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Re: Here we go again, the future of GNR Evo...
Been quiet here lately, what with us being offline for a few weeks, but right before the site went down I'd started to fuck about with the code yet again to see how Evo could be improved. I had a few ideas, and the staff threw some ideas in the hat too, but let's hear what you guys actually want from this site going forward 
Let's see if we can find some kind of direction instead of drifting aimlessly as we have been for the last 6-12 months.
Eg:-
Do you want a homepage? What should be on it?
Should the forums be readable to "members only"?
If we wanted to expand the often overlooked Band/Songs/Discs sections of the site would you be willing to contribute an hour here and there to help us?
Should we merge the GNR and Ex-GNR forums? Should we also merge the GNR Downloads forum in there and just have one big GNR forum?
Should we merge all of the off-topic forums into one forum, or do you think we need more sections for stuff like memoribilia trading etc?
Do you want us to actively promote Evo, or should we shut down new registrations completely and have ourselves a private forum?
Do we need to be more active on social media?
Not expecting point by point answers guys. Just tell us what you want from Evo going forward. If you like it exactly the way it is that's cool, or if you have some crazy balls-hard-to-program feature request then speak up.
If the only thing you want is for certain banned members to be reinstated then there's a discussion about that going on in The Garden.
- Me_Wise_Magic
- Rep: 70
Re: Here we go again, the future of GNR Evo...
From what I've seen during my time in this forum, I think it would be much more convenient into organizing the separate GNR threads into a big one like you suggested Will. I like that idea. Being more active on social media such as a official forum facebook page and updating twitter; so we all have more ways to chat if something happens with the threads.
I don't think we need to shut down new recruits. Always have an open home for music fans. Who knows we might get some new members you will add more content, discussion, and ideas. Never hurts. Just the spammers and in fighting has to cease. That I completely agree. I'm happy to have new people to talk to as well as chatting with current members in this community.
The home page with the song of the week is still a great concept and maybe put a few of the guidelines in bullets in the right side edge of the home page; so people know the rules first and foremost.
Customizing the logo to show a few more band members and some of the background design to appeal to new members and give it a fresh coat of paint can be a future idea to try later on.
Hope these help you Will. Thanks for doing so much to keeping this site functioning properly.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Here we go again, the future of GNR Evo...
I've been thinking a lot about what's happened to this place in recent years, and I know some of you put loads of effort into making it a great experience, and it's given a lot to my hobbies over the years too...so this is what I think.
I've tried to be 100% honest and uncensored, and I hope no-one takes anything personally...I really like all you guys - i'm just saying this stuff to try and be helpful.
These are my suggestions to move EVO forward, some of it does deal a little with historical dramas, so I apologise if it's in the wrong thread...but to me I think this is a chance to improve things for everyone.
1. Content
We need to find a way to increase content.
I’m as to blame as anyone else in terms of not starting threads or whatever…but I think it’s notable how much the discussion level has died in the last 5 years or so. Some of it is Russ leaving of course, but I think there’s more to it than just that.
Some of it is also GNR being in a rutt for years, and there’s a natural ebb and flow to things, but I feel we’re really getting to rock bottom in recent months. Things happen in the scene and none of us comment, there’s very little discussion going on.
Not entirely sure how to address that – perhaps we work at getting fresh blood, perhaps look at expanding the forum’s parameters to wider but related things – like hard rock in general or something?
On one hand this place has a family vibe due to not being flooded with tons of members which is cool, on the other, I feel like a large part of the family has moved on and there’s a real need for new blood.
While the site was down I’ve been at mygnr – and it looks like evo did in 2006 in terms of activity and liveliness. I prefer the friendly faces here I know...but to be honest Ashba could die and i'm not sure I'd read about it here...I'm worried we're dying.
2. Internal Politics and Management.
I don’t mean this disrespectfully as I know you guys put in a lot of work but I wonder if it’s time to review the way this place runs.
How many active posters did we even have last month – it feels like the same 6-7 guys posting – and there’s as many on staff…sometimes it just seems like it’s a ship with all captains and no crew.
If I don’t like something who do I even ask? Will because he can code it to make it happen? Neemo because he’s the admin? BLS because he seems to do a lot of the moderation? Aussie because he’s my local rep? Pollex cos he likes the new band? APE cos he isn’t one of the others, or James cos he’s a founder? Or someone else? I love you guys…I’m just saying…it’s a little odd.
