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Re: Slash on Piers Morgan
buzzsaw wrote:Sky Dog wrote:enough.....it has nothing to do with the "quality" of the music. Popular music is just that...popular. Try reading the definitions of the 2 words. Velvet Underground's first album sold less than CD and is one of the top ten most influential albums of all time. A fuckin awesome record. I don't think CD is anywhere near that but it is a solid album with a very coherent lyric theme. Again, I am not a big fan of the guitars but the keyboard work, lyrics, orchestration, bass and drums are pretty killer. The mess of guitars is the weak link. Just my 2.
You're wrong. It ABSOLUTELY has to do with the quality of the music. It's not like it didn't sell, so nobody heard it and it's great. It sold huge numbers in 2 weeks and people weren't impressed. You're comparing apples to oranges.
You don't tell me I'm wrong!....meh. Have a nice weekend. Just played 4 hours of tennis and am headed to a Last Waltz viewing party. Virgil Cane is the name.....:cool:
Sorry...don't make statements like it has nothing to do with the quality of the album when it sold as much as it did initially. You can claim it wasn't solely because of the quality of the music, but the statement you made is factually wrong. That's not just my opinion, it's a fact. With as many sales as they had early on, a great album would have sold on word of mouth regardless of the lack of promotion. A great album would have continued to sell over the 4 years of tours because people going to the shows loved what they heard.
I can't make this stuff up...it is what it is.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Slash on Piers Morgan
Slash is playing better than the 80s. That is clear. He's not playing better material than the 80s. Axl isn't singing better or writing better than the 80s. It's cool that you love the album, but I don't see how anyone in their right mind could make that claim. That may be the dumbest thing written here (and I like you monkey, sorry). The only thing that is crystal clear is that they both needed others helping them tinker with songs to get songs to an elite level.
I dunno Buzz..something has started to evolve in me in the way I listen to these albums.
I can't tell you how many times I've listened to AFD or UYI tracks, over the years. I fucking love those albums and those songs. So keep that in mind when you read this....
But recently when I hear them I start to notice things.
GNR was magic..but the records themselves don't always capture that magic that we all loved live. At the time they did because all other bands and their records were so much less good...but when you put GNR on tape vs GNR in our minds and in our memories of every event....the tape starts to come up short.
Double Talking Jive....the studio version...well it's just bland compared to what Slash did live on the illusion tour.
The welcome to the jungle scream. Compared to the way Axl's screamed it out sometimes in the past...at some of the more historically epic shows...well...the studio cut isn't indicative of what could have been done.
Some of my absolute favourite songs, like You Could be Mine, flawless song I would have said, but, now I wonder, if I listen to it directly after a modern Slash song...sure the song itself is still better...but the playing sounds a lot clunkier...you can literally hear it's the same techniques slash uses now but when he was less good at it.
It's the same with Axl...if you get out UYI and have a good listen and even AFD you can hear he always did the layering stuff he did on the CD vocals...just it's in a cruder less evolved form on UYI.
The mistake is to think GNR ended. It's just divided like in the dark crystal 
You can still listen to use your illusion 3 by mixing a playlist of Slash's rockers, next to Axl's ballads...and the shit sounds nearly the same....just with lesser drummers and bass players
When you think of everything they've done, and then look for the passages where they shine. Well....there's no where on the old stuff where Axl does anything like a TWAT or an IRS scream...he hits similar notes in passing in some songs..but there's nothing quite as epic....and same with slash....love the old songs...but he plays rings around them on his guitar now....
Re: Slash on Piers Morgan
buzzsaw wrote:Slash is playing better than the 80s. That is clear. He's not playing better material than the 80s. Axl isn't singing better or writing better than the 80s. It's cool that you love the album, but I don't see how anyone in their right mind could make that claim. That may be the dumbest thing written here (and I like you monkey, sorry). The only thing that is crystal clear is that they both needed others helping them tinker with songs to get songs to an elite level.
I dunno Buzz..something has started to evolve in me in the way I listen to these albums.
I can't tell you how many times I've listened to AFD or UYI tracks, over the years. I fucking love those albums and those songs. So keep that in mind when you read this....
But recently when I hear them I start to notice things.
GNR was magic..but the records themselves don't always capture that magic that we all loved live. At the time they did because all other bands and their records were so much less good...but when you put GNR on tape vs GNR in our minds and in our memories of every event....the tape starts to come up short.
Double Talking Jive....the studio version...well it's just bland compared to what Slash did live on the illusion tour.
The welcome to the jungle scream. Compared to the way Axl's screamed it out sometimes in the past...at some of the more historically epic shows...well...the studio cut isn't indicative of what could have been done.
Some of my absolute favourite songs, like You Could be Mine, flawless song I would have said, but, now I wonder, if I listen to it directly after a modern Slash song...sure the song itself is still better...but the playing sounds a lot clunkier...you can literally hear it's the same techniques slash uses now but when he was less good at it.
It's the same with Axl...if you get out UYI and have a good listen and even AFD you can hear he always did the layering stuff he did on the CD vocals...just it's in a cruder less evolved form on UYI.
The mistake is to think GNR ended. It's just divided like in the dark crystal
When you think of everything they've done, and then look for the passages where they shine. Well....there's no where on the old stuff where Axl does anything like a TWAT or an IRS scream...he hits similar notes in passing in some songs..but there's nothing quite as epic....and same with slash....love the old songs...but he plays rings around them on his guitar now....
You're picking apart the quality of the playing/performance, not the quality of the song. And Axl is nowhere near his old self singing. Sorry.
