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Re: Bring Back Robin Finck "Tank"
Firstly, while I prefer new music to live shows, it seems the bulk of the bands activity IS playing old music at live shows, so to me it doesn't make sense to re-hire someone who is bad at that UNLESS the focus of the band was to shift entirely onto new music creation. If that was going to happen then sure....but there's nothing to indicate it will sadly.
I'm still of the belief that all this senseless touring is for a reason. If you look at it economically the only reason he really needs to do it is to support a 10 man band with entourage. Considering he don't even like to tour I struggle to imagine him wanting to become a full blown nostalgia act when he could just sit at home and cash publishing checks. I think he still wants to do something creative with this band, if not he'd just quit or go solo (which he has alluded to doing before). Thankfully that does not yet seem to be the case.
Secondly, lots of people seem to presume that Axl could get nothing workable out of DJ, but he seems to be a fairly strong and prolific writer in terms of his Sixx:Am stuff and Motley Stuff. So I think it's a real assumption to think that he wouldn't be able to create something that's suitable for GNR. What the band has lacked since Slash is the rock aspect to go with Axl's ballads. DJ seems to be the solution to create the faster numbers to accompany songs like TWAT. Additionally he's pretty versatile - the motley songs sounded like motley - which sounds different to Sixx...I believe he could make good GNR stuff with Axl. So i don't see the logic in throwing that away before it's tried out.
I wouldn't be surprised if you'd consider me to be one of those people, but I'm actually not. I may not have a lot of faith in DJ as of yet, but I damn sure have a lot of faith in Axl. In my opinion Slash, Robin and Ron have all done great things with Axl but I couldn't care less for their work outside of GN'R. I expect the same to be true with DJ. The Ballad of Death is a decent song, even I'll admit that.
I consider Robin a safer, proven card though and optimally I wouldn't want to fix something that isn't broken.
Thirdly, people forget there IS more robin stuff in the vault. So it's probable whatever else he had to offer we will already hear someday...so unless he's come up with some new genius thing recently..there's no need to bring him back and ruin the potential of DJ and the live show just for more songwriting. There's already a backlog of his stuff to draw upon. He had his time with Axl (twice) and we got Better out of it, and maybe some more in the vault....but it seems like a backwards step to revert to him now....there's nothing to be gained out of it.
This is true, and while I'd love for Robin to come back in theory I realize it would be anything but smooth in practice.
In that occasion I'd like to congratulate monkey for doing the impossible, changing someones opinion on the internet! Not only have you done it with somebody who's considered to be a pretty stubborn fundamentalist by a lot of people, but you did it twice! (The Izzy thread was the first time).
No, I'm not joking. Your argument is better than mine and I willfully concede.
Re: Bring Back Robin Finck "Tank"
13 fucking years & 13 million dollar budget. Even if you spent the first 5 years learning the guitar and piano from scratch as your full time job you could get to a point where you could come up wth song ideas, melodies, lyrics. You could travel for a year non stop to gain some inspiration for writing and then you've till got seven years to have world class musicians come in and write some killer guitar parts & bounce ideas off you. You coud use computers and syntheizers to create orchestras just as Axl does. Axl doesn't play guitar as good as anyone in his band, he doesn't play drums, he can't play violins or conduct an orcetsra. It's all synth. Funny that you make it sound as though 'd have to do all those things et Axl doesn't. Axl can fucking sing yes but he's not the only person who can sing and you don't need to sound like Axl Rose to create somthing as good or better. Maybe you and Monkey are right and I'm underestimating the song wrting process but I think maybe you guys are underestimating how long 13 years is, how much a 13 million dollar budgets actually is and how amazingly benefitial it is to have guys like Bucket and Brain and Richard and Tommy and Paul and Robin and Ron and DJ and Frank and Dizzy and Chris and basically anyone you want as your bandmates. I'm pretty confident given the same circumstances and same resources I could come up with something as good despite my voice not sounding like Axl Rose's. There's people all over the planet who have created things as good or better than CD. My music collection is full of them nevermind the people who unfortunately we'll never hear from. You make it sound like CD is an unnattainable achievement for all mankind other than Axl.
