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Re: Guns N' Roses Vs Led Zeppelin
buzzsaw wrote:There seems to be a misconception that your favorite band has to be the best band of all time. Favorite and best/better are two completely different things.
GnR is my favorite band, but I think The Beatles was (were?) the greatest band ever.
Beatles are the most influential and the greatest in terms of songwriting, but I think the likes of Zeppelin eclipsed them in musical talent. Vocals, guitar, bass, drums. Zeppelin was better at every single one of those instruments than the Beatles. But the Beatles had three of the best songwriters ever. They were incredibly prolific (eat your heart out, Axl). And they influenced everyone that came after them, including Zeppelin and GN'R.
Well, I'm on record long ago on not caring about drummers, and I'd debate the vocals and bass being better in LZ. With JP vs GH, to me it's kind of like the Slash vs BH debates...they are very different styles. I agree JP was a technically better guitarist than Harrison by a long shot.
It would actually make a good philosophical discussion about music in general...is it more important to be as technically proficient as possible or is it more important to have excellent songs to work with. I can see both sides of it...a great song can make average musicality sound much better; great musicians can make average songwriting sound great.
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: Guns N' Roses Vs Led Zeppelin
tejastech08 wrote:buzzsaw wrote:There seems to be a misconception that your favorite band has to be the best band of all time. Favorite and best/better are two completely different things.
GnR is my favorite band, but I think The Beatles was (were?) the greatest band ever.
Beatles are the most influential and the greatest in terms of songwriting, but I think the likes of Zeppelin eclipsed them in musical talent. Vocals, guitar, bass, drums. Zeppelin was better at every single one of those instruments than the Beatles. But the Beatles had three of the best songwriters ever. They were incredibly prolific (eat your heart out, Axl). And they influenced everyone that came after them, including Zeppelin and GN'R.
Well, I'm on record long ago on not caring about drummers, and I'd debate the vocals and bass being better in LZ. With JP vs GH, to me it's kind of like the Slash vs BH debates...they are very different styles. I agree JP was a technically better guitarist than Harrison by a long shot.
It would actually make a good philosophical discussion about music in general...is it more important to be as technically proficient as possible or is it more important to have excellent songs to work with. I can see both sides of it...a great song can make average musicality sound much better; great musicians can make average songwriting sound great.
Yes and those two bands are great examples of it. Zeppelin's lyrics weren't great, but they ended up with a lot of great songs because of pure musical talent. I think GN'R falls into this category as well.
Re: Guns N' Roses Vs Led Zeppelin
There seems to be a misconception that your favorite band has to be the best band of all time. Favorite and best/better are two completely different things.
GnR is my favorite band, but I think The Beatles was (were?) the greatest band ever.
Nail on the head here. GNR will historically be amongst the top of the top. No shame in conceding that there are one or two bands that are historically "better" or more important than them, even if they slide in and out of my personal top slot.
Re: Guns N' Roses Vs Led Zeppelin
johndivney wrote:zep didn't accomplish more. gnr did in one album what it took zep to do in 6 or 7, what it took the stones to do in 10 or 12.
imo there's no contest. i love zep. but they're quite easily second best in this discussion.
you don't get points for longevity. in a battle of sheer brilliance it's guns all the way.
A shitload more of Zeppelin's music endures on the radio today than GN'R. More bands by a long shot were influenced by Zeppelin than GN'R. Zeppelin sold three times as many records as GN'R. Please explain how in the world GN'R accomplished more than Zeppelin.
i didn't know that re: sales figures.
i don't know if that's entirely correct re: enduring on radio. i must confess i don't much listen to radio but when i do i think i'm more likely to hear GnR than Zeppelin, over here at least. or when i'm out a bar or a club i'd defo hear GnR more regularly than Zep, i mean SCoM is still a staple, i don't think that's true of any Zep (tho i concede your point that they've a larger selection of material from which to select). i hear more vintage stones even than zeppelin tbh.
re: influence
well that's a sticky subject. it's an unfair one to make i think. for one there's plenty of influential acts i think are shite so i dunno what it really has to do w/the debate. secondly, yea there's plenty of merit in zep's legacy but it's unfair simply because they went before GnR so you really can't compare on that basis either.
also, GnR were p much the full stop on hard rock - or at least the last mega band from the genre. they in effect ended it. no-one really came after them as there was really nowhere to go: and they couldn't exactly imitate the GnR attitude cause it's almost unique thanks to the nutcase in charge. whereas w/zeppelin, any blues-based band almost ha to go thru zeppelin at somepoint - gnr don't have the same exact frame of reference, it's harder to trace GnR's lineage cause it's so scattershot and all encompassing, zeppelin belong to a more defined territory & and therefore more recognisable in other bands. imo you're argument actually works in gnr's favour as it shows how different & special they were, they were perfect & inimitable whereas p much anyone can follow zeppelin's approach of modifying old blues licks long out of copyright.