Re: Slash on Piers Morgan
misterID wrote:buzzsaw wrote:it sold enough because of the name the first two weeks to get recognition if it was that good. Reviews would have gotten more people to check it out since they were positive. Nobody said music quality was why it didn't sell, we said it has something to do with it. That's not assuming, that's to be expected given the facts.
If anything, the album should have sold more, it's surprising it sold as much as it did, given the facts of its release.
We're just in two different camps as to how strong the GN'R name is since the 90s flame out in the United States. I'm not saying it didn't help it, but I don't think it's as strong here as you guys might think.
There's nothing surprising about what it sold. It did exactly what I said it would do. It sold huge, got a lukewarm reception (yes, based partially on quality) and dropped off the face of the earth. Even the reviews couldn't get people to buy it. Word of mouth clearly wasn't happening, which would have happened if the people that bought it thought it was a great album). People have been going to shows hearing some of the music for 4 years and that hasn't helped any. I'm not sure how you can interpret that as anything other than people not being impressed with the material.
You said it would never be released, too. Everyone who saw how it was being released knew what was going to happen, you didn't say anything profound or new. It was stated very clear, with a lot of people expressing concerns. especially being available only through BB. A lot of us were upset with Axl for how it was rolled out. People were very happy to see it was actually released.
Again, it's ridiculous to equate chart success with album quality, or if an album is good or bad. Being popular doesn't mean its good.
You want people to buy your theories but you're refusing to accept anything else. Sorry, you're theory isn't holding up.
Re: Slash on Piers Morgan
You're all insane to me.
I can't believe people listen to songwriting like Madagascar, There was a Time etc and say that it's a weak album.
Slash has shat out so many killer GNR worthy riffs since the band broke up that it's starting to eclipse his GNR performances.
If Axl and Slash had been able to keep writing together and remained friends we would have albums that destroy AFD and UYI by now. At least in the studio both of them are playing better than in the 80s I think. Slash in chops, Axl in songwriting and passion.
It's not about Slash not being able to write a great riff or solo, it's about songwriting. Axl and Slash were not Mick and Keith, that was Axl and Izzy. They needed that third guy to help flesh out ideas and construct songs. Axl tried to bring in Paul Huge, Slash refused to work with him, saying that Paul was his biggest problem with Axl. Paul went on to help write and develop some of CD's best songs. So who knows what could have happened there.
Re: Slash on Piers Morgan
buzzsaw wrote:misterID wrote:If anything, the album should have sold more, it's surprising it sold as much as it did, given the facts of its release.
We're just in two different camps as to how strong the GN'R name is since the 90s flame out in the United States. I'm not saying it didn't help it, but I don't think it's as strong here as you guys might think.
There's nothing surprising about what it sold. It did exactly what I said it would do. It sold huge, got a lukewarm reception (yes, based partially on quality) and dropped off the face of the earth. Even the reviews couldn't get people to buy it. Word of mouth clearly wasn't happening, which would have happened if the people that bought it thought it was a great album). People have been going to shows hearing some of the music for 4 years and that hasn't helped any. I'm not sure how you can interpret that as anything other than people not being impressed with the material.
You said it would never be released, too. Everyone who saw how it was being released knew what was going to happen, you didn't say anything profound or new. It was stated very clear, with a lot of people expressing concerns. especially being available only through BB. A lot of us were upset with Axl for how it was rolled out. People were very happy to see it was actually released.
Again, it's stupid to equate chart success with album quality, or if an album is good or bad.
You want people to buy your theories but you're refusing to accept anything else. Sorry, you're theory isn't holding up.
Oh, it's holding up just fine. Nobody has refuted any of it, mostly because they can't. I have seen you and others make other excuses, but none of them refute the curiosity factor that led to huge intial sales followed by lukewarm interest in the material resulting in it disappearing from the charts at what may have been a record rate.
If the album was as good as you claim it is, it would have been more successful based on word of mouth alone considering the initial sales. People didn't have to go to BB to buy it...there's this thing called the internet where you can buy stuff and they will deliver it to you. Maybe you've heard of it.
Re: Slash on Piers Morgan
monkeychow wrote:You're all insane to me.
I can't believe people listen to songwriting like Madagascar, There was a Time etc and say that it's a weak album.
Slash has shat out so many killer GNR worthy riffs since the band broke up that it's starting to eclipse his GNR performances.
If Axl and Slash had been able to keep writing together and remained friends we would have albums that destroy AFD and UYI by now. At least in the studio both of them are playing better than in the 80s I think. Slash in chops, Axl in songwriting and passion.
It's not about Slash not being able to write a great riff or solo, it's about songwriting. Axl and Slash were not Mick and Keith, that was Axl and Izzy. They needed that third guy to help flesh out ideas and construct songs. Axl tried to bring in Paul Huge, Slash refused to work with him, saying that Paul was his biggest problem with Axl. Paul went on to help write and develop some of CD's best songs. So who know what could have happened there.
It looks like Slash made the right decision. Huge's songs are pretty weak despite having Axl and some talented musicians at his disposal.
Re: Slash on Piers Morgan
I refuted it. I didn't make excuses, I stated facts that you tried to dismiss. You expressed an opinion. Your curiousisty factor is based on your opinion (or desire) and I pointed out that the album streamed in its entirety on MYspace that would have been the place for any curiosity seekers to hear it, otherwise they would have had to set out specifically to BB to find it, when they could have heard it in the comfort of their own home without shelling out a dime... You know, on this thing called the internet.... Let alone it leaked years before it was actually released.
Buzz: Sales figues never lie...... Unless it's Chinese Democracy, then you can subtract 50% of those sales figures because you read their minds