You are not logged in. Please register or login.
- Topics: Active | Unanswered
Pages: 1
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Fandom and Negativity and the Internet
I've become interested in something of late.
Is the nature or being interested in something in the internet era also partially to hate it?
We all know what the GNR community is like, there's the censorship over at HTGTH, then what I'm told is a troll fest at mygnr...and then over here we've had our debates with some users being more positive than others.
I'd always put it down to GNR's history. I mean you replace a band. Twice. You mess with the genre a little. You have a few riots. You add in a 15 year stretch of silence. People get butt-hurt.
But then I'm noticing some of the same things in other circles too. Most metallica fans seem to hate lars these days - either his internet views or his drumming!
And I came across this article by accident about how negativity is "killing" pro-wrestling.....
What is wrong with fans today?
Every where I go, old school wrestling, new school, WWE fans, TNA fans, Ring of Honor fans, it's all the same. Negative, negative, negative.
Now our page ascribes to an approach to wrestling that brings about the more intelligent wrestling fans. It's not deliberate, but that's way we've come, so when I say this, I"m not saying this at all of you (well, a few of you this would fit) because most of you are the opposite of what I'm about to point out.
If you really wanna know what's good in wrestling, all you have to do is see what the fans hate for a shorter amount of time. Take Punk vs Taker, now right now the reaction on the internet is positive. But I was on the net when it had just happened, there were people going "Fuck Taker, fuck Punk, fuck McMahon." Wrestling fans today will bury not just anything, but down right everything. Now, some of that crap needs to buried, but still...
But who do I blame? As much as I'd like to, it's not just the fans, or even the WWE, but they are by no means innocent. I blame the Dirt Sheets. These people have created this negative atmosphere. Not a day goes by, even on this page with our much more positive fan base than most, that someone isn't hating something posted. If I post about Bret Hart, someone will say "Fuck Bret Hart" if I post about his opponent HBK, someone will say "Fuck HBK." It's the way it is, only the Undertaker, and only generally speaking at that, seems to go above that.
It's the dirt sheets, ever since they became prominent in the 90s and became read by more than just a select few in the wrestling world, it's been increasingly negative. You know why? Because they tell you that it's bad. They told you that the attitude era was bad. They said the NWO was bad, enough people over looked it then for various reasons, but it's what it is.
Even more official types like Dave Meltzer, tells you most of wrestling is bad. He says, Bret Hart had a great match with Owen, and HBK had a great match with Undertaker, but everything else sucked. He said the majority of the attitude era sucks. Not only that, but all these dirt sheets, and other groups went back and said "You know what... Hulk Hogan sucks. Hogan's matches during the 80s sucked."
Now our heroes withstood it because we were fans before we were told they sucked. Even Austin became big before enough people read the dirt sheets.
Is it really the fault of the internet wrestling fan? I don't know... we've been trained for the last 15 years that everything was terrible (BTW, with the exception of Taker's matches with Shawn Michaels, they've consistently buried Undertaker since 1998)
Even the stuff that was good... is terrible. That's what we've been taught by the wrestling dirt sheets.
We, the negative wrestling fan, are killing wrestling. The Negativity is eating wrestling like an all you can eat buffet for Homer Simpson. We've got to shake off the negativity (and I'm not saying LOVE everything in wrestling) and stop reading the dirt sheets.
You've gotta to learn to love wrestling, and again, not limiting it to current content, but wrestling in general. Go back, and watch your favorite match from 1997, and stop worrying about what that guy did wrong, or what politics was going on at the time, and just enjoy the match.
Negativity will be the death of wrestling if it continues to get worse. Just saying.
~David
You know me i'm always about the freedom so I'm not about to say anyone shouldn't post whatever - but it's got me wondering if this thing goes beyond GNR....and what does it mean to be a fan these days....movie geeks seem to hate the movies....comic geeks think the new comics suck.....everyone only likes most bands early albums.....
I know this first hand as I love modern megadeth...but anyone you meet ever likes the old stuff only..
Does anyone actually like stuff anymore? Or are we all just couch quaterbacks who think we could do better? Or more weirdly - is the nature of engaging with stuff these days to actually kinda hate what you love too?
- metallex78
- Rep: 194
Re: Fandom and Negativity and the Internet
Great topic of discussion monkey!
