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Re: SLASH 'Wasn't Disappointed' By AXL ROSE's Decision To Skip RnRHoF
I totally took the bait there huh.
The thing for me is that I DON'T CARE what GNR are like as people.
Seriously I don't give a fuck. I like them for the talent - which just happens to be a step above normal folks.
Since when are they rollmodels?
Matt makes a daughter go down on her mum but he's a good drummer.
Izzy delt drugs but he's a great rhythm player.
Duff drank so much they named the beer in the simpon's after him but he kicks ass on bass.
Slash steals some shit but he's the best rock guitarist of his generation.
Axl beat his wives, smashes up his house but you can't touch him as a frontman.
So if Axl was caught buggering little boys you'd still be anticipating his next album? If Slash got tired of Perlas bs and offed her you'd line up for the reunion show?
Matt is an idiot, don't like him either. Nothing wrong with dealing drugs to consenting adults. Nothing wrong with having an alcohol problem. And nothing points to Axl being a "wife beater" as in he's doing it right now. They both dropped the case for cash or something so who knows the truth about that. He probably did considering where he comes from but for all we know he hasn't even had a steady girlfriend since those two and we hear no complaints from Beta. Doesn't exactly sound like a "wife beater" to me. Sounds like a guy who made a mistake and now has trouble committing like that again. A millionaire wife beater would just keep on finding new girls to submit. If he's in to raping chicks too I'd expect jail to come sooner than later.
So I mean you can make a passive aggressive comment like "he still thinks it's ok to steal if the victim is rich" and I can ask why and you can tell me all about how Slash steals CD's...but anyone can play that game...."Axl still thinks it's ok to take something if the victim is weak"....oh...what do you mean monkey? "Oh..well he raped Erin in the asshole"....see how it's not all that relevant?
I like these people DESPITE what they do.
It's about the music.
That's not passive aggressive. It's a blunt and matter of factly assertion of his character.
Relevant to music? Perhaps no. Relevant to Slash' credibility in a statement made by him (which is what we're discussing)? Definitely and totally.
But you know what...I believe Slash was relieved Axl wasn't there....it would have been the most awkward confrontation of all time on live TV....it's common fucking sense he'd be scared of it.....EVEN IF HE DOES STEAL SOME COMPACT DISCS GASP!
I have no doubt he was afraid, of a lot of things. He's not saying that though is he. Asked how he felt he says "I was not disappointed" (implying others perhaps would and should be). A partial and strategic statement. Then he says he didn't have any expectations since he left the band in the early 90s. Not wholly true and doesn't make any sense either. To the contrary he would be the only one in that scenario to be in a position to have any expectations, cause presumably he holds the keys to getting back together.
Of course, we know the real reason there's no expectations. His former front man hates his guts and have been very vocal about that for years. Don't want to get into that too much though. Better to say something which will allow people to assume you're the one who has a problem with him, cause that would make sense in the Axl is a bad guy version of things.
Now I think we'll both agree none of them has done something so bad that it will affect our ability to enjoy their music. But if you want to go the drama way and try and shift some blame in the whole GN'R thing, my vote goes to the top hat for his now exposed character. What were Axl's faults really? Habitually late and prone to blow ups. Not a great cv but at least you could generally expect him to show, alive. Slash has been dead what, 4 times? Yet it's Axl's fault that he's fucked up and barely able to play a show at 11 o clock. It's his fault when you can't keep away from your drug and alcohol problem to make an album. No, you have to tour and get that mother in the bag in a couple of weeks or it's falling apart. Then, when your band mate takes issues with your attitude you up and leave on him.
But...Axl is the asshole. Because he's a dictator (which he always was), because he's got his own dressing room (he had his own room back when you were all sharing a one bedroom apartment) and the head shot, because he wanted to *gasp* explore the bands musical horizons. But fuck that, that's intolerable I'm leaving. Sure I'm the most vital member next to you in the band, but you can go and deliver that record we got a 10 million advance for on your own. I mean, I just don't caaare.
Those first few years without a phone call from Axl must have been so devastating for him. So much so that he just happened to be in Vegas when Axl is doing his first show. So much that at the first sign of Axl speaking about you in a positive way you run to his door trying to get back together, desperately relaying your message to the maid when he doesn't want to see you. You know, just in the faint hope he'll get it and call you back. And once more, you're ready to default on all your current commitments to make this happen. But that's rock n roll right?
