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Re: Izzys No Show At RNR Hall Of Fame
Seems like quite a few fans were pissed that Izzy didn't show for the RNRHOF, made worse by the fact that he showed up with GNR at a private gig not long after.
Were fans pissed because of the no show? Or just because he played with GNR so soon after?
I wasn't really following GNR at the time so this has probably been discussed before, but I'm curious why I keep reading comments like "Izzy is Axls bitch", "Izzys a money whore" etc. (Not really reading this here, more at the larger forums)
Izzys always shied away from publicity so shouldn't his no-show have been anticipated?
The fact he played with GNR shortly after means nothing to me. He's played with new GNR before, and I've assumed it's just his way of touring without the extra hassle - plays when he wants, no contractual obligations etc. Just like how he has turned up to play with VR, Snakepit, Adlers Appetite etc - all of which were minimum fuss, minimum media etc.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Izzys No Show At RNR Hall Of Fame
I can try an explain why it pissed me off.
I thought it would be nice if old GNR could reassemble (even if not playing) to stand in the one room together to acknowledge that they changed history together, and to receive what amounts to a life-time achievement award and a thank-you from the rock community for their efforts.
Side issue: Yes the Hall is a flawed institution, yes it's just about profit, yes it's illogical who they let in and don't but IN THE ABSENCE OF A BETTER FUNCTIONING SYSTEM - the hall is pretty much the mechanism we have to celebrate lifetime achievements.
So I wanted them to show up.
Then I look at who didn't show up: Axl, Izzy and Dizzy.
I then look at the reasons:
Axl : Agree with it or not - and with his methods or not - he's been working in his own way to establish a modern GNR and the current line up as GNR - so appearing with old GNR in any context ruins that. He was in a no win situation. So while I may or may not agree with it - he AT LEAST HAS A REASON to not be there. Also - without going into speculation - it's obvious he's pretty hurt/angry about the history with Slash - and given what we know of him - it's likely showing up and the subsequent drama would have been likely to be highly unhelpful emotionally.
Dizzy : Well. He plays with modern GNR. While a great musician Axl gave him his big break. The old guys were never entirely accepting of his presence in the band anyway - and if he upsets Axl and or dynamics with the new line up he's pissing on his livelihood. Regrettable - but again - he HAS A REASON not to show up.
Izzy : Doesn't appear to have a logical reason to avoid it. Seems it was based on either:
(a) General Flakeness in his personality (unacceptable - he can be a flake and drive his bus 364 days a year - it's not so much of an ask for him to give something back for a lifetime of wealth and accolade that the fanbase gave him).
(b) Can not deal with drama. (Again - after 25 years of privilege you think he could deal with a little bit of awkwardness if it ment a lot to his fans. Further - many say he was waiting to see what the others did - but he's always been the bridge between Axl and Slash and if he'd been proactive maybe more would have got done).
So my issues are:
1. As above - he doesn't seem to have a very good reason not to go.
2. He just comes across to me now as a bit selfish:
(a) From a certain point of view it was his decision to bail from GNR rather than work with the rest of the band to keep Axl within some kind of framework that really snowballed the eventual trainwreck of GNR history. It's not fair to blame him entirely but it's sure as hell a factor.
(b) There's a lot of "Izzy's a Flake" stories going around - quit VR cos he can't deal with a singer - walked out to get a coffee from one of his own bands and never returned - no one knows where he is cos he's just kinda driving around or whatever. Did a casual job on the UYI sessions from some accounts. Can't seem, to commit to anything. We all have our flaws - but Izzy's general "too cool for school" doesn't buy him as pass from me this time - IMO out of respect to fans he SHOULD have been at RRHOF - and while it's his choice what he does career wise otherwise - just being random about the hall isn't acceptable.
and lastly
(c) I don't mind that he plays with Axl in and of itself. But I mind elements of it. He was the loudest of the "it's not really GNR without the full old line up - even steve" guys in several interviews. So it annoys me that:
(i) Axl forgives him for the brutal things Izzy said about Axl - yet Slash who is generally way more diplomatic is the devil.
and
(ii) Izzy can't deal with Axl - except when he's getting paid to appear. If he can show up at a london gig for a pay check then I think he could respect his legions of supporters by showing up with the hall and dealing with whatever bullshit happened then. it's not consistent. If Axl is this problem singer who makes Izzy fear ever working with singers, and if he thinks so highly of their past accomplishments, it's annoying that he forgets these problems when the price is right.
