Happy birthday Chinese Democracy!

FlashFlood

5 years old today...

Still love the album, but wow. 5 years and still the touring the hits with literally no sign of ever releasing music again. What's the opposite of prolific?

Me_Wise_Magic

Can't believe it's been that long. I still love the album as well. It's awesome and the songs still hold up really well. It's a shame a new single, EP or new anything besides shows have happened after the release. bumblefoot recently showed a Better tribute vid from several fans from Brazil and I thought that was pretty cool. The facebook comments for the album's anniversary are divided or similar as always.

James

To be fair to Axl for a nanosecond, 5 years is about the average wait between new releases from major bands(Metallica, U2, Stones,etc.). Having said that, this was different. Massive wait with supposedly 2 or 3 albums in the can. Releases an album of leaks with terrible production, then does a 180 and becomes a nostalgia act with NOTHING in sight. Very confusing. Spends years talking about burying the old band and starting over and here we are about to head into 2014. I'm not surprised in the least that hardcores have started walking away.

apex-twin

With the release (and aftermath) of CD, Axl's wings were cut off. The story along the grapevines goes that while Azoff had his sights ultimately on an old Guns reunion, he was set to accommodate Axl in return, with two follow-up albums on around two-year cycles, leading up to a reunion at RRHOF. This would've given Axl a break to do his own thing with the new lineup, with the new music finally out in the open. After that, he would've reverted to the nostalgia thing for a while. The audiences would've been happy, Uni would've cashed in on the new additions to the back catalogue, and Azoff would've personally seen a lucrative income, using his position at Ticketmaster to facilitate Guns' touring stateside.

It was to be a great, great pipe and slippers deal for Axl, and much better than anyone in the industry would've guessed he'd be entitled with after the clusterfuck which bore CD. His career would've been rebuilt from scratch in the public eye; going from a hugely profilic lone gun to a full-blown reunion in a matter of years, parading past rows of former naysayers and collectively smacking them across their faces. An ongoing victory march, if there ever was one. That is said to be the deal Axl walked away from. If he'd be friends with Slash, one could say it was all about integrity. But his personal obsession proved too tough a nut to crack, even for an industry ballbuster like Azoff.

With Azoff out of the picture, Guns lost their rejuvenated life-line with Uni, and have had to resort to touring to keep money coming in. During the non-eventful year following CD, during which Ax only seemed to pop up to berate Jimmy Iovine and Slash, he gained weight - no longer the lean and mean middle-aged rock star pro (in figure, at least), but more akin to someone boozing and eating to tolerate depression.

Axl's always been reactionary on his looks; people called him fat while he openly displayed a paunch next to some serious muscle in RIR3. The next year, he showed up covered in those oversized jerseys. The braids he put on were snickered at as having to do with hair loss; this may well be the case, but again, make no mistake, the reactions he got were a blow to his self-esteem. Only in 2006 did he regain that trademark vigor again, looking proudly ablebodied, with the braids much diminished. This went on for over a year, he was ready to reconquer the world and felt dedicated to maintain his physical health in the meantime.

After CD, he gave up. One year after another, he gave up more. The 06/07 Axl would scare the living daylights out of the current Vince Neil. Not so much now. Personally, I'm less fazed by Axl's fashion sense (or lack thereof - kilts!) than his physical condition, as it directly correlates with his performance on stage and his longevity as a touring musician. That line of work is hard, and he tends to put more into it than many of his peers. Without a health regimen, it's painfully obvious that touring becomes all the more strenuous to him as time goes on.

In early 2010, just as the band had started out their post-Azoff phase (and the NeverEnding Tour), some signs of things to come were there.

NY Post wrote:

Rose’s recent high jinks are legendary even where rockers are concerned. For the last three weeks, the singer has been on an epic bender in New York, tearing through the city’s nightclubs and bars like he’s still the stick-thin 25-year-old who became a worldwide phenomenon after the release of his album “Appetite for Destruction.” Since he arrived in the city for his Fashion Week concert on Feb. 11, he’s gone out nearly every night (and continued on till the morning), usually crashing afterward at his $1,550-a-night suite in the Essex House Hotel.
... author Ray LeMoine who’s partied with the rocker in the past three weeks... thinks Rose lets the negative press get to him more that he should. “The interesting thing about the guy is that he’ll tell stories and you’ll say, ‘Dude, you’re Axl Rose, you’ve got to not worry about that s – - t,’ “ LeMoine says. “You’ve put out so many great records and you’re the man, but he won’t hear it … there’s a nuanced psychological thing about the guy where he’s not trying to be Axl Rose.”
So far, no one knows when the party — or his existential crisis — will end. As Rose prepared to leave one club, The Post cornered him and asked how late he generally stays out. Rose just smirked. “As long as it takes,” he said. - NY Post"

Alas, Happy Birthday to Chinese Democracy. We're still checking the program listings on that same Bat Channel to see if we get anything but reruns. One day...

NY Post wrote:

Another person who’s partied with Rose says he’s working on a new album after last year’s disappointing “Chinese Democracy” — the first Guns N’ Roses studio album in 15 years — and has something to prove.