Slash looks really cool smoking a cigarette, so fuck Axl Rose. He was not disappointed and he had no expectations, and that's the end of it.
/rant
Re: SLASH 'Wasn't Disappointed' By AXL ROSE's Decision To Skip RnRHoF
Did you really say "what were Axl's faults really?" and then limit them to being late and blowing up now and then? Wow.
I can't believe any sane person really believes any of what you said in your rant. No show was ever cancelled because Slash wasn't there or couldn't play. No record delays happened because Slash wasn't there or couldn't play. That's what he lived for...it was the down times that he struggled with, not the few times things were supposed to happen.
Re: SLASH 'Wasn't Disappointed' By AXL ROSE's Decision To Skip RnRHoF
That's his main faults. Being late for shows, rehearsals. Sometimes throwing a hissy fit at inappropriate moments. You could usually expect him to show up and put on a great show. You could always depend on him to go in the studio and create magic. With patience of course. He was always loyal to the band, both in the press and in private. There was no "regime", but he had an insatiable need for doing his own thing.
No, he was always good at cruising like that. But just because he was lucky to live all those times he passed over doesn't mean that's not a problem or some non issue for the band. And if he can't handle prolonged down times that's his problem too. He's not exactly being asked the world here. Come in, do some tracks, go home. Wait for Axl to do his thing. That's the way it had always been done. Suddenly that's a problem.
Yes, Axl is late as a motherfucker. But he never "laid down the law" in most band issues. He praised some of Slash tapes back then and now. Problem was Slash didn't want to play ball. Wanted to use the situation to reclaim a position in the band. Wanted to keep coming in for a few quick sessions and be done with it. Being asked to try out some OMG stuff does not really cut it as irrevocable musical differences. Duff never had problems with Axl's material. Yet these are cited as valid reasons to throw everything on the boat.
Re: SLASH 'Wasn't Disappointed' By AXL ROSE's Decision To Skip RnRHoF
That's his main faults. Being late for shows, rehearsals. Sometimes throwing a hissy fit at inappropriate moments. You could usually expect him to show up and put on a great show. You could always depend on him to go in the studio and create magic. With patience of course. He was always loyal to the band, both in the press and in private. There was no "regime", but he had an insatiable need for doing his own thing.
Axl was always late when he wasn't no-showing after AFD. That wasn't an issue before that. Don't make it sound like he's always been that way; he wasn't and that was a problem for the band.
No, he was always good at cruising like that. But just because he was lucky to live all those times he passed over doesn't mean that's not a problem or some non issue for the band. And if he can't handle prolonged down times that's his problem too. He's not exactly being asked the world here. Come in, do some tracks, go home. Wait for Axl to do his thing. That's the way it had always been done. Suddenly that's a problem.
I assume "he" in the first part is Slash. He handled the prolonged downtime by doing his own thing...that's why Snakepit came along. He'd have much rather gone on doing GnR records, but Axl wasn't interested at the time. He still didn't leave GnR until it was apparent it was going to turn into what it ended up turning into. Read Duff's book and you'll see this was an issue for him too, so don't make it out as a Slash problem. They were ready; Axl wasn't. And no, that's NOT always the way it had been done. AFD was not recorded that way. UYI started it, but at least Axl showed up eventually for the sessions. All the post UYI were Axl showing up at 4 AM wondering where everyone was to record with him.
Yes, Axl is late as a motherfucker. But he never "laid down the law" in most band issues. He praised some of Slash tapes back then and now. Problem was Slash didn't want to play ball. Wanted to use the situation to reclaim a position in the band. Wanted to keep coming in for a few quick sessions and be done with it. Being asked to try out some OMG stuff does not really cut it as irrevocable musical differences. Duff never had problems with Axl's material. Yet these are cited as valid reasons to throw everything on the boat.
What? Never laid down the law? He took control of the band name, then quit the band and told the others they'd have to join his band of the same name. WTF are you talking about never laid down the law...even if that was the ONLY time (which it wasn't), that's enough right there to justify playing hardball to get some control back. The bigger problem was that Slash waited too long to do it and there was no control for him to get back at that point. I don't think you have any understanding of what happened after 1991 with this band...your version is so wildly inaccurate it's hard to even try to have a conversation with you about it.
