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Re: Doug Goldstein Letter to Axl
It definitely would, but let's not kid ourselves, he'd be ripped whatever he did. He's the "boss", so he gets to take responsibility.
On a personal level and releasing material it would maybe have been better, but a large group of GN'R fans will always hold a grudge. They miss that classic lineup and the blame has to go somewhere.
Re: Doug Goldstein Letter to Axl
For me personally I was fully willing to accept a new version of Guns N' Roses. I've always been a NIN fan so I thought having Robin in the band was cool, always liked the Replacements so I liked that Tommy was on bass. I was excited to see what Guns N' Roses would become and I was more tha willing to support Axl and his new direction whatever that may have been. It was unfortunate that Slash and Duff were gone but back then Axl was the man to me and I had confidence he was going to do great things and I was excited and fully supportive of it.
WOW was I ever wrong. The "grudge" I hold if that's what we want to call it, is that Axl basically forced the hand of the others to the point that leaving Guns N' Roses made more sense than staying and then Axl went on to basically do fuck all. I can't believe there are actualy people who think CD was worth it. I mean seriously CD has been worth all of this? The dissolving of the greatest hard rock band ever(in my opinion) was worth it for a handful of nostalgia tours and one medicore album?
Axl dropped the ball BIG TIME while the other's went on to do something. Even if you don't like what the other's have done at least they moved on and did something. Axl hasn't done a fucking thing. It should be no surprise he gets a ton of shit cause in reality he's earned it.
Re: Doug Goldstein Letter to Axl
I can't believe there are actualy people who think CD was worth it. I mean seriously CD has been worth all of this? The dissolving of the greatest hard rock band ever(in my opinion) was worth it for a handful of nostalgia tours and one medicore album?
That's tough to gauge. I certainly wouldn't say CD made everything worthwhile. I love the album, but I hoped for and expected more to this point and am still hopeful we get more in the future.
I wish the classic lineup never broke up in the first place, but they did. What's done is done. Who's to say if they could have remained intact. There are strong arguments that they couldn't have. Would the creative juices still be flowing after all these years? Would they not have killed one another by now, or themselves? It's simple to look back and say, man I wish it stayed like it was from 87-91 all these years, but that doesn't seem likely to me. People change, situations change, dynamics change, things changed.
You could choose to look at what could have been, in the optimist point of view. Sure that would've been awesome. But that was no guarantee. I'm alright with what we ended up with to a point. A solid effort from VR, followed by a less solid effort. A few solid efforts from Slash solo, especially if you combine the two. And obviously I'm a fan of CD. That's all pretty good stuff. Could it have been better? Sure, no doubt. But, shit happens.
- Mikkamakka
- Rep: 217
Re: Doug Goldstein Letter to Axl
Mikkamakka wrote:polluxlm wrote:CD is better than nothing. At least we got TWAT from it.
On second thought, perhaps an Axl Rose forced to go solo would have given us more material.
Yeah, I agree. I think part of the fan base is to desperate to have "Guns N' Roses" around, whatever that means. They want to get their illusion that their favourite band still exists. The others (me included) are exactly the opposite. We have the name fixation, too, but we "want to protect" our memories and would be happier if the brand weren't used after 1995-1996. Anyway, a serious amount of quality new material under whatever name would give these debates a rest forever.
I think the theory that Axl has run the GNR name into the ground or has tarnished their legacy is way overblown. When the dust settles, people are going to remember GNR from 87-93 and that's it.
He's been working very hard to tarnish the legacy, but I agree, he won't succeed. Guns N' Roses were too big and will be too relevant forever, based on their '87-'93 heyday, so the legacy will survive the last 2 decades of decadence.
However, I do hope Axl changes that and makes people take notice of this era.
That's what we've been waiting for since 1996. I still haven't entirely given up on him, but I'm afraid we believe in his ability to change (or do anything new) way too much. Maybe Axl burnt out too early, but we still cannot face it, however we've got a serious amount of "wake up, it's nostalgia trip" heads-ups in the recent years.
- Intercourse
- Rep: 212
Re: Doug Goldstein Letter to Axl
I think this exerpt from an old interview says it all to me. Here Axl is discussing Izzy's departure and his move to being the top dog in the band.
MUSICIAN: Does that take something out of the band? It seems as if Guns N' Roses has gone from being a shared vision to being your vision. Is that fair?
AXL:
"Yeah, it's somewhat fair. That's definitely the case with Izzy. Izzy wanted the financial rewards and the power rewards of my vision. Izzy's vision was much smaller. The other guys in the band just thought I was crazy. In order to make certain things happen, certain people had to think certain ideas were completely their own. I definitely knew what I wanted. I didn't know quite how to get there. And sometimes the only way to have everybody going the same place is to allow them to think that they're the ones who thought of it. It's not so much that way anymore and it's been real difficult to uncover that reality. It's been hard for people to accept. But it has been a basic reality of Guns N' Roses since the beginning. It just wasn't seen. Because I wasn't someone who had all the answers and all the plans, I just had a vision. I wasn't necessarily someone that people wanted to follow blindly and say, "He's got the plan, let's go." I've finally earned respect from Duff and Slash that wasn't necessarily fully there before. And Slash and I, more than anyone else, are very much a team."
The term "the power rewards of my vision" never left me after I read it. Axl saw GNR as the realisation of his vision which he felt gave him the right to all of the power; I bet Doug really talked that shit up too. I think Axl believed that just having the "vision" was enough, he admits himself above that he couldn't plan how to execute the vision. I bet Doug promised him he'd take care of that part, This tee'd up the exit of Duff and Slash as they (rightly) wanted a say in how the band evolved.
Doug's, creepy crawling letter shows me just what kind of a man he is... He was told by Axl he had replaced Izzy and I bet he figured he'd replace Slash & Duff while he was at it. Axl was so busy with his "art" and his "visions" that he was happy to let this man do the dirty work to enure the "visions" became reality. This would explain Slash's very public loathing of Doug.
Axl bought Doug's BS and ended up with a monster legacy that he couldn't carry alone.
Re: Doug Goldstein Letter to Axl
At this point though, it's way too late to turn back. He's stuck with what has been built up the last decade plus and he has to deal with it.
I don't think he is. He could probably still have some Slash/Loaded level success if he announced that he is no longer continuing this version of Guns N' Roses and is gonna continue performing and releasing material as a solo artist.