Smoking Guns

I can't believe we celebrate album bdays. We are pathetic.

PaSnow

Saw a funny Axl reference in a documentary for Tribe Called Quest. It was on Crackle which is on my Roku box, and I think myb smart TV's. Anyway they were talking about the main singer, emcee Q-Tip and how he's a perfectionist. He'd lay down vocals on Monday & by Wednesday say "Nahhh, that ain't good. Lemme redo them". After a while the producers & bandmates would have to say to him it's ok, it's really good. Then the one member says "Yeah, he'd be like Guns N Roses if we didn't step in. Wait 14 years for an album or whatever."

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1613023/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

Olorin

I've been listening to it recently again for the first time in ages... I really like it still, but I cant help but feel its one song too long.

Axlin16

apex-twin wrote:

With the release (and aftermath) of CD, Axl's wings were cut off. The story along the grapevines goes that while Azoff had his sights ultimately on an old Guns reunion, he was set to accommodate Axl in return, with two follow-up albums on around two-year cycles, leading up to a reunion at RRHOF. This would've given Axl a break to do his own thing with the new lineup, with the new music finally out in the open. After that, he would've reverted to the nostalgia thing for a while. The audiences would've been happy, Uni would've cashed in on the new additions to the back catalogue, and Azoff would've personally seen a lucrative income, using his position at Ticketmaster to facilitate Guns' touring stateside.
It was to be a great, great pipe and slippers deal for Axl, and much better than anyone in the industry would've guessed he'd be entitled with after the clusterfuck which bore CD. His career would've been rebuilt from scratch in the public eye; going from a hugely profilic lone gun to a full-blown reunion in a matter of years, parading past rows of former naysayers and collectively smacking them across their faces. An ongoing victory march, if there ever was one. That is said to be the deal Axl walked away from. If he'd be friends with Slash, one could say it was all about integrity. But his personal obsession proved too tough a nut to crack, even for an industry ballbuster like Azoff.
With Azoff out of the picture, Guns lost their rejuvenated life-line with Uni, and have had to resort to touring to keep money coming in. During the non-eventful year following CD, during which Ax only seemed to pop up to berate Jimmy Iovine and Slash, he gained weight - no longer the lean and mean middle-aged rock star pro (in figure, at least), but more akin to someone boozing and eating to tolerate depression.
Axl's always been reactionary on his looks; people called him fat while he openly displayed a paunch next to some serious muscle in RIR3. The next year, he showed up covered in those oversized jerseys. The braids he put on were snickered at as having to do with hair loss; this may well be the case, but again, make no mistake, the reactions he got were a blow to his self-esteem. Only in 2006 did he regain that trademark vigor again, looking proudly ablebodied, with the braids much diminished. This went on for over a year, he was ready to reconquer the world and felt dedicated to maintain his physical health in the meantime.
After CD, he gave up. One year after another, he gave up more. The 06/07 Axl would scare the living daylights out of the current Vince Neil. Not so much now. Personally, I'm less fazed by Axl's fashion sense (or lack thereof - kilts!) than his physical condition, as it directly correlates with his performance on stage and his longevity as a touring musician. That line of work is hard, and he tends to put more into it than many of his peers. Without a health regimen, it's painfully obvious that touring becomes all the more strenuous to him as time goes on.
In early 2010, just as the band had started out their post-Azoff phase (and the NeverEnding Tour), some signs of things to come were there.
NY Post wrote:
Rose’s recent high jinks are legendary even where rockers are concerned. For the last three weeks, the singer has been on an epic bender in New York, tearing through the city’s nightclubs and bars like he’s still the stick-thin 25-year-old who became a worldwide phenomenon after the release of his album “Appetite for Destruction.” Since he arrived in the city for his Fashion Week concert on Feb. 11, he’s gone out nearly every night (and continued on till the morning), usually crashing afterward at his $1,550-a-night suite in the Essex House Hotel.
... author Ray LeMoine who’s partied with the rocker in the past three weeks... thinks Rose lets the negative press get to him more that he should. “The interesting thing about the guy is that he’ll tell stories and you’ll say, ‘Dude, you’re Axl Rose, you’ve got to not worry about that s – - t,’ “ LeMoine says. “You’ve put out so many great records and you’re the man, but he won’t hear it … there’s a nuanced psychological thing about the guy where he’s not trying to be Axl Rose.”
So far, no one knows when the party — or his existential crisis — will end. As Rose prepared to leave one club, The Post cornered him and asked how late he generally stays out. Rose just smirked. “As long as it takes,” he said. - NY Post"

Alas, Happy Birthday to Chinese Democracy. We're still checking the program listings on that same Bat Channel to see if we get anything but reruns. One day...
NY Post wrote:
Another person who’s partied with Rose says he’s working on a new album after last year’s disappointing “Chinese Democracy” — the first Guns N’ Roses studio album in 15 years — and has something to prove.

This is a fascinating post, that my reply should probably exist more in that religious trilogy thread, instead of here.