Re: SLASH 'Wasn't Disappointed' By AXL ROSE's Decision To Skip RnRHoF
Axl was always late when he wasn't no-showing after AFD. That wasn't an issue before that. Don't make it sound like he's always been that way; he wasn't and that was a problem for the band.
It's been awhile since I read it, but I'm pretty sure there were examples of Axl being late and even no showing to gigs pre AFD days when they were trying to make it in "Reckless Road". So it really has been an issue throughout his life.
Re: SLASH 'Wasn't Disappointed' By AXL ROSE's Decision To Skip RnRHoF
Axl was always late when he wasn't no-showing after AFD. That wasn't an issue before that. Don't make it sound like he's always been that way; he wasn't and that was a problem for the band.
Of course it was a problem, point is they always accepted it. His new band is currently accepting it. A no show was rare and the regularity of his lateness seems easy enough to adapt to. Less than smooth no doubt, but not a monstrous problem. Doesn't make him a villain.
I assume "he" in the first part is Slash. He handled the prolonged downtime by doing his own thing...that's why Snakepit came along. He'd have much rather gone on doing GnR records, but Axl wasn't interested at the time. He still didn't leave GnR until it was apparent it was going to turn into what it ended up turning into. Read Duff's book and you'll see this was an issue for him too, so don't make it out as a Slash problem. They were ready; Axl wasn't. And no, that's NOT always the way it had been done. AFD was not recorded that way. UYI started it, but at least Axl showed up eventually for the sessions. All the post UYI were Axl showing up at 4 AM wondering where everyone was to record with him.
Which he easily could have continued doing. Members doing solo stuff in down times have never been an issue with Axl. Oh he wanted to continue making GN'R records alright. He wanted Snakepit to be it. Does that sound like a smart move in the mid 90s? Forget commercial relevance, would you want that to be a GN'R album? Just something they'd haphazardly throw out there? Maybe some do, but Axl, and Duff didn't. Of course they didn't, there already was something called AC/DC.
I have read it. Besides being very vague and apprehensive about all those core issues his sentiments didn't strike me as someone who couldn't stand being in Axl's GN'R. Things had changed and without Slash it didn't feel like the same thing so he gave it up. Start a fresh life and all that. As often does that only lasted a few years before the need to rock and be someone again returned. With Slash still in the equation we'd probably still have the UYI band rolling (or stumbling) in some form. Whatever his issues were they weren't serious enough to actually mean anything until Slash bailed. Even then it took years.
What? Never laid down the law? He took control of the band name, then quit the band and told the others they'd have to join his band of the same name. WTF are you talking about never laid down the law...even if that was the ONLY time (which it wasn't), that's enough right there to justify playing hardball to get some control back. The bigger problem was that Slash waited too long to do it and there was no control for him to get back at that point. I don't think you have any understanding of what happened after 1991 with this band...your version is so wildly inaccurate it's hard to even try to have a conversation with you about it.
Him gaining control was implied from the beginning. That's why you don't hear any fuzz about it until years and years after the band is finished. If you're going by the law of the street it really was his band once Tracii left. He teamed up with Izzy, got Duff, then Slash and Steven. All of this would be known to the band and that's why the seemingly outrageous idea of him taking control of the band was proposed in the first place. It didn't come out of the blue. Niven's attempts to try and democratize the band were naturally seen as an affront to that. With such a dominating personality in the group this is what ends up happening no matter how you play it. And everybody knew it, which is why it didn't become a thing until later developments called for it.
Slash didn't give a fuck when things were convenient for him. He didn't care when he was asked for his signature and he didn't care when he went knocking on a certain someone's door years later. Why would he? Pay is the same, less responsibility and it isn't like Axl isn't already making all the decisions. But in 96 somehow it was very important. Suddenly he doesn't want to do any more November Rains. He doesn't even want to do it the way they did on Appetite, he wants his AC/DC and that's it. Which of course is a bullshit stance when he has shown no aversion to collaborating with genre artists he himself deems detestable since. And he was the one who opted out of Izzy's idea of doing a bare bones rock n roll thing with each of them sharing vocals duties. He wanted to get a "star" like Scott instead. He wanted to do epics on MTV. Exact same thing he accused Axl of.
