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Re: BUMBLEFOOT Says Waiting For A New GUNS N' ROSES Album To Get Done Is '
otto wrote:Hate to be correcting Russ all the time, but Waters released three solo albums
:
Pros and Cons of HitchHiking (with Eric Clapton on guitars)
Radio CHAOS
Amused to Death (with Jeff Beck on guitars, Don Henley on some vocals)Pro's and Con's came out prior to him leaving Pink Floyd, as did Music From The Body. I was talking about the work he did after he left Pink Floyd.
polluxlm wrote:In the public eye the comparison is in fact very apt, but you just don't see the same dedication for The Division Bell among Floyd fans as you do for CD and GN'R. And I don't think I've ever seen any strong desire for new Gilmour material since I joined the web back in 97. Do you hear anything as good as TWAT or Madagscar on TDB? To each his own of course, but that would surprise me.
I like Poles Apart, Keep Talking and High Hopes all as much as I like TWaT.
And if you're talking about GN'R fans as a whole, then yeah comparing The Division Bell and Floyd fans to it is very apt. If you walk up to the average GN'R fan (not a forum dweller) and ask if they own, have heard or want to hear Chinese Democracy, you'll get the same response you would from an average fan of Floyd when asked about The Division Bell: "No thank you"
You're right about Pro's And Con's... He left Floyd in 85 and P&C's is from 84, although he didn't release anything else with Floyd after... Floyd's 84 is GNR's 96
About Music from The Body I really don't feel it's like a proper solo album, sounds more like a collaboration/experimentation but I get your point.
Re: BUMBLEFOOT Says Waiting For A New GUNS N' ROSES Album To Get Done Is '
misterID wrote:I liked the Division Bell. And "Marooned" was friggin bad ass. It was almost ritual: Roll a joint, put on Marooned, mind expanded.
If anything, I'd say Axl was Gilmore. Took the name, put out a couple albums, used the band to tour, and rarely puts out any original material. I'll even go a step further, that I always got the impression that he had much more contempt for his fanbase than Axl ever did. Waters has been about as active as Slash has at releasing music on his own. It seems like a big pain in the ass for Gilmore to do anything creatively and I'm not sure he enjoys it or wants to do it.
Would you consider DJ to have written hits? I don't know how big the songs he wrote for Beautiful Creatures and Motley Crue and Sixx AM were. All I know is that I'd take Robin's one song from CD over everything I've heard from DJ. And Robin did get those songwriting credits with NIN that I think, as a whole, are better than most post GN'R members material.
I'd say Mother Goose seems to be the most important member in the band when it comes to writing. Paul isn't a member, just Axl's personal co-song writer.
Both A Momentary Lapse of Reason and The Division Bell have good songs. There's no doubt about Gilmour's talent. It never felt like Floyd to me though, not even bad Floyd. It was like a solo project and to me it showed that Gilmour's "vision" was not at all what I had become accustomed to with him and Waters.
Howard Stern did an interview with Waters last year that was hilarious. Axl should take a page from his book. Yes, he hates Gilmour (least he did for many years) but he's very laid back about it. I actually think he should do one of those tings with him. Stern can definitely ask some uncomfortable questions, but he's "on your side" when doing it and the end product always comes out great. Somebody asking Axl something like how long his penis is in fact a sadly missed aspect in his interviews. That Trunk crap was the biggest joke ever. What a tool!
DJ have made a little bit of impact, but strict material wise I think that's mostly down to there being a plague in rock these days. It's you know, alright, not great. Motley and their ilk always was a very lesser version of GN'R. I prefer Robin by a mile too. To me a guy that says he watches TV in his closet gives me a lot more confidence creatively than a party loving boozer. The more issues the greater the art usually. DJ is a bit Adlerish in that regard.
Pitman is another weirdo like that, as was Tobias. Don't think these are coincidences.
Great points! 
I love CD. The shame with it is that had it been released in 04 the thing would be next to AFD for me. But it's too cluttered, just like I feel UYI has too much filler to be a better album(s) than AFD, but is leaps and bounds better than AFD, musically.