How does it even work? You guys vote? Or do some of you overrule others? I honestly don’t know…but it seems there’s not a lot of agreement on things going on.
Seems like a lot of the “fights” that occurred in the place over the years (going right back to Roses of Velvet) have a political component and there’s always more going on behind the scenes.
And why is there even a behind the scenes anyway? I mean we’re a group of folks with similar musical interests chatting about life and shit we like. Is it really necessary for groups of us to get together in private to decide things on how to make it better for the 5-6 people who aren't mods?
Your call. But I wonder if there was no private staff area – if everyone was just public about what they think on an issue then if when people are banned and similar things then general users could see the process and there would be less of the feeling of power struggles, secrecy and deal making.
For example: Why did Russ actually leave? Was it Bono’s actual insults? Or was it that he didn’t like when some forum users like me questioned his decision in chat ? Was it that he read my PM messages and didn’t like what he saw there from some mods? Was it that he felt the rest of the mods didn’t have his back?
That's why he and Bono are co-existing at my GNR right now. The actual troll vs non-troll part was just the catalyst – the problem was the wider way this place runs.
It’s a “he said she said” thing about ultimatums (or not) and who supported who on what decision. Pointless politics we don’t need to have and that have destroyed this forum’s mood.
Look at the fight Buzz got into with me – because he was told by a reliable source that my PM’s contain secret plots or whatever. It’s time this whole thing was made more public so everyone can just be friends and hang out and chat about shit and there doesn’t need to be politics and secrecy and power struggles and people acting one way in public but saying something else privately.
3. Codify the way Bans work.
Once that Bono thing came up I noticed people on all sides talking about others who were banned harshly or people that should have been banned but never were and similar disputes.
Maybe it’s time to review the process? Perhaps set out an actual document that says what you have to do to get banned, how warnings will work, how many mods have to agree for a ban to be permanent and so on.
Once these rules are clear then it will be straight forward to see when things are being abused and when they aren't.
I know this place is founded on the principle of “equal posts” too but I also think we could review what tolerance is given just for occasional bad days.
For example – Will banned a few people harshly yesterday and now recants it – you wouldn’t say he’s a bad mod for that because it’s one incident in 5 years. Likewise when looking at posters if they post thousands of times sure occasionally some of it is going to be obnoxious – no one is always in a good mood but those days have to be taken in the context of the good days too.
4. consider an amnesty.
If we were to formalize the process – why not also start over? There seems to be a lot of bad blood about previous decisions from all sorts of factions and camps. And the endless investigation into who did what is getting absurd – how many years will it derail the forum?
In 2014 will we still be asking if Russ gave an ultimatum, what was in Monkey’s PMs and who said what when.
I notice myGnr seems to have a “returned” membership class of people who were previously banned but have been given a second chance.
I wonder if something like this could be implemented here?
My suggestion: Remove EVERY ban on anyone – not just bono – and start over – we’ll forgive the wrongs of the past on all sides – then run the place with a codified system for what happens if someone does something wrong.
The people that are trolls will soon show themselves for what they are and can be removed once again free from the politics of behind the curtain and we can finally put decisions made in the past to bed.
I also think this could improve numbers – as there’s probably people who were once annoying around who have since grown up.
Like how buzz says himself he used to be anti the band and these days has changed the way he posts. I wonder if maybe we could look into people who were banned for something childish they did once upon a time to be given another lease of life.
End of the day we all have more in common than against each other I think.
And if people are fuckwits then by all means stamp on them. But if there’s bad feeling about the past this would be a way to move on – maybe even give returned people one less chance than non-returned people or something.
But I don’t think it’s easy to move forward when people are blaming each other for an admin leaving and for the loss of varous posters and so on.
5. Will’s specifics.
Personally I’d merge GNR-exGNR-and Downloads all into one giant GNR related forum.
Lets face it – modern GNR goes long periods of time without much happening – and to me the side projects of Izzy and Slash are relevant cos they used to be in GNR, and something like Sixx AM or Dead Daisies is relevant cos it features people who are in GNR.
I don’t think enough happens to warrant separate sections and I don’t think any of us will be too confused. We all know that bucket isn’t in the band and slash isn’t and bumble is…might as well just have one giant roasting pot for anyting with any gnr-related content old or new as far as I’m concerned.