The internet is weird in that people seem to be more motivated to post about something they don't like, rather than what they do like.
And given the easy access to information and news, about anything and everything, and it being at our fingertips from the comfort of our own computer desks, it seems as though EVERYONE has an opinion. And everyone feels they can voice that opinion because the internet also gives us somewhat of an anonymity too.
And maybe the age groups that are posting in places like this forum, (although certainly not pointing any fingers at anyone here, as this board is great for civil music convo) also have a tendency of clinging to nostalgia of the music and time we grew up with it.
I still look back on the late 80's and particularly the early 90's as amazing times, because I was in my youth, care free, and discovering rock n roll.
It's most probably because we tend to store good memories, from those days. When in reality, my high school days weren't really the best years of my life, but I tend to remember the good times from then anyway, and see it in a different light now.
Who knows, maybe that's just human nature, because my parents reminisce about their old music too.
So yeah, while I do appreciate new music, and new bands, and enjoying new concerts etc, in my mind it will never quite match those times.
I've often wondered about this internet "hate" thing too.
Just go onto blabbermouth.net, and you'll see nearly every news item has negativity about every single band. And it makes me wonder, does anyone ever have anything GOOD to say?
Re: Fandom and Negativity and the Internet
Besides the ability to post your thoughts to 1000's of people instantaneously, the second most major change as I see it is just the pure access we have to our "heroes" nowadays. I was completely unthought of when I was growing up to be able to get a message straight to a musician the way you can today, and in many cases, to actually get a response back. It used to be all the info you got was through reading magazines, and writing fan mail that you might as well save the stamp on and just crumple up and throw away.
Re: Fandom and Negativity and the Internet
Great topic.
Take when you go for a meal as an example, when you dislike the restaurant, you're more likely to mention that it was rubbish to a higher number of people, than if you had a good experience. 'Oh dont go to such and such a place, it was awful, the waiter was a jerk, the food was rubbish and expensive'. It's almost as if you feel hard done by, by the experience, so rant about it.
I have thought about this alot over the past couple of years, with GnR and other bands in mind. The internet gives us unprecedented access to the guys in bands we love. We see almost too much. Before, back in the day, you'd read a bit about them in a magazine, see some very small interviews on MTV or whatever, and that was it. There was a detachment which made them seem cooler that they actually probably were as people, a bit of mystery thrown in too. The music did the talking, and was always first.
Now, with alot of these guys you get every thought blurted on twitter, multiple interviews a week, youtube footage of them being a dick etc etc.
Take Sebastian Bach for instance, back in the day he was the cool looking dude in the photo's, sounded great on the records, was awesome live and that was it. Now, if you follow blabbermouth you'll see an interview a day, and you realise he is a bit of a dick. The mystery has gone, that guy you thought was cool, actually, would probably really get on your nerves if you spent an evening with him.
Dave Mustaine, jesus, shut up already.
So, yes internet makes it easier to be negative, but its because we are exposed to more of what these guys are really like. And we will pick up on what we see as lies/falsehoods etc, and its very easy to make our distaste public now. Also perhaps a sense of annoyance that the guys I looked up to when I was a teenager, are a bunch of idiots in the main. (but thats my age, cynicism, and naivety of youth from a time when I did think these guys were awesome cool).
And on the Blabbermouth subject, I go there alot but dont post and in most cases the negativity is rightfully thrown at guys like Geoff Tate, Dave Mustaine, Kerry King, and some of it often appeals to my childish sense of humour.
On the other hand, bands and artists that appear to have integrity do get full praise on that site, look at the posts to the Carcass and Xentrix stories the past couple of days, not a negative post on there yet, nothing but praise, so far. The same goes for posts relating to Iommi, DIO, in the main Zeppelin.
I think integrity has a lot to do with it. Once any internet community sees a lack of integrity, for whatever reason, from people held up high within that community, its pounced upon. And perhaps rightly so.
Re: Fandom and Negativity and the Internet
This is getting interesting.
I raise you A by saying the subject of common interest in any Web Community is also a vehicle for other issues. People are increasingly unsatisfied with what they have (in terms of wealth, debt, living conditions, etc.) and what they are being promised (in terms of the future). Hating the hard-to-pin-down outside world may cause one to vent on his/her hardships on that elusive figure of personal idol, be it a wrestler, rock star or a golfer.