Roger leaving Floyd took all the darkness and sardonic irony away from Floyd's sound, which is exactly why it feels so different, because it is. It's like night and day, literally. David's Floyd is much more lush with beautiful sonic landscapes, very polished and with (skillfully) bright production, which all the credit in the world goes to David and Bob Ezrin for that because I think the production work on TDB is fantastic. They were two vastly different sounds, just like Roger's Floyd was DRASTICALLY different than Syd's, who had a much more wimsical, eccentric, playful and a almost spacey, nightmarish, disturbed quality about it. Water's brought a sophistcated (both lyrically and musically) approach and elevated musical structures that dropped all of Sid's experimentations for Roger's big concepts. You could say it also lost a bit of innocence that Syd brought to Floyd, which is understandable, and became more introspective and cynical. Roger's Floyd was Roger's band and HIS vision. I would compare Roger's Floyd with Axl's GN'R just as much as I would David's. CD is a MUCH more personal and introspective album than any other GN'R album. UYI is very close though. AFD is just a down and dirty rock record with one very personal song on it. That band is dead, just like Syd's Floyd. And any attempt to recreate that would be fake and horrible. I think that's ONE of the reasons I can't stand Snakepit. I appreciate both David and Roger going in completely different directions than going with what "worked" just like I respect Axl, even if you don't like his approach to making music.
And David had bigger balls than Axl. Axl always has the trump card that he created GN'R with Izzy BEFORE Slash and Duff came into the fold. David came into Floyd AFTER they had already become an established band and had nothing to do with its creation.
I like all eras of Floyd. And one of the reason's I'm so damned interested in Axl is that everything he does is a clusterfuck and totally warped ond complicated. I like he's not playing by the rules, no matter how incredibly frustrating it is. And, imo, his music is still that good. CD is an amazing record.
Re: BUMBLEFOOT Says Waiting For A New GUNS N' ROSES Album To Get Done Is '
off topic...listening to the skwerl leak of twat....don't care what anyone says..Robin's subtle solo after the acoustic break is just as good as Bucket's blowout at the end.....that is as good as those two got. F'n awesome together. The outro to twat is as good as the outro to Nov Rain. Overall, nov rain is better but the outros are equal.
and it pisses me off that we can't hear the rest of the chinese sessions. I really believe there are a couple of other tunes there that can stand against twat. 
- Intercourse
- Rep: 212
Re: BUMBLEFOOT Says Waiting For A New GUNS N' ROSES Album To Get Done Is '
Has Bumble been fired yet?
- Me_Wise_Magic
- Rep: 70
Re: BUMBLEFOOT Says Waiting For A New GUNS N' ROSES Album To Get Done Is '
polluxlm wrote:misterID wrote:I liked the Division Bell. And "Marooned" was friggin bad ass. It was almost ritual: Roll a joint, put on Marooned, mind expanded.
If anything, I'd say Axl was Gilmore. Took the name, put out a couple albums, used the band to tour, and rarely puts out any original material. I'll even go a step further, that I always got the impression that he had much more contempt for his fanbase than Axl ever did. Waters has been about as active as Slash has at releasing music on his own. It seems like a big pain in the ass for Gilmore to do anything creatively and I'm not sure he enjoys it or wants to do it.
Would you consider DJ to have written hits? I don't know how big the songs he wrote for Beautiful Creatures and Motley Crue and Sixx AM were. All I know is that I'd take Robin's one song from CD over everything I've heard from DJ. And Robin did get those songwriting credits with NIN that I think, as a whole, are better than most post GN'R members material.
I'd say Mother Goose seems to be the most important member in the band when it comes to writing. Paul isn't a member, just Axl's personal co-song writer.
Both A Momentary Lapse of Reason and The Division Bell have good songs. There's no doubt about Gilmour's talent. It never felt like Floyd to me though, not even bad Floyd. It was like a solo project and to me it showed that Gilmour's "vision" was not at all what I had become accustomed to with him and Waters.
Howard Stern did an interview with Waters last year that was hilarious. Axl should take a page from his book. Yes, he hates Gilmour (least he did for many years) but he's very laid back about it. I actually think he should do one of those tings with him. Stern can definitely ask some uncomfortable questions, but he's "on your side" when doing it and the end product always comes out great. Somebody asking Axl something like how long his penis is in fact a sadly missed aspect in his interviews. That Trunk crap was the biggest joke ever. What a tool!
