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Re: Vatican lists "new deadly sins"
polluxlm wrote:The most evil institution in history threatens us again, eh?
One day...
That's a very ignorant comment. While I am by no means Catholic and certainly disagree with them on a multitude of social issues, I would say that the Church has done far more good than evil, and even if you want to dispute that, they certainly aren't the most evil institution. Stalin's Russia, Hitler's Germany and Mao's China would fair much better for that title.
Just because your beliefs follow similarily to Scientology, doesn't qualify you to lash out at Catholicism or Christianity. In all your rants about positive energy and seeing yourself do something, it always revolves around self gain; hardly the pincale and message of Christianity.
It never ends with you, does it?
I appreciate your need to piss on everything, but enough already.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: Vatican lists "new deadly sins"
You make an outrageous comment and condemn an institution that has had more impact on Earth than any other, and you tell me I'm pissing on everything? I take it you don't have an intelligent response and fail to see the irony in you telling anyone they're "pissing" all over something.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: Vatican lists "new deadly sins"
I certainly have my own reservations and issues with the Catholic Church and organized religion in general. I simply wonder how one can label it the most evil institution ever? Specifically when the message of that institution is love thy neighbor and do onto others as you would have them do on to you. We all know there are problems in how this is followed and executed. I just don't believe one can inteligently show them to be an evil institution, let alone the most evil one.
Re: Vatican lists "new deadly sins"
Pride&Glory wrote:Sorry if I offend any Catholics here but the Catholic religion is all bullshit. A man has no right and I mean no right to hear what you have to say to the God you believe in. Especially since half of them touch little boys and sin themselves. Man is no substitute for God. The Pope is a load of bullshit. They put the man so high almost as high as Catholics think of God and Jesus Christ. They add books to the bible and their own rules more so than any religion that follows Jesus Christ. I don't need some place like the Vatican to tell me what is right and wrong in the eyes of my God.
I don't want to get into a religious argument with you and I'm certainly not the type to press my beliefs on other people but I'm just curious, why was your comment so harsh against the religion, are you an ex-catholic?
Let me rephrase it better. It did come off kind of harsh and hot headed. I'm not an ex-catholic but some of my family is catholic. I just have a difference in opinion in how they run their church and things of that nature. For instance, confessing your sins to a priest? If I have enough faith in God and believe he is truly there I wouldn't need to talk to a middle man. The Pope, I think is way too glorified for any one person other than God. Like with Pope John II it got to the point where he's almost or is a false idol in some ways. What makes someone so special that they can have that title and what not. Nothing against the man himself he was a good man. It's the titles they give and all the "rules" and some of the teachings of the church. It's all a little much really for anyone group of people too have when having faith in your God and knowing his teachings and following them is what is most important. The church says this and the church says that. Who's more important the Church or God? Teach the word of God and let the people who follow have free will like God intended.
- the_real_jessica
- Rep: 22
Re: Vatican lists "new deadly sins"
You make an outrageous comment and condemn an institution that has had more impact on Earth than any other, and you tell me I'm pissing on everything? I take it you don't have an intelligent response and fail to see the irony in you telling anyone they're "pissing" all over something.
Just one example of your " institution"
Simon McGuinness
The Irish Times - Jun 21, 2007
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/world/ … 07688.html
Did the Vatican buy arms for the IRA?
IRA claim is latest twist in 'God's Banker' murder trail
by Paddy Agnew
Letter from Rome : Did the Holy See, wittingly or unwittingly, via its
collaboration with the ill-fated Banco Ambrosiano once buy arms for the
IRA?
This astonishing allegation is just one of the many unanswered questions
raised by a new book, The Last Supper , written by Rome-based journalist
Philip Willan, on the life and mysterious death of Roberto Calvi, oft
referred to as "God's Banker", who was found dead, hanging from
scaffolding under Blackfriars Bridge, London on June 18th, 1982.
The Calvi death remains an unsolved mystery. As he struggled to save his
bankruptcy-threatened bank (it eventually collapsed in 1982 owing an
estimated $1.3 billion) was he threatening to spill the beans on some of
his most delicate banking "operations"? Did the Ambrosiano, at the
request of the Vatican, help fund the Polish trade union movement,
Solidarnosc? What exactly was the Vatican's relationship with Banco
Ambrosiano?
Had the network of offshore companies set up by Calvi been used by
organised crime to launder the proceeds of the heroin trade and were the
Mafiosi now looking for their money? Did the bank help fund the purchase
of arms for the late Saddam Hussein in Iraq? Did the bank supply funds
to most of the leading Italian political parties of the day?
Via his membership of Licio Gelli's outlawed masonic lodge, P2, had
Calvi put together a network of dangerous and ultimately fatal "working
relationships"?
