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Re: SLASH 'Wasn't Disappointed' By AXL ROSE's Decision To Skip RnRHoF
Also, I wish some of these arguments could take place without people getting so dug in thatthey need to dig up reasons to shit on the other person's band member. Its plain bizarre to see people defending Axl by shitting on Slash ( and Izzy etc) and vice versa. Before I really started following Axl' s post UYI lineup I used to log into gnr msg boards in 2002ish. The same convos were going on then. And we still pick them like open sores. Its just weird sometimes. Unless you truly hate one guy or another, there's no good reason for propping up your 'pro' arguments with 'anti' ones if that even makes sense.
I can't speak for others, but I don't hate Axl, but I do hate the blind Axl followers. They almost force you to bash Axl or bash one of the band members to make your point which can be very frustrating. I imagine there are Slash fans that do the same from the other direction, but I think there are more hardcore Axl fans than Slash fans (or at least more vocal ones). I didn't always, but I do (now) try really hard not to bash Axl when I post. I think I'm pretty fair and praise/bash both sides fairly equally (though that wasn't always the case). I still favor Slash and I will defend him more often than I defend Axl, but some of that is because Axl has a lot of defenders and Slash doesn't seem to have as many.
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: SLASH 'Wasn't Disappointed' By AXL ROSE's Decision To Skip RnRHoF
I imagine there are Slash fans that do the same from the other direction.
They definitely exist and they're not afraid to throw Izzy under the bus, which is ridiculous.
Re: SLASH 'Wasn't Disappointed' By AXL ROSE's Decision To Skip RnRHoF
I can't speak for others, but I don't hate Axl, but I do hate the blind Axl followers. They almost force you to bash Axl or bash one of the band members to make your point which can be very frustrating.
Yeah, this is my impression as well, though you put it into words I couldn't find earlier.
It seems like sometimes there's this strange need for people to "protect" one or another of the band members. Or slightly differently, tenaciously cling to positive arguments where there really isn't much positive to be found. And the best defense becomes a strong offense against another band member.
So you start out by defending "your guy". Then, still in defensive mode, you start offering up explanations. Then you start moving to offensive mode, and pointing out similar transgressions on the other side, and before you know it.... BAM! It's 2002 again. 
I know this HAS to have been said before, but if the band ever reunites, there are going to be a LOT of us that talked shit about their buddies' girlfriend, only to have them get back together later. 
Re: SLASH 'Wasn't Disappointed' By AXL ROSE's Decision To Skip RnRHoF
They definitely exist and they're not afraid to throw Izzy under the bus, which is ridiculous.
This was one of the most eye-opening things I saw since the RNRHOF. I never thought anyone would find a reason to trash Izzy. It's not that I don't see their arguments now that they've been made, but just that they never even occurred to me before.
Izzy, to me, is about as cool and non-polarizing as George Harrison was to The Beatles. Which is to say, very, on both counts.
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: SLASH 'Wasn't Disappointed' By AXL ROSE's Decision To Skip RnRHoF
tejastech08 wrote:They definitely exist and they're not afraid to throw Izzy under the bus, which is ridiculous.
This was one of the most eye-opening things I saw since the RNRHOF. I never thought anyone would find a reason to trash Izzy. It's not that I don't see their arguments now that they've been made, but just that they never even occurred to me before.
Izzy, to me, is about as cool and non-polarizing as George Harrison was to The Beatles. Which is to say, very, on both counts.
Yeah, I'll never understand the Izzy hate. He was vital to the band. The fact that neither Axl nor Slash have come up with any music even remotely as compelling as AFD in the last 20 years is proof of it. The fact that GN'R as a creative entity died as soon as he walked out the door in 1991 is also proof of it.
Re: SLASH 'Wasn't Disappointed' By AXL ROSE's Decision To Skip RnRHoF
smoke wrote:tejastech08 wrote:They definitely exist and they're not afraid to throw Izzy under the bus, which is ridiculous.
This was one of the most eye-opening things I saw since the RNRHOF. I never thought anyone would find a reason to trash Izzy. It's not that I don't see their arguments now that they've been made, but just that they never even occurred to me before.
Izzy, to me, is about as cool and non-polarizing as George Harrison was to The Beatles. Which is to say, very, on both counts.
Yeah, I'll never understand the Izzy hate. He was vital to the band. The fact that neither Axl nor Slash have come up with any music even remotely as compelling as AFD in the last 20 years is proof of it. The fact that GN'R as a creative entity died as soon as he walked out the door in 1991 is also proof of it.
I don't think it's proof of what you think it is though, and I have no problem with Izzy. Izzy's solo music isn't exactly compelling either (and I love Ju Ju Hounds). The magic was that the 4 of them (Duff included) all brought different vibes to the songs, and when combined, they were appealing to people from a variety of backgrounds. You can debate who was most important until the cows come home, but in reality it doesn't matter...the key was what they did together, not what they did individually...
