You are not logged in. Please register or login.
- Topics: Active | Unanswered
Re: Slash on Piers Morgan
You were comparing a single to a guy's work that was never written as a single. Yeah...
And you've made the "Chart success as a good way to judge quality" before. You've been saying this in the thread:
"Anything that sells as much as CD did and drops off the face of the earth after 2 weeks definately reflects the music quality... It matters what the people that buy music think. They thought meh."
Yeah, you keep telling yourself that you didn't say that, and your great mind reading abilities.
Re: Slash on Piers Morgan
You were comparing a single to a guy's work that was never written as a single. Yeah...
And you've made the "Chart success as a good way to judge quality" before. You've been saying this in the thread:
"Anything that sells as much as CD did and drops off the face of the earth after 2 weeks definately reflects the music quality... It matters what the people that buy music think. They thought meh."
Yeah, you keep telling yourself that you didn't say that, and your great mind reading abilities.
Nope. Find where I said the bolded part and bump the post. Never going to find it, but feel free to look if you want. I also didn't bring up TWAT, you did.
Something that sells alot immediately and stops selling immediately tells the story. To you, it tells some made up story. To me it says people didn't like what they heard. the funny thing is, neither of us will be able to prove the other is wrong, yet here you are continuing to try to do so. Crazy, but keep going if you must.
Re: Slash on Piers Morgan
If the search function worked better I wouldn't mind wading through years of posts to find it. But you made it before.
Albums that flopped. Notably, sold a lot initially then fell off the face of the earth:
Beach Boys Pet Sounds
Velvet Underground with Nico
Pearl Jam Yield
Lou Reed Berlin
David Bowie Low
Weezer Pinkerton
The Beastie Boys Paul’s Boutique
Nine Inch Nails The Fragile
REM New Adventures In Hi-Fi
Of course, those all sucked. People hated them.
Oh, you brought up TWAT in that chart success was somehow so important, when slagging Paul....
Re: Slash on Piers Morgan
If the search function worked better I wouldn't mind wading through years of posts to find it. But you made it before.
Albums that flopped. Notably, sold a lot initially then fell off the face of the earth:
Beach Boys Pet Sounds
Velvet Underground with Nico
Pearl Jam Yield
Lou Reed Berlin
David Bowie Low
Weezer Pinkerton
The Beastie Boys Paul’s Boutique
Nine Inch Nails The Fragile
REM New Adventures In Hi-Fi
Of course, those all sucked. People hated them.
Oh, you brought up TWAT in that chart success was somehow so important, when slagging Paul....
Never mentioned TWAT until you did. I said Paul's writing isn't so good given what he had to work with. If I cared enough, I'd get the exact quote, but I don't.
Considering Pet Sounds (marginally) and New Adventures in Hi-Fi are the only two I like at all, I'd say that in general, it supports my theory. I believe most of those albums do have a good single on them though, but again, I don't care enough to do the homework to find out. The point is if an album comes out and sells well then stops selling, people aren't impressed with what they heard. Even if all those albums were great albums (which they aren't), it would still do nothing to refute my point...but you know that already.
Re: Slash on Piers Morgan
No, you see things how you want, that's what your point is. Never mind reality. But you have proved one thing: It's all about your own personal taste and that's what you base your opinions on. Except you try to package it as fact. Go down with your ship, dude, your point has been sunk.
Most of those albums are considered the artists best work. It has nothing to do with chart success.
You brought up chart success with You're A Lie, I didn't. So I mentioned TWAT. Showing "success" is basically meaningless in regards to quality.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Slash on Piers Morgan
Interesting what you say about Izzy/Paul misterID....
to be honest, and this will shit off the izzy fans, I've always looked at it in reverse, the others didn't so much need him so much as he needed them.
Yes the izzy songs on the record are amazing. But what would those songs be without Axl's harmonies and without the massive slash solos? To me they'd be beyond bland.
Decent structures but they're like blank canvasses waiting for Axl and Slash.
Same with Paul...his songs came up ok....because of Axl....but I don't think they'd be any good without Axl....just like unused potential.....