Twenty-five years on, the Calvi murder is still occupying the courts.
Just two weeks ago, a court in Rome acquitted five people charged with
Calvi's murder. Those cleared were Mafia boss Giuseppe "Pippo" CalC2;
the businessmen Ernesto Diotallevi and Flavio Carboni; Calvi's driver
and bodyguard in his last days, Silvano Vittor; and Flavio Carboni's
Austrian girlfriend Manuela Kleinszig.
So, the Calvi death retains its rightful place in Italy's Fame Hall of
Unsolved Mystery. Who, if anyone, killed Calvi? Who decided to blow up
Bologna train station, killing 85, in August 1980? Who was behind Ali
Agca's attempt on the life of Pope John Paul II in May 1981? Why, on the
evening of June 27th, 1980, did an Itavia DC 9 plane, on an internal
flight from Bologna to Palermo, drop like a stone from the sky, crashing
into the sea near the Sicilian island of Ustica, killing all 81 on
board?
The list goes on, there are plenty of other such mysteries but what they
all have in common is that no one has been found responsible for
horrendous crimes.
The Calvi investigation did not get off to a good start. Initially,
London police concluded that Calvi had committed suicide. In his book,
Willan points out that at the recent Rome trial, the most damaging
criticism of the original inquiry came from another police officer, Det
Supt Trevor Smith, who had been asked to carry out a fresh examination
of the case in July 2002.
Smith found a "catalogue of errors and omissions" - the knot in Calvi's
noose had not been preserved; fingerprints were not taken from either
the scaffolding or items found on his body; there was no investigation
of international travel by Italian citizens around the time of Calvi's
death; no bank accounts associated with Calvi were checked; his body was
not photographed before removal from the scaffolding; bricks found in
Calvi's pockets and down his fly (why would a person bent on suicide
want to stick a brick down his fly?) were removed; perhaps worst of all,
investigative activity was suspended for almost a month pending the
outcome of the first inquest (which reached a verdict of suicide on July
23rd, 1982).
Was this all just shoddy police work or proof of a masonic plot?
Officially, even if Italian public opinion had other ideas, Calvi's
death remained a "suicide" until 1988 when a Milan civil court ruled he
had been murdered and that, therefore, his life insurer was obliged to
pay the four billion lira (_2 million) owed on his life policy.
Willan's book contains myriad possible explanations for Calvi's death,
explanations largely based on the evidence of a "cast of extraordinary
crooks and charlatans" beside whom the protagonists in Dan Brown's Da
Vinci Code , he writes, "pale into banality".
And the IRA connection? Here, we need to reach for a generous pinch of
salt. Willan recalls a 1986 interview given to Italian news weekly,
L'Espresso by Francesco Pazienza, another of the "rogues' gallery", a
former secret services agent, former consultant and lobbyist for Calvi
and someone currently in prison for his role in the fraudulent collapse
of the Banco Ambrosiano. Pazienza recalls: "The company Erin SA,
controlled by the Vatican, owed the Ambrosiano more than $60 million in
1981. Well, in mid-1981, the German secret services and the CIA received
a report from the English security services asking them to investigate
the purchase of strategic material by a well-known German arms dealer,
material that was destined for the IRA. The report referred to a
"Panamanian company, considered close to Catholic circles and probably
the Vatican, named Erin SA".
Willan then asks if "the Vatican had been buying arms for a terrorist
organisation?" Yet another of the unanswered questions raised by this
fascinating book, one which takes the reader on a disturbing ride
through 25 years of plots, counter-plots and conspiracy theories linked
to the worlds of organised crime and high finance.
The Last Supper, by Philip Willan, is published by Robinson (London).
(c) 2007 The Irish Times
*
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: Vatican lists "new deadly sins"
So you provide one article that has a loose string of evidence to one incident, and argue that supports the thesis that the Catholic Church is the most evil institution in the world?
- the_real_jessica
- Rep: 22
Re: Vatican lists "new deadly sins"
I will not provide more.
I could. But some things are best left unknown or unsaid.
Think what you want.
Time will show you. As you still live. Nothing can and will stop what must happen.
Re: Vatican lists "new deadly sins"
The fact of the matter is that organized religion (in a lot of different forms) has done a ton of good and a ton of bad throughout the course of history.
In the end, it probably all levels out somewhere, but no one will ever know or be able to know definitively or totally prove anything. The discussion could go on forever. (and basically has).
Re: Vatican lists "new deadly sins"
I will not provide more.
I could. But some things are best left unknown or unsaid.
Think what you want.
Time will show you. As you still live. Nothing can and will stop what must happen.
That just shows weakness. If you have something then post it. Don't play these I have info but you can't handle it angles.