...which brings us to the creative entity part. I agree that Izzy leaving was when that ended, but I don't agree that Izzy's songwriting being removed from the mix was the real reason. I believe Izzy was the only one that could get Axl and Slash to cooperate with each other and when he left, the chance for cooperation ended too. So yes, the creative entity died when Izzy left, but not only because of his songwriting skills. I think the glue that held it all together left too, and that was the bigger loss than his songwriting skills (which were important too).
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: SLASH 'Wasn't Disappointed' By AXL ROSE's Decision To Skip RnRHoF
tejastech08 wrote:smoke wrote:This was one of the most eye-opening things I saw since the RNRHOF. I never thought anyone would find a reason to trash Izzy. It's not that I don't see their arguments now that they've been made, but just that they never even occurred to me before.
Izzy, to me, is about as cool and non-polarizing as George Harrison was to The Beatles. Which is to say, very, on both counts.
Yeah, I'll never understand the Izzy hate. He was vital to the band. The fact that neither Axl nor Slash have come up with any music even remotely as compelling as AFD in the last 20 years is proof of it. The fact that GN'R as a creative entity died as soon as he walked out the door in 1991 is also proof of it.
I don't think it's proof of what you think it is though, and I have no problem with Izzy. Izzy's solo music isn't exactly compelling either (and I love Ju Ju Hounds). The magic was that the 4 of them (Duff included) all brought different vibes to the songs, and when combined, they were appealing to people from a variety of backgrounds. You can debate who was most important until the cows come home, but in reality it doesn't matter...the key was what they did together, not what they did individually...
...which brings us to the creative entity part. I agree that Izzy leaving was when that ended, but I don't agree that Izzy's songwriting being removed from the mix was the real reason. I believe Izzy was the only one that could get Axl and Slash to cooperate with each other and when he left, the chance for cooperation ended too. So yes, the creative entity died when Izzy left, but not only because of his songwriting skills. I think the glue that held it all together left too, and that was the bigger loss than his songwriting skills (which were important too).
Of course Izzy's solo output hasn't been anywhere near classic GN'R material. None of them have been anywhere near it. But the way some people try to diminish Izzy's contributions, you would think Slash was the only guy who created any of the music. That's just not the case.
If it was up to Slash, SCOM would be in the garbage disposal of history. How many other great riffs has he thrown away during the last 20 years because he didn't have someone there like Izzy who recognized greatness and was willing to turn it into an actual song? Izzy had a wonderful ear for pop sensibilities and if nothing else, he served as a great sounding board for a very talented lead guitarist who didn't necessarily know when he'd struck gold.
And you are absolutely correct about Izzy being the best peacekeeper in the band. He was the only one Axl really trusted in the band since they were friends going back to middle school. So when Izzy left, that was the end of any decent communication between the remaining members.
Re: SLASH 'Wasn't Disappointed' By AXL ROSE's Decision To Skip RnRHoF
I think that Izzy's temperament bridged the gap, which is kind of funny since his rhythm playing did the same thing 
. I agree that the four of them together hugely complemented each other's writing and playing, and that no one has lived up to it solo. And I LOVE Izzy's stuff, but it's pretty straight up Stones/Petty rock- nothing trailblazing.
I hate falling into the trap of the who's most important argument, though. You're totally right, Buzz- Izzy's departure may have been more important in that he was the go between the two alphas. Or maybe it WAS his song structures. Or maybe it was just coincidental, and the hunger would have been gone whether he stayed or left. Or any combo of the three. I DO think that Axl needs a writing partner that he trusts and respects, and that Slash needs someone to push him, and that Izzy and Duff both flourish when they're either adding to someone else's stuff, or bouncing their own stuff off a band of equals.
But all in all, I think the most important thing to keep in mind is what you said:
"You can debate who was most important until the cows come home, but in reality it doesn't matter...the key was what they did together, not what they did individually..."
- Son of a Gun
- Rep: -3
Re: SLASH 'Wasn't Disappointed' By AXL ROSE's Decision To Skip RnRHoF
Axl, Slash, Izzy and Duff to lesser extent were all crucial in songwriting process to downplay one`s contributions while glorifiyng others` is fucking idiotic
- Intercourse
- Rep: 212
Re: SLASH 'Wasn't Disappointed' By AXL ROSE's Decision To Skip RnRHoF
I was annoyed that Izzy would play a wedding with Axl for coin but not show at the RNRHOF even though his old commrades Duff, Slash & Stephen really wanted him to.
It has nothing to do with not respecting his legacy which I do, massively.
For me, I imagine that wedding: the pompous, rich self-indulged fools swishing to GNR, talking loudly over the band and probably too blitzed on Moet to even know or appreciate just who is making that sound for them. While on the other side I saw all the fans who followed GNR forever, watching the RNRHOF just hoping to hear the man play for ten minutes with his old mates...and yet no..
On the other topic of taking sides...
Duff, Izzy, Slash and Axl were the four chemicals that turned GNR into the blockbuster drug we're all addicted to. None of those men should be denigrated, misrepresented, or diminished in their role as key contributor to the GNR sound.
People get personal out of frustration and 'cause its safe to do so on the Internet. Its plain wrong but "the GNR Debate" seems destined to remain one that will see fans boil it down to who they like best.