Then we could look into developing discussions about more than just GNR too…because we all like some form of GNR we probably have a lot in common in life and it’s fun to look into what else we all like and so on.
Anyway I'm sorry if this post has just made ALL the admins hate me, I really like you guys and this site, but that's how I see things, so I've tried to be honest about what I think in a "tough love" kinda way...but there's no hard feelings from my end.
- Me_Wise_Magic
- Rep: 70
Re: Here we go again, the future of GNR Evo...
Thank you both for the detailed responses
Sounds good dude!
Re: Here we go again, the future of GNR Evo...
I agree with a lot of what Monkey said. When I first came to RoV, the place had a really chilled atmosphere. Not as insane as mygnr, and not as hardline or nutswinging as htgth. That's what appealed to me, so it'd be good to somehow get back to that again.
I lurked for ages, but there was so much good content back then, fuelled by speculation, mystery, etc that by the time I read a whole thread, my time was up and I usually had to go do something else. I'm not a great poster anyway, I don't like getting in spats, find it hard to get my point across etc....but thats my issue, not the point here.
My point is, that things seemed to get a bit skewed the last couple of years, and then pretty tense in the past 6 months. Quite a drama. The general state of GnR is, I think, to blame, as there is no news, none of any real value anyway, and no mystery to speculate on any more. But still, It would be great to somehow get back to that chilled atmosphere again.
I would agree with lumping all the GnR sub forums into one. Trimming it down may garner more activity, as you wouldnt need to flip through a few sections to see whats new. I would also keep membership open to new people, there's few people posting now, so new contributors would be good.
Maybe trim down some of the other sub forums too, I dont get into those too often, because of the lack of time, but maybe that could be done to freshen things up too.
Anyways, glad to see you back. I've missed it.
Re: Here we go again, the future of GNR Evo...
I like the place, rooted around the internet to find out what happened.
I think the lack of activity on the forum is because the band is pretty non-functional and in a rut themselve.s
I'd also like less moderation, it's amusing to watch people act like asses.
Re: Here we go again, the future of GNR Evo...
I'd like to see the old and new GNR sections merged, but wouldnt it get a bit messy merging the download section as well? Also if theres no line in the sand drawn wouldnt the section become dominated with Slash's solo career? Mabye having a all encompassing Guns N'Roses section for old and new, but keep a side projects forum for solo careers is better.
I dunno about merging any of the other sections, I think they are separated well enough.
I think it would be a bad idea to make it readable to members only, that would be the death knell, aas would stopping new registrations.
I dunno about the social media aspect either, I think most folk like the privacy of using a music forum, as opposed to the way facebook is nowadays where you cant even fart without it flashing across every fuck and their dogs computer screen. Facebook pretty much lost me when they brought out that ticker thing, totally ruined it for me.
Its hard to see where the forum goes from here, in the long term I can see all the smaller ones dwindling away and eventually MyGnr being the only one left, mabye its already happened. I'm glad I got to experience the heyday of GNR forums when there where umpteen with a variety of discussion, the internet was new to most folk and there was a few generations who grew up with GNR and then got introduced to the internet and lapped up the chance to chew the fat and download unheard and unknown bootlegs of their favorite band. First thing I ever typed into a search engine was Guns N'Roses. (remember that horticulture 44 gnr something or other lol?) Now we're all older with less time to spare, and more importantly all the discussions are old. Theres nothing out there that I havnt read a million times or I myself have said to death, and I know thats how most of the forum veterans feel also. Any new kids coming through with a passion for GNR arent going to migrate to the smaller little used forums, they're going to head to the biggest and most active one out there. Theres not even a htgth anymore to compete with mygnr, thats as much of a ghost town as GNREvo.
The only thing that will truly give a shot in the arm to the forum is a new album... I dont even have a glimmer of hope and dont even care a jot anymore, I'm deeply uninterested nowadays. I'm right back in to original GNR though, thats where any passion I have now lies, thats why I think merging the old and new sections is a great idea!
Re: Here we go again, the future of GNR Evo...
Also can you make posting youtube links easier so you can just copy and paste the whole link into the youtube brackets, instead of having to delete the www.blahdeblah part of the link?