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Slash on Piers Morgan
You're picking apart the quality of the playing/performance, not the quality of the song. And Axl is nowhere near his old self singing. Sorry.
He seems to have lost his voice live which is a shame.
But I'm talking moments.
That's what music is to me.
That moment when the drums kick back in and it feels perfect. That scream that says what needed to be said....that guitar solo that says what words can't say....seconds in songs that make them genius...that's what GNR is to me.
When I look at it like that, I'd suggest there's as many bad ass Slash moments outside of GNR as there are in it. And I think *some of* the best Axl moments come in Chinese Democracy...
I love the old band and the old songs but I think we've mythologised them. When you go back and listen to AFD you can hear the same sorts of riffs and solos that Slash plays on his new album. Just with a more appropriate singer....not saying it's not a great album....but it's not really that different from what he does now.....likewise....catcher/twat/sod....they're not all that removed from UYI axl tracks at all.....
So i find it odd that so many of us seem to enjoy one and hate the other, or love the old stuff and hate everything after, when it's all very very similar at a foundational level...
I'd be interested if AFD had never been made if Axl and Slash made it tonight...what you'd all think....
Re: Slash on Piers Morgan
But Monkey, you would not have had the majority of great songs on AFD or UYI without Izzy. I'm not saying he's this great songwriter, but he's great for not only what he does, but also his ear for fleshing out other's ideas, which is why he was so important to Axl. Not just in songwriting. You had Izzy backing Axl up on making songs like SCOM and Patience, etc. to actually get made.
Izzy could be bland (I know that's not exactly what you're saying) but AFD and UYI would not exist without Izzy. THEY NEEDED IZZY WAY MORE THAN HE NEEDED THEM.
Izzy was fine with being the artist he is today. The others guys wanted to be big. They couldn't have done it without Izzy. And we have no idea how well Slash and Paul could have worked together.
Slash on his own is not a good songwriter. Anastasia, the best song on that album, is a mess, really. Axl and Izzy could take something with so many ideas and make it work. Slash doesn't have that. It could have been trimmed up, edited and restructured to be fantastic. Now its just good.
It's the reason Axl doesn't like being sole songwriter, he needs writing partners.
Re: Slash on Piers Morgan
I personally think TWAT is the most overrated song in GNR history. verses are nonsensical and dumb.. he rhymes all with *Gulp* all 3 times... Chorus completely is a mess and doesn't fit with the music. It has 2 good moments.. outro screams and bucket solo.
that hardly makes a song great or classic.
the solo is even overrated due to the "Cheerleader" effect and the fact it is the best solo on a mediocre guitar album.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Slash on Piers Morgan
ID...I see what you're getting at...although I do disagree a little....
Perhaps in a way Izzy was the balance to both their problems. I think Slash can be a little too much straight ahead rock at times - sometimes it's great but sometimes the song structures are a little obvious. But then I think Axl's genius for editing and restructuring songs can also go a little too far and did with some of the Chinese Democracy numbers...
It's hard to know the real reason for things.
As i'm pretty sure if they got on, Axl and Slash could make a kick ass song without the need for anyone else. Hell coma was kickass...and I'm sure they could make albums of stuff like that in theory.
But then I also wonder if Axl ran out of hard rock lyrics. Don't mean it as a diss. But like AFD rockers are about life on the street. The UYI rockers are mostly about his transition to fame. I wonder if slash showed up with a snakepit full of songs and Axl just didn't have anything in mind anymore. Some call that slash's riff's being generic, others call it Axl being inspired by industrial, but I wonder if he was just creatively done in terms of the hard rock style....
It's notable that while chinese is a fucking kickass album to me, there's no GNR style hard rock tracks, the whole album is very much like UYI style Axl ballads, there's a little kind industrial rock like shacker and riad..but even those are sort of more dance inspired in the way the lyrics work...or IF the World which is more of a bond theme....amazing album....but there's no "perfect crimes" on there...and I think it might be that axl said what he has to say in that style....