DJ have made a little bit of impact, but strict material wise I think that's mostly down to there being a plague in rock these days. It's you know, alright, not great. Motley and their ilk always was a very lesser version of GN'R. I prefer Robin by a mile too. To me a guy that says he watches TV in his closet gives me a lot more confidence creatively than a party loving boozer. The more issues the greater the art usually. DJ is a bit Adlerish in that regard.
Pitman is another weirdo like that, as was Tobias. Don't think these are coincidences.
Great points!
I love CD. The shame with it is that had it been released in 04 the thing would be next to AFD for me. But it's too cluttered, just like I feel UYI has too much filler to be a better album(s) than AFD, but is leaps and bounds better than AFD, musically.
Roger leaving Floyd took all the darkness and sardonic irony away from Floyd's sound, which is exactly why it feels so different, because it is. It's like night and day, literally. David's Floyd is much more lush with beautiful sonic landscapes, very polished and with (skillfully) bright production, which all the credit in the world goes to David and Bob Ezrin for that because I think the production work on TDB is fantastic. They were two vastly different sounds, just like Roger's Floyd was DRASTICALLY different than Syd's, who had a much more wimsical, eccentric, playful and a almost spacey, nightmarish, disturbed quality about it. Water's brought a sophistcated (both lyrically and musically) approach and elevated musical structures that dropped all of Sid's experimentations for Roger's big concepts. You could say it also lost a bit of innocence that Syd brought to Floyd, which is understandable, and became more introspective and cynical. Roger's Floyd was Roger's band and HIS vision. I would compare Roger's Floyd with Axl's GN'R just as much as I would David's. CD is a MUCH more personal and introspective album than any other GN'R album. UYI is very close though. AFD is just a down and dirty rock record with one very personal song on it. That band is dead, just like Syd's Floyd. And any attempt to recreate that would be fake and horrible. I think that's ONE of the reasons I can't stand Snakepit. I appreciate both David and Roger going in completely different directions than going with what "worked" just like I respect Axl, even if you don't like his approach to making music.
And David had bigger balls than Axl. Axl always has the trump card that he created GN'R with Izzy BEFORE Slash and Duff came into the fold. David came into Floyd AFTER they had already become an established band and had nothing to do with its creation.
I like all eras of Floyd. And one of the reason's I'm so damned interested in Axl is that everything he does is a clusterfuck and totally warped ond complicated. I like he's not playing by the rules, no matter how incredibly frustrating it is. And, imo, his music is still that good. CD is an amazing record.
I completely agree from where you're coming from.
Re: BUMBLEFOOT Says Waiting For A New GUNS N' ROSES Album To Get Done Is '
Well obviously those who like it will be the ones commenting going on 5 years after it's release. Those who don't like it aren't even bothering to look the songs up. You could say this exact same thing about any band. The comments on the videos are pretty much always overwhelmingly positive years after cause those who don't care for it aren't listening anymore.
Generally true, but that doesn't mean there aren't some stark differences. I went through some of the top VR songs and while there are many positive comments you don't hear any "this is genius". On Axl's songs that phrase is fairly regular. Axl also still has a huge amount of people saying "this is not gnr", so he's actually got a fair bit of negative comments (though not very much about the actual music). People lauding his lyrical abilities is also something that is almost or totally absent from any VR song. In general the VR comments are more even. Not many extremes.
Well I don't take it for much. I haven't posted on a U2 forum in over a year and I'm much more "rabid" U2 fan than Gn'R fan and have way more dedication to U2 than Gn'R. Posting on an "Axl" site is about the debate, the conversation, the opinions. Axl is a cluterfuck of drama. I like Slash's material better but I don't need to go to a forum to discuss things case the wheels stay in motion with Slash, just like they do with U2. I know Slash is doing his thing, like U2 and I like it and aside from that, that's all that matters. There's no doubt many people posting on a Gn'R forum are doing so based on the car crash type drama. To sugest that a person's activity or inactivity on a forum is a measure of how touched they are by the music is a tad ridiculous. You're in essence saying that somone like me is more touched by Axl's music than u2's. Not even remotely the case. If my being here was based on my love for CD I'd have stopped posting in 2008.