(is it also worth mentioning here the cross-gender appeal gnr have as opposed to zeppelin??)
but basically, to go back to the original question & my original point: when you're as perfectly formed as they were '87-'93 it doesn't really matter what else happens or whatever other criteria you wanna hurl at them as an obstacle. it's the quality of the material that makes the case watertight.
i'm not saying zeppelin weren't great it's more than GnR were perfect. & yea they blew it but what they made, what they accomplished, w/AFD & across Lies & UYI put them above p much everyone in hard/classic rock & maybe rock n roll.
if it came down to a debate on just rock n roll i'd maybe take umbrage w/GnR being the best of the best but in terms of classic/hard rock i think they stand that little bit above everyone else.
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: Guns N' Roses Vs Led Zeppelin
zeppelin belong to a more defined territory & and therefore more recognisable in other bands. imo you're argument actually works in gnr's favour as it shows how different & special they were, they were perfect & inimitable whereas p much anyone can follow zeppelin's approach of modifying old blues licks long out of copyright.
These comments are pretty ignorant. Zeppelin was more dynamic and versatile than GN'R. I'm starting to wonder how much of Zeppelin's music you've bothered listening to.
Re: Guns N' Roses Vs Led Zeppelin
i've heard everything.
i didn't mean it as an insult, & you shouldn't take it so personal..
what i meant is basically "talent borrows, genius steals". (hell my favourite songwriter of all time is bob dylan ffs!) zeppelin weren't the first or the last to use that blueprint as a launchpad.
i'm just saying in terms of their influence it's easier to trace their blues origins than it is say GnR's punk infused classic rock approach, where you've got different influences less evident than in zeppelin's [initial] approach. & that's a factor in why zep would be considered more influential - it's easier to pilfer muddy waters & robert johnson than it is to trace the link between johnny thunders & elton john, y'know? there's more bands follow zeppelin's trajectory & influences than there are GnR's.
in terms of being more versatile i'd maybe concede that point too, but w/the amendment that those guys were professional session men before they were led zeppelin. gnr never had the professional musician background of those guys.
but it also leads to another point that zeppelin had 10yrs of evolution in them whereas, again to go back to my original point, GnR were perfectly formed on AFD & UYI. the breadth of ground covered across those works is astonishing (& a great accomplishment on it's own!) & they don't get enough credit for it, the songwriting evolution on UYI in particular from the three main guys is ridiculous really. so i don't really think Zeppelin were more 'dynamic', especially in the direction of the likes of DTJ/PTU sitting alongside Coma/Locomotive w/more traditional rock fare like RNDTH/Don't Cry.
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: Guns N' Roses Vs Led Zeppelin
i've heard everything.
i didn't mean it as an insult, & you shouldn't take it so personal..what i meant is basically "talent borrows, genius steals". (hell my favourite songwriter of all time is bob dylan ffs!) zeppelin weren't the first or the last to use that blueprint as a launchpad.
i'm just saying in terms of their influence it's easier to trace their blues origins than it is say GnR's punk infused classic rock approach, where you've got different influences less evident than in zeppelin's [initial] approach. & that's a factor in why zep would be considered more influential - it's easier to pilfer muddy waters & robert johnson than it is to trace the link between johnny thunders & elton john, y'know? there's more bands follow zeppelin's trajectory & influences than there are GnR's.in terms of being more versatile i'd maybe concede that point too, but w/the amendment that those guys were professional session men before they were led zeppelin. gnr never had the professional musician background of those guys.
but it also leads to another point that zeppelin had 10yrs of evolution in them whereas, again to go back to my original point, GnR were perfectly formed on AFD & UYI. the breadth of ground covered across those works is astonishing (& a great accomplishment on it's own!) & they don't get enough credit for it, the songwriting evolution on UYI in particular from the three main guys is ridiculous really. so i don't really think Zeppelin were more 'dynamic', especially in the direction of the likes of DTJ/PTU sitting alongside Coma/Locomotive w/more traditional rock fare like RNDTH/Don't Cry.
Blues was only an early part of Zeppelin's sound though. They transformed into something a lot more versatile than that over the course of their career. Most of the people influenced by them would point to the later material. Axl himself has talked about D'yer Mak'er being the first Zeppelin song he really connected to. That's a song heavily influenced by reggae.
Stairway To Heaven is probably the most played classic rock song ever. It's the song Slash first played to learn guitar. I wouldn't call that song a blues track though. Inspired by the blues? Sure. But so was everything GN'R did on Appetite and every single rock and roll song ever made for that matter. GN'R certainly weren't afraid of standing on other people's shoulders to make music. Sadly, one of their most popular songs today on iTunes is a shitty studio version of their Knocking On Heaven's Door cover. The early live versions of it were miles better than what ended up on UYI.
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: Guns N' Roses Vs Led Zeppelin
I'm a huge GN'R fan obviously but I'm certain Zeppelin will win the poll (on classicrock.com) and I believe they should.
MYGNR won't let that happen. GN'R already beat the Stones on there. 
Re: Guns N' Roses Vs Led Zeppelin
People over complicate these types of things. Which band do you like better? Vote for that band. It doesn't always have to be so technical. You don't have to gage influence or sales or impact. Seriously which band is better honestly means which band do you like better. Its not hard. I don't care who you vote for but I don't get why people make things like this so complicated or feel so conflicted. The funniest is "I like Guns N' Roses better but had to vote for Zeppelin" 
ok then.