So summing up.
He seems to have NO REASON to do what amounted to significantly detracting from the night - and it's YET ANOTHER example of him acting in a selfish, entitled and spoilt brat flakish manner under his "too cool" ethos.
And this time it just doesn't wash with me. Him no showing that event is like 20 times more offensive than Axl to me.
Re: Izzys No Show At RNR Hall Of Fame
First off, Monkey that's a well thought out and reasoned arguement. Most posters would have just put your last two short paragraphs and been done with it. They'd have just sounded butthurt about him not showing, you did a great job of explaining what made you feel that way. And even though I don't totally agree, I can at least totally see where you're coming from.
That said, I don't think it's a coincidence that Izzy's press release came out a day or two after Axl's. To me Izzy's no show is no more complicated than him saying: "If it's not going to be everybody then what's the point?"
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Izzys No Show At RNR Hall Of Fame
^ hehe...thanks I realise I am butthurt...just trying to express why to share the pain 
As for "if it's not everyone then what's the point" - I would give him a pass for that if he shunned all other GNR related functions other than an entire reunion.
But if there's a point to doing Nightrain in London with DJ and Bumble, then there's a point to playing Patience with Matt and Duff at the RRHOF.
Which is less legitimate if he's purist about GNR?
Neither of them is "real gnr" - so to me it seems to either come down to him being paid or he's just too random and doesn't give a fuck.
And I don't like either of those reasons
Re: Izzys No Show At RNR Hall Of Fame
Here we're seeing the same thing opposite ways. The fact that the things other than the Hall Of Fame would be considered less "legitimate" is what makes me feel how I feel too.
The whole world was waiting for the HOF reunion, but outside of places like these boards nobody really knows that he played with Axl in London, or that Duff has played bass on his last few solo albums, jamming at this Adler gig, or even really the track he's on for Slash's album.
It's the difference between jamming with his friends and the can of worms that would be opened with a almost full reunion at something as high profile as the HOF. If Axl had been there, the can of worms might have been fruitful in the end.
Re: Izzys No Show At RNR Hall Of Fame
That was a great post Monkey, serious kudos for the effort 
I know I'm blinded by my Izzy-tainted glasses but your post does go a long way to explaining to an Izzy diehard why there has been this sudden change amongst the fanbase.
Still wearing those glasses however:-
(a) General Flakeness in his personality (unacceptable - he can be a flake and drive his bus 364 days a year - it's not so much of an ask for him to give something back for a lifetime of wealth and accolade that the fanbase gave him).
Izzy has still turned up at plenty of GNR-related events throughout the years, including the 20th anniversary gig I linked, and played with just about every GNR member past and present. The only difference (that I can see) between previous gigs and the RNRHOF is the media spotlight that the latter brings, which Izzy hasn't been attracted to for at least 20 years.
(b) Can not deal with drama. (Again - after 25 years of privilege you think he could deal with a little bit of awkwardness if it ment a lot to his fans. Further - many say he was waiting to see what the others did - but he's always been the bridge between Axl and Slash and if he'd been proactive maybe more would have got done).
I don't really buy the "meaning a lot to the fans" excuse. Fans have had more than enough opportunities to see Izzy over the years, whether with GNR, VR, Adler etc. Izzy being a possible bridge between Axl/Slash I can accept as a valid reason, though I honestly don't believe that Axl would have shown up if Izzy announced he intended to. Do you think Axl would have shown up if Izzy said he would? Or, by proactive do you mean Izzy should have tried to bring Axl around to the idea and possibly burnt bridges between the two again?
(i) Axl forgives him for the brutal things Izzy said about Axl - yet Slash who is generally way more diplomatic is the devil.
It's not Izzys fault if Axl still bears a grudge with Slash. Izzy may have slung his fair share of mud in Axls direction but for all we know Izzy may have picked up the phone and apologised (something Axl is still waiting for Slash to do).
(ii) Izzy can't deal with Axl - except when he's getting paid to appear. If he can show up at a london gig for a pay check then I think he could respect his legions of supporters by showing up with the hall and dealing with whatever bullshit happened then. it's not consistent.