I wonder sometimes if GN'R got bigger than even Axl ever expected or wanted to admit to. I wonder if he didn't want to admit to "Izzy syndrome", thinking GN'R might be a great club band. I remember Mick Wall partying with the guys and claiming that when the band got the news that AFD had cracked the Billboard Top-100 albums, that band was ecstatic. That strikes me of 5 very humbled guys that were living the dream, and not really worried about being the next Rolling Stones.

But Axl took it in stride (if you call stuffing Uzi's under your pillow, fucking your fiance and then leaving her in the closet, and pushing pianos off of balcony's "in stride" -- but where Axlin comes from that's "in stride").. in Axl's world being Queen, might not be a bad thing, so he went with it. And it got bigger, and bigger, and BIGGER. Suddenly within only 2-3 years, he's playing alongside his idols from only maybe 10 years post his childhood. It had to be overwhelming for him. I know even at my age, if within a year I was doing dueling screams alongside even the Axl of today, I would be completely lost and overwhelmed.

I know Sky Dog tries to simply it as "Axl's crazy", but I don't think he's near as crazy as he's reputed to be. I think the guy FEELS EVERY-THING. I don't think he knows what to do with it, and I don't see him as a "poor me" type, as more of a "he's his biggest critic" type, which is why his perfectionism breeds paralysis.

Another thing on Axl's plate, and this is why I love him, he doesn't do this shit "without a good goddamn reason" (to quote a famous sequel). Axl waited so long to get his mind together, that the industry changed and died in the same time.

Axl might've said what he wanted to say with Chinese, and that's it. What else does he have to say? Axl is strictly a reactionary writer. From his emotionally damaging childhood, to his issues with authority and women and religion, to his ultimate disillusion with the business and the world, which leaded into his words on Chinese. Look inside the album, and you'll find words that could be prophetic to a final swan song from Axl, maybe even a goodbye. "There's nothing more that I can do"

And that leads into his physical decline. People just look at it as "Axl's gettin' after it", wooo party, let's drink, because we have a bunch of Rock fans on here that are drunks or whatever. But let's be honest... if Axl was on any other substance other than alcohol, people would be alarmed. He looks like a guy that's stopped caring. Yes people age, but unless he had major blood pressure issues, his bloat is getting a bit Duff-like.

I feel bad for the guy.

When he cared about being a good son, he got beat.
When he cared about religion/spirituality, it criticized him and molested his family.
When he cared about being a better husband (post-Erin) or a good dad, he either screwed it up himself, or was denied to him.
When he cared about Guns N' Roses, it blew up in his face, and everyone tried to take it from him (in his mind)
Everyone hates him, when he made decisions he thought was best.
Any decision he makes, even the right ones for the fans, get denied because of legal wrangling, and he gets blamed
The media still continues to hate him because he refuses to play the game or understand his point of view

Everything that he seemed to love or have a passion for, has either died or been taken from him. I don't think this is a guy that picks up 19-20 year old hookers because that's what he wanted for his life. Whomever, or whatever he loved... seems gone. Look at the personality change in Slash & Duff with their wife and kids, and think of Axl in that very short period with Stephanie & Dylan and how much his personality was different during that short period.

And that's the positive point of view. In the negative point of view, it's even worse. He could be the cause of all of his destruction, and if that's the case, i'm surprised he hasn't offed himself by now.

The guy is still an emotional, passionate, idealistic, spiritual, living breathing human being... BEFORE being Axl Rose. But he can't escape the character of Axl Rose. Could you imagine being something that required you be the same person you were 20-25 years ago FOREVER, and you have no choice?

Now the business has changed so much, and is SO commercial, that now he's required to be something he has utterly no interest in being. The future did not turn out the way I think he, or any of us, foresaw the business turning in to literal corporate sludge. The fact that Katy Perry & Taylor Swift will be considered the artists of a generation is like proof positive of how little interest Axl probably has in continuing.

"What would you do if I told you I loved you, then walked away?"

If Axl had something to walk away to, I think he'd be long gone imo. But he doesn't seem like a guy that truely has something to walk away to, so he keeps the light on with Guns N' Roses, because that's truely all he's got. He hates being "Axl Rose", but all he has is this thing -- "Axl Rose".

I think at one time had the business locked in around 1995 or 2000 and stayed the same, Axl would've been willing to play the character again, but legal issues and more disillusion... we lost him for good.

At this point I don't see why Axl would want to do anything anymore. This is of course ALL SPECULATIVE, but he strikes me as a depressed guy, but partying because "i'm Axl Rose and I love it", but partying to pass the time, trying to find a reason. Where's the emotional outlet? Where's the artistic outlet? Where's the personal outlet? He can't do any of it. Wherever he goes, he's Axl Rose. Whoever he meets, he's Axl Rose. Now he's older on top of it, and the game has changed, yet everything has stayed the same. If it can go wrong, it does go wrong.

I think if he were to have anything left in him at this point lyrically, he's be writing Mad Season records.

johndivney

tl;dr

it was an interesting post by a-t tho..

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