Having a drug problem and not being able to get along with Axl's recording schedule are all valid reasons for leaving the band, but it doesn't give you the right to paint him a villain. Especially when looking a bit closer you appear quite the egotistical villain yourself. From a fan of the band standpoint, at least Axl never had quitting the band on his to do list. He wanted control yes, but he was willing to stick it out with the original members on issues. When Slash and Duff said fuck that to his Reznor and Janes Addiction ideas he didn't try to force it. He compromised evidenced by the sessions Slash talks about in 96, and it's probably the same album Axl's referring to in his MTV fax published around the same time.
Re: SLASH 'Wasn't Disappointed' By AXL ROSE's Decision To Skip RnRHoF
It's pretty clear you have an anti-Slash agenda, so there's not much point in continuing this discussion (which is too bad because I think it could be an interesting discussion). If you've listened to any VR stuff, I think it's pretty clear he had no interest in epic anything except rock n roll. Ironically it was Scott that pushed them towards more of an alternative sound on Libertad (which I happen to like more than CB). Scott basically turned into Axl minus the name game. I personally think they dumped him more because of the musical direction of the group than the showing up late stuff, but that's just my opinion. That's why I believe it when it's said Slash left GnR because of the musical direction. Look at Snakepit. Look at his solo stuff. There's some good stuff there, but none of it to my ears is great and it's almost all straight rock.
I love Axl's contributions to the UYI albums. I love the epic songs. I love most of Libertad. I like what Slash does with those songs; I've never understood why he's so adverse to doing them. It's hard being a big Slash fan but loving what he did on Axl's epic stuff more than what he did on most of his own stuff (Coma and Locomotive being obvious exceptions). It's hard being an Axl fan and hearing CD thinking there's something missing from these epic songs that I used to love from him. That's why I still love TWaT to this day...it's as close to what I consider an old GnR song as either of them have done in 20 years. So don't make me out to be some Slash fanboy because I'm not. I'm not anti-Axl either. I'm disappointed in both of them; I just happen to care more about the music than the lyrics, so I appreciate Slash a little more as a result. That's it.
Re: SLASH 'Wasn't Disappointed' By AXL ROSE's Decision To Skip RnRHoF
I just happen to care more about the music than the lyrics, so I appreciate Slash a little more as a result. That's it.
Totally opposite for me, but I get what you're saying.
Again, I've said it before, but the comparisons between GN'R and Zeppelin, The Beatles or the Sones are completely ridiculous. The best comparison is The Sex Pistols. They both had that one album where all parties were necessary: guitars, vocals, bass, drums, and it was really lightning in a bottle. Success killed it. The only reason in my mind we even got UYI is because so much of it had already been written before AFD and the other members gave in to Axl's "Queen" vision. But after that, I don't see where they had any kind of future together.
That's why I'm glad they're not together anymore. They never sucked, and they would have. The shared vision was gone, no matter who you want to blame. And whoever is the villain or the headcase is, which I think Axl, Izzy and Slash had problems - That made that great music.
I hope Slash can find that guy in VR to push him like Axl did and I hope Axl gets Robin and/or Bucket back to light his creative fire. It's obvious that Axl and slash would not do that for each other now. Like Buzz's point, look at CD and look at VR, or even his solo album. Two totally different things.
With VR, I think Slash knew Scott made them relevant, but wasn't into the music... Kind of like UYI. Shit he could overlook like the lateness and stuff got on his nerves and he went back to what he was comfortable with. I think it was a mixture of both with Slash and Scott, musical direction and his behavior. I would guess Scott was even harder to deal with than Axl. It's not a knock, really, but I don't think Slash really wants to work hard at making music now a days. And Axl sees making music as torture. Those two things aren't going to work together.
Re: SLASH 'Wasn't Disappointed' By AXL ROSE's Decision To Skip RnRHoF
It's pretty clear you have an anti-Slash agenda, so there's not much point in continuing this discussion (which is too bad because I think it could be an interesting discussion). If you've listened to any VR stuff, I think it's pretty clear he had no interest in epic anything except rock n roll. Ironically it was Scott that pushed them towards more of an alternative sound on Libertad (which I happen to like more than CB). Scott basically turned into Axl minus the name game. I personally think they dumped him more because of the musical direction of the group than the showing up late stuff, but that's just my opinion. That's why I believe it when it's said Slash left GnR because of the musical direction. Look at Snakepit. Look at his solo stuff. There's some good stuff there, but none of it to my ears is great and it's almost all straight rock.