Oh really? Just because you say it I should take your word for it? "Any person with normal intelligence can create a melody as good as Catcher or Better in 5 years with enough time and money". All right, must be true then. Moving on.
Shit I'm above average intelligence and a pretty good writer but you could give me as many years as you'd like and I could never come up with something as good as Axl's best lyrics. Not a chance in hell. I can't even write a friggin AC/DC lyric, believe me I've tried. And then you want me to write a melody to match that, with practically zero musical experience? Good luck man, good luck! I'll tell you what, if Ron or somebody from the band ever comes around here again we can test your theory on them. I'll gladly put up a $1000 where my mouth is. If one of them even comes close to agreeing with you the money is yours. You up?
And it's not 13 years. Axl didn't even sing a word until 98 and the album was mostly done by 02. While we can't be sure, there are a host of other possibilities for why it actually took that long. Losing your entire band, having a depression, being involved in lawsuits you name it. And in that time, which could probably be limited to about 5 years of effective work, he made a lot more than 15 songs. At least around 40. A lot of people can sing, true that, but go ask your man with the pacemaker how easy it is to find somebody as good as Axl. Like it or not, you would have to achieve that to match him, either yourself or with someone else.
Re: Bring Back Robin Finck "Tank"
Mikkamakka wrote:What has Robin done in the past few years? People picture him as a creative force, but I'm afraid that lately his biggest creative effort was painting his house. If he did, anyway. His output is very tiny.
He's not exactly prolific. Just discovered he did this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzLmoamGV-0
Yeah, he's not exactly well known, but holy shit that was a pretty cool, albeit short clip.
I'm not Robin's biggest fan, but Better will always be one of my favorite GNR songs.
Re: Bring Back Robin Finck "Tank"
Just based out of curiosity shouldn't this thread be in the ex gunners thread. I mean let's be honest if someone had started a Bring Back Slash thread they'd be told to fuck off, the thread would be moved or locked and the person who started it would be accused of trolling and hating the new band.
I guess I'm just seeing some real inconsistencys here and to be honest I do find it annoying that it's perfectly acceptable to discuss bringing Robin back but the idea of classic GnR memebers returning is relegated to another thread and anyone who likes the iea of Slsh returning is living in the past. I guess it's the principle of it all. Epecially after the topic of some of us being too negative towards the new band a month ago and yet here we are with members of the board openly saying it's time to reunite Guns N' Roses..... but only the 2002 version cause that's ok.
I have to think I'm not the only one who has noticed this and is scratching their head a bit.
If you're not the only one you sure as hell are in a tiny minority. If you don't see the difference between creating a totally arbitrary Slash reunion thread and having a discussion about Robin possibly returning since he's currently out of steady work for the foreseeable future, then I don't know what to tell you.
But I'll tell you this, if the situation should ever arise where the return of Slash becomes even a remote possibility, feel free. Hell, you want to create a thread saying this new band doesn't work and should reunite (grounded in at least some form of fresh argument) feel absolutely free.
- Mikkamakka
- Rep: 217
Re: Bring Back Robin Finck "Tank"
Mikkamakka wrote:What has Robin done in the past few years? People picture him as a creative force, but I'm afraid that lately his biggest creative effort was painting his house. If he did, anyway. His output is very tiny.
He's not exactly prolific. Just discovered he did this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzLmoamGV-0
Thanks.
However, it's not more interesting than an everyday guitarist playing in his bedroom. Wasn't bad at all, but not something worth recording.
Re: Bring Back Robin Finck "Tank"
I thought it was pretty good. Not mindblowing, but pretty good. Had a few moments of the choppiness I enjoy that Slash used to play with too. Still, he's playing over someone else's song...hardly a testimony to his songwriting skills (unless it turns out he wrote it). If that's what Matt and Axl heard the first time, I can see where they would have seen a fit.
