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- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: U2 Producer tells Axl story
One issue then is who is doing the negotiations I'd suggest.
Lets be real: Record companies are cut throat corporations with their own agenda - be it profit this quarter or whatever.
And if we're honest - from the label's POV there's some challenges associated here: it's not the original GNR, it rumoured to not even be the same genre of music as the original GNR, their profit margins have collapsed in the past decade....and the models for profit vs costs are entirely different these days.
The skill in music business though is negotiating a scenario where everyone wins. Where Axl gets his artistic statement out and fair value for his efforts, but where the label recoups costs associated with their end of things and their level of risk involvement in production.
This is where I think the organisation has issues....on one hand I guess Axl thinks he can trust guys like Fernando and so on because they're basically like family to him....but on the other hand....you have to ask even if their intentions are perfect...do they have the business acumen, and experience and skills necessary to broker talks of this magnitude and find solutions that are good for everyone.
I'm not bagging team brazil as such, I'm just saying in the past guys like Niven or whatever...they've been around the business and they know how to make it work and how to talk to label guys in their own language and how to find these solutions that cause everyone to win....but I'm not entirely sure he current management is as well versed in business mindset.
Re: U2 Producer tells Axl story
It's more than that. Axl handed in a record in 2010 that the label sat on for unknown reasons. Guesses range from being afraid of the fast timeframe he wanted it released in ("same bat time..."), to anger over the promotion for CD, to not wanting tolay out the $ for promotion.
This shit blew my mind when I found out about it but it comes from MSL, whose info I trust.
Never heard that either. Any more detail?
Re: U2 Producer tells Axl story
That's about all I know. I just learned about it this week myself. He had supposedly turned in the album and wanted it released a few months later and the label balked. MSL talks about it a bit on his board. It may have been part of the set of leaked band info that he got awhile back but he doesn't go into deep detail due to the sensitivity of the contents.
I believe him, and it sheds a whole new light on Axl and his plans and why we don't have more music.
They would have been touring both albums together by now.... Imagine that?
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: U2 Producer tells Axl story
Interesting....wonder what was asked of the label that they'd rather shelve it? Tried to get a commitment to too much promo?
- metallex78
- Rep: 194
Re: U2 Producer tells Axl story
If that 2010 stuff is true, I guess I have to give Axl more credit, if he actually did have intentions of releasing new music.
But 3 years down the track, and still no sign of a new album, I'm suspicious about those claims.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: U2 Producer tells Axl story
I'd take this version of MSL with a few grants of salt.
Why? Just because MSL publicly blackmailed the band with a whole lot of stolen info, claimed to have the whole second album while asking to trade it for unheard songs, then missed his own deadlines to make good on any of his threats, then reappeared shortly after and changed his long term posting politics from questioning/demanding stuff from GNR to violently posting in a pro-axl/anti-slash model?
Why would that be a cause of concern? I suppose you also think Jarmo was made an assistant photographer to the band as a reward for his censorship of HTGTH and not because his photos are that damn good. Damn paranoid GNR fans.
/sarcasm
Re: U2 Producer tells Axl story
If Axl already handed in the album and there is actually problems with negotiating, a lot of posters would have to give up the "Axl is just sitting on his ass refusing to release a new record" line, which I guess would be hard to swallow. 
MSL did exaggerate some stuff, but I don't recall him outright lying. He did have real info and real song titles no one had ever heard about. No salt needed for me.
Re: U2 Producer tells Axl story
MSL's Cliffsnotes on the second album. He's posted about it in dribs and drabs, so I merged a bunch of his posts.
If the next album had come out in 2010, it would have been called: GUNS N' ROSES.
The plan at one point was to release "Chinese Democracy" when they did and then release another new album a year or two later. Best Buy would have had the exclusive on the second album as well. I'm not sure if their rights to the next album expire at some point or if they had an option they could decline. But when Axl hinted at another album at the same time and place one year after Chinese, that is what he was referring to.
Obviously we did not get another album in November 2009. The band hadn't even hit the road yet to promote Chinese. Plans change based on market conditions, response to previous product, etc. So just because the plan at one point was to release two albums one year or two years apart doesn't mean over time that it might become clear that other plans have greater potential.
Had the label released a new album in the Summer of 2010, the subsequent touring would have been in support of BOTH albums. We've seen bands do this many times. Some examples from contemporary acts would be Metallica's Load & ReLoad, Radiohead's Kid A & Amnesiac, System of a Down's Mezmerize & Hypnotize, etc.
UMG chose for whatever reason to not release another album in 2010. They may have been caught off guard and didn't want to release it on short notice. They may have felt that the band still had to prove themselves by promoting Chinese before they would consider another album.
Axl has many options as far as how much material he wants to release with origins from the Buckethead days compared to how much material he wants to release with origins from recent years. Do you use some material from each? That's for him to decide. Had the 2010 album released, it would have been material that was ready to go before the 2008 album. For whatever reason, it didn't happen. So back to the drawing board you go. Whatever album we get in 2014 or beyond may have some of those songs or a lot of those songs. I don't know.
Artists are often whimsical in nature. He may have woken up one day and said fuck it, let's clear the vault and get that shit out in time for Reading. When he was told no, it's too soon, he may have been very upset. We know he quit the band and asked for all tour dates to be cancelled. He's a very emotional guy. He obviously has people in his life that care about him and encouraged him to change his mind. I'm glad they did because GNR is riding high right now and I think with some more luck, the next record has a chance at some level of mainstream acceptance.
I wish we as a community could move away from the "cd2" concept. Most of the songs were written after the songs on Chinese. Yes, many of them were worked on before Chinese was released, but it's not a sequel. It's its own album. neither (CD or the other one) is the left overs of the other. they are different albums. yes a few songs may have switched back and forth, but for the most part they were written during different periods.
Would make sense that stuff written in 02-06 would be stronger than 97-01. Imagine everything Axl was going through trying to rebuild the band, trying to make a record with no direction. I thought Chinese was great, but it would make sense the stuff written later in the sessions would be some of the strongest stuff.