I love Axl's contributions to the UYI albums. I love the epic songs. I love most of Libertad. I like what Slash does with those songs; I've never understood why he's so adverse to doing them. It's hard being a big Slash fan but loving what he did on Axl's epic stuff more than what he did on most of his own stuff (Coma and Locomotive being obvious exceptions). It's hard being an Axl fan and hearing CD thinking there's something missing from these epic songs that I used to love from him. That's why I still love TWaT to this day...it's as close to what I consider an old GnR song as either of them have done in 20 years. So don't make me out to be some Slash fanboy because I'm not. I'm not anti-Axl either. I'm disappointed in both of them; I just happen to care more about the music than the lyrics, so I appreciate Slash a little more as a result. That's it.
Don't think I'm calling you a Slash fan boy or anything. I sometimes have sudden changes in the story telling point of view. Those "you's" are referring to Slash not you.
The only agenda is attempting to restore some balance to this thing. I'm definitely a bit anti Slash the person, but not musically. I'd like for him to still be in the band. I would have liked for them to battle it out, have their ego stroking phases and eventually just kinda jive with it like the Stones did. Alas that was not to be and I'm tired of seeing Axl being named the only problem in that equation.
He wrote Fall To Pieces. He wrote Slither (which is basically a YCBM remake). Sure it's not jumping off oil tankers epic but nor is it what he claimed to be so adamant about doing back in 95 (the snakepit album). And it wasn't like Axl was even opposed to that. He simply wanted to touch on it. But no. So who's playing the dictator here?
Libertad bombing and Scotts increasingly erratic behavior also must have played a part. Music seems very reasonable though considering the record was beyond average. Combined it probably just evaporated whatever steam was there. But I don't think the sense of compromise musically was the deciding factor. If it had been a hit I'd expect them to still be together, or in the process of being reunited now that Scott's improving.
Realistically speaking, put Slash on CD and scale it a bit in his favor, does that seem like something he would be totally opposed to doing, genuinely? It's not like Axl is trying to be revolutionary here. Increasingly we're being left with the possibility that some failed power play from a disgruntled band member remains the only sensible explanation for why the band irrevocably imploded. How pointless.
Should we burn Slash at the stake for this? Preferably not. But maybe it should help to change the perception of him as the poor boy who couldn't bear to live under the delusions of the crazed, villainous king.
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Re: SLASH 'Wasn't Disappointed' By AXL ROSE's Decision To Skip RnRHoF
Slash not interested in "epics"?
Sir, I give you one word..."COMA".
I think Slash has some sort of issue with ballads, not epics. I cannot say I blame him..he gave his heart and soul to Estranged, Breakdown, NV and Don't Cry ..epic ballad style tunes he filled with such thought, craft and a beauty that its completely fair and balanced to say that they took Axl's tunes to an entireky new level..no orchestra required.
If you read what Matt was saying about the end of days for the band, it was the full time presence of the piano that seemed to be pissing them all off. If I was in GNR at that time and thought that our next album was going to be 10 eight minute piano epics about Steph Seymour which would probably take five years to finish and we had no choice but to accept this as everything i wrote was being rejected, then I'd be a dick too.
As you said, its about balance. I've said it before, I see Slash in the pipe cleaner jeans and the backwards baseball hats at 47 year old...writing songs like "We're all gonna Die" and "One last Thrill" and I just want to take the dude aside and ask him to drop the goofball rock act. He could strive to be so much more sophisticated, more current and grown up. I point to Dave Grohl as the perfect example of the man that never changed but grew up properly at the same time.
BUT, he more than met Axl half way in is UYI songs and it was wrong of Axl to see GNR then as his vision, and his vision alone. Slash leaving and Axls vision failing to materialise is what Axl hates Slash the most for. He said as much with his comment on a decade long writers block. What he doesn't seem able to admit was that he didn't have writers block, he had lots of material but none of his old team to bring it over the line.