Definitely not the music in your case, but you're certainly touched by Axl the man. I'd say the amount of time one chooses to spend on a particular thing says a lot about how much you care for it. If you want drama there's plenty of it to be found but ultimately you like the rest of us spend the majority of that time on Axl. There's a reason I'm not overly interested in knowing what's going on with say Keith Richards or John Lennon. While being in two of my favorite bands their music have not moved me in the necessary degree. That coupled with the drama makes for a powerful combination.
You make it sound as though Slash's productivity is a bad thing. I'll sure as hell take his approach over Axl's 1 album ever 20 years approach. I agree in that I think Slash has done a lot of songs that sound like they coud be good Gn'R songs. What they're missing is a certain voice and that's it really. BUT I hear songs on CD that would've been good if they weren't so Axlized. Terrible production, too many layers, Songs that never go anywhere special, guitar solos that remind you how sorely missed Slash is, songs with no identity, going for the extra mile way too often numerous times in indvidual songs to the point they sound like "try hard" songs. CD with a regular band of singer, drummer, bass, guitar(Slash) and keys would've been great. Slash's stuff with Axl's vocals would be great. They are both missing something BUT in my opinion Axl misses Slash WAY MORE than Slash misses Axl. Slash still makes music I enjoy. Axl not so much.
It is if the end product suffer as a consequence. I'd rather eat at a restaurant once a week than Micky Ds every day. If 1 album in 20 years is what it is I'll take it. I'm paying for a unique product not a regular service.
If you prefer the no nonsense approach of AFD I'll agree that Slash usually accomplishes that, but in no way does that mean Axl is more replaceable. The sheer uniqueness of his instrument attest to that. If GN'R was your favorite band you'd see that no problem.
As for rising above and trying something more.... AFD is a straight ahead, kickass rock record. Simple, powerful, amazing. Leave the forced epics at the door and do what you do. Axl forgot that long ago and it's showed in his inability to recapture the imagination of the public and half his fanbase. At least Slash is trying. If rising above and trying to be something more means doing nothing than fuck that noise.
It's not as straight ahead as many like to call it. The songs vary greatly in structure, tone and epicness. In general it's far ahead of its contemporaries on almost any level. That's why it's the best selling debut album of all time.
You say "your man" is trying. I say "my man" is succeeding.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: BUMBLEFOOT Says Waiting For A New GUNS N' ROSES Album To Get Done Is '
In the modern music industry there's probably a strong case for singles.
There's a case that it's artisticly easier than the overwhelming pressure of developing whole albums at GNR level, not to mention if Axl's into new sounds and stuff - it's probably hard to make them follow on and create a cohesive listening experience together.
It's a different artistic statement I guess, but it's less for the audience to digest, cheaper to develop, and avoids the "cherry pick" sales aspect that apple forced upon us.
I know people say it's quality not quantity - and maybe it's natural for some artists to be more prolific than others....but what I see as a problem is that because he's not playing with the original band - it's hard to justify having the focus be on those past songs - so it's like he either needs to reunite or push forward with a new line up creatively to keep punters happy.
But neither of those happens.
I compare it to megadeth....most people prefer older line ups to the current one....but you have to give them they continually release stuff:
United Abominations (2007)
Endgame (2009)
Thirteen (2011)
Super Collider (2013)
None of these are the "real" megadeth without marty - but it sure as hell scratches the itch...and many people (myself included) have adapted to the new band...and are starting to prefer the new songs and really look forward to the future...
Now maybe it's pointless to say "if axl did this" because maybe he doesn't want to or maybe he can't......but at the end of the day...it's the absence of forward momentum that's toxic to the fans and the band's reputation....at some point you have to ask why Tommy has been in the band 15 years or whatever...why bumble has been around 7 or 8....and DJ 4 or 5...and yet they can't release a single song or bonus track or even some kind of gimic....not trying to be negative....it's just at some point you have to wonder what the problem really is.