Re: Bring Back Robin Finck "Tank"
Regarding song writing, Bono is absolutely correct.
I have three words for people who do not buy into the idea that massively popular and highly crafted albums cannot be fronted by people with no talent once the budget is right...
The Spice Girls.
Highly crafted? Don't even...
And get back to me when CD becomes "massively" popular or when that becomes the primary desired goal for anyone here.
Those bitches are at the far end of the spectrum but believe me there are many "real" bands who draft in teams of writers and musicians to craft every second of their songs.
Axl was no exception, with Gary Sunshine (Aerosmith writer) hauled in listen and evaluate the tunes he had for CD. By all accounts he wasn't a fan.
Yeah, and they're all shit. Name one great band who don't write their own songs. And no, late Aerosmith definitely doesn't qualify. These days their singer is an american idol judge for christ sake.
And I'm definitely not surprised some Love-In-The-Elevator/guitar teacher doesn't know what a good song is. Really? We're using guitar teachers as straw men now?
To me, "Better" is the only song that really looked like a move away from the Slash era and that sounded great. (I'm referring to the early demo version I first heard).
All the piano songs on CD are "Illusions for the New Millenium" tunes that are really not much of a stretch from the old sound (just a bit more modern with some nods to Radiohead type atmospherics in the background etc). I think Slash could have poured much more emotion into them than the players did on CD.
Axl's style, no matter how hard he tries to escape it, is more Elton John than Trent Reznor. I just don’t think he rubs up well with the harsh landscape of that style of music. I like parts of Shacklers for sure, but that’s as far down that road I can go with Axl.
So, what am I saying? Well, to me CD wasn’t worth the hassle Axl has put himself, his old bandmates, his fans and all of the replacement players through. None of it was beyond the old band to deliver just as well if not better than the replacements did. Scrapped, Riad, Sorry, Maddy all have their moments but ultimately I find myself putting on Breakdown, You Could be Mine and Estranged and thinking to myself “why the fuck did he walk away from this band?”
It was beyond the old band since they didn't want to do it! To quote Slash "I don't want to work that hard"!
I agree though, I think the exact same thing when I hear those songs. What the hell was Slash thinking leaving this band? I'll give you the reason, he hated two of those songs and would never do them if Axl didn't force him. That's the reason you don't get wet pants from Slash on CD, he walked away from it.
Re: Bring Back Robin Finck "Tank"
I never compared Axl to the Spice Girls, I pointed out that there is plenty of evidence to back up what Bono is saying about developing globally consumable musical product with little personal talent. The Spice Girls are an example – not great singers, no songwriting credits, open users of autotune in studio - yet globally famous “recording artists”.
Except that's not what Bono is talking about. He's talking about making an album as good as CD. Industry creations meant to part the parents of silly teenagers of their money doesn't even begin to come into the equation.
To me this point is kind of meaningless, nobody can pour anything into anything when they were not there. I am willing to bet that if you handed Slash all of Axl’s piano songs from CD and let him loose on them, the majority of us would be jizzing ourselves with the results. In fact, I bet he'd make a good go of anything on CD. Nothing guitar-wise on that album sits in a different realm to anything he has done. Sure, you might have to kick his ass and make him use effects pedals etc but if he's capable of giving me a sound like the start of "Watch This" he's able to deliver on anything CD ever had.
Plenty of guitar on that album is way beyond what Slash has ever done. Maybe not in a good sense for you, but definitely technically.
I think most here would agree Axl+Slash would be capable of creating great music again. Hell, even I must admit something like that has the potential of becoming better than CD. After all, they have done so in the past.
That’s cool but to those who millions who failed to show up for CD, it wasn’t worth it. In fairness, many do love it but the majority of old fans…no.
So? I agree he's been more or less a failure at this stage to get appreciation for his music, but in the end what matters is that he's happy with it (hopefully he is, purely musically) and if a handful of fans like me and ID also happen to like it that's just a bonus. In the end it's just some dude making music. It's not really important in any way.