We don't know Izzy's fee so calling it a paycheck may not be accurate. I know that having his expenses paid by GNR was a small price for Axl to pay if Izzy's appearance helped validate "new gnr" to the masses though. For years Axl faced a wall of negative press, eg "its not GNR", whilst Izzy carried this "too cool" media presence without even trying. Paying a couple of grand for Izzys apparent approval of "new gnr", whilst at the same time allowing Izzy to tour without the aforementioned lack of obligation/media etc, seems like a win-win for both parties involved.
I appreciate that a lot of fans cared about the the RNRHOF, but as an Izzy diehard I can't tell you how happy I am that he didn't turn up. Had Axl agreed to appear it could have been a different story, but without Axl it was just another corporate gig which nobody seemed to take notice of.
Izzy has said plenty of times before that he's open to a reunion of the original lineup, and I hope that his opinion hasn't changed. When Axl is ready I expect Izzy will be there for the fans too, but in the mean time I don't think he should be hated just because he didn't show up at the RNRHOF
Re: Izzys No Show At RNR Hall Of Fame
I appreciate that a lot of fans cared about the the RNRHOF, but as an Izzy diehard I can't tell you how happy I am that he didn't turn up. Had Axl agreed to appear it could have been a different story, but without Axl it was just another corporate gig which nobody seemed to take notice of.
Now that part I disagree with. I'm always glad to see any combination of these guys jamming together, but if I'm going to choose I'd rather see him playing the HOF than a private gig with Axl's band (am I remembering that wrong? I think he did that).
I'm not at all happy he didn't do it, quite the opposite in fact, but I think I see why he didn't.
- Intercourse
- Rep: 212
Re: Izzys No Show At RNR Hall Of Fame
Here's my take..
Izzy turned down Duff's request for the guys to drop the shit and get back together one last time to give thanks to the fans for the wild ride.
Steven almost begged for this to happen.
Despite this, Izzy wouldn't play ball, not as a nod to his old mates or to those who followed his career in GNR helping give him his charmed life. Remember, Izzy cited the loss of Stephen as the start of his move out of GNR so why not help an old (but damaged) friend for one night of his life that he has requested for so long?
Now, people are free to denigrate the night and what it meant; for sure and there is a lot to complain about the RNRHOF (its business model etc,..)
BUT a few hours out of Izzy’s life to acknowledge and affirm all that was good about old GNR and the great days that were had was all that was requested, yet that was too much.
FINE.
I was happy to build a bridge and get over myself, if the man was consistent and applying the same ideals across the board.
But then he goes and plays a fucking wedding with the very band he was driven out of.
I’m a part time wedding singer and it’s full of guys like me, failed musicians.
Now at GNRs level its different for sure, but the same thing applies: wedding bands live at the lowest end of the artistic spectrum..you’re just a music waiter for the bride and groom, no matter what the paycheck.
So in summary, I was annoyed ‘cause Izzy would take a check to be a wedding guitar player, in a band he left because of intolerable conditions of work placed upon him BUT wouldn’t spend 15 minutes on stage with guys he is still friends with and give his old fans a thrill.
Re: Izzys No Show At RNR Hall Of Fame
I was annoyed ‘cause Izzy would take a check to be a wedding guitar player, in a band he left because of intolerable conditions of work placed upon him BUT wouldn’t spend 15 minutes on stage with guys he is still friends with and give his old fans a thrill.
Again though the wedding was a low key thing. Had Duffs open invite for the one night reunion not been so high profile Izzy may have been more open to it - just like he was the one pushing for him/Duff to share vocals in VR, buy a shitty old van and just go out touring the club scene. He bailed when Slash vetoed that idea and called in the VH1 executives to make a documentary about finding a singer.
Izzy hasn't done a live solo show since 2000 (a four date mini-tour of Japan) and before that it was the Ju Ju Hounds world tour in 1993. That is something which pisses me off, because I've never had the opportunity to hear a single solo song of his live. I'd love a solo show or two, but I know its not going to happen. I don't really care that Izzy bailed on the HOF because in my opinion GNR fans have had more than there share of opportunities to see him play those old songs and that one night wasn't any different (except for the media spotlight).
Cheers for all the good responses guys