If people would take up their personal lives in a more hands-on fashion, they'd notice 15 years on an album is not really their problem; it's the problem of those directly involved, who already get all the bitching in the world behind the scenes. But, complaining is caring and drawing the line is hard at times.
Carry on.
Re: Fandom and Negativity and the Internet
Hey Apex, I totally agree with you on the point about "If people would take up their personal lives in a more hands-on fashion, they'd notice 15 years on an album is not really their problem; it's the problem of those directly involved, who already get all the bitching in the world behind the scenes".
I recently stopped watching the news, and avoided it as much as possible. I've been studying for some exams I'm taking, so am trying to block out stuff and focus on my studies, outside of work, when the kid has gone to bed. Not much time so I binned eating dinner in front of the news, watching the news before bed. Started listening to podcasts about my study subject rather than the news in the car on the way to work and on the way home etc etc. And I feel so much better for it, not worrying about the shit that going on out there, and thinking more about my goals, and my family, its pretty good.
I find when I am vegging at home, I tend to aimlessly surf forums, blabbermouth and news sites, get nothing done, and in that head-space, its easy to bitch about anything online, especially an aging rock star who's let it go. But in those moments I try and remind myself that perhaps I need to let it go. Who cares? Really?
- Mikkamakka
- Rep: 217
Re: Fandom and Negativity and the Internet
Is the nature or being interested in something in the internet era also partially to hate it?
No, not at all. I love Slash's stuff and although I have problems with some of his actions, I still like him (as a person or public figure). I love Tori Amos' music, sick of her liberal bullshit but it doesn't effect my musical journey. I love Led Zeppelin, but think Robert Plant is a poser. Etc. Music comes first, music means the most, cause they're musicians, anyway.
So, no.
But since it's in the GN'R topic, the elephant is in the room. To tell the truth, I don't care about them anymore. But it can change. I say new music or fuck off. I don't give a damn about them until there is something new to listen and something worthy to listen. I barely visited the GN'R section in the past weeks and didn't post, but since at least a dvd is going to come out, I checked the promo and saw an awful lot of bullshit that made me post again, cause I felt they're insulting my (our) intelligence and fandom. I used to follow this pathetic Axl saga just for a sake of it, like a train wreck, but it became so predictable and boring, that I gave up. New music or fuck off.
Re: Fandom and Negativity and the Internet
Great topic, and something which has been going round in my mind frequently these last few months, as some of you may already know.
I've been a self employed web developer for the last 5 years, and love the everyday puzzles that come from my daily work, but I've grown tired of what I see online literally everywhere, everyday - which is why I rarely visit, login or post at sites I used to frequent. Nowadays I just work on my coding and spend time with my family, because I've realised they're more important to me than getting into a debate about GN'R, or even just reading others debate about GN'R.
There was a great article about this topic posted late last year at Smashing Magazine:-
Making A Better Internet
My relationship with the Internet oscillates between waves of euphoria and waves of angst. Some things make me extraordinarily happy: like a client who loves usability testing so much when they first experience it that they can’t sleep for days; or connecting with someone whose writing I’ve admired for many years.
But other things make me want to close my computer forever and go live on a farm somewhere: like people who take entire articles and present them as their own work, with tiny source links at the bottom of the page; or endless arguments and name-calling that ignore even the most basic human dignity.
We are capable of such great things, yet we somehow can’t resist the temptation to tear others apart. There is, perhaps, no better depiction of the current state of the Internet than xkcd’s “Duty Calls”:
I encourage you to read the full article, if you're prepared to see the internet for what it really is, and ourselves of course 
It may have taken me more than a decade to believe, but Axl was correct when he said:-
The internet seems to be a big garbage can.
If the internet were a garbage can in 2001, it would make it a landfill the size of USA in 2013, thanks in part to dickheads like me, and every other developer out there, who have worked to make the internet more accessible, faster loading, and more user-friendly than ever before. We've all helped build a platform for humanity to voice their thoughts and opinions - just a shame it's being wasted by way more than half the internets users.
Re: Fandom and Negativity and the Internet
American colleges seem to have a relaxed admissions policy (to put it mildly), so the Net is overpopulated by morons with free access and nothing better to do all day. Consequently, it's like being in a library with twenty million people shouting at each other. These are people who have never had sex and probably never will.
Pages: 1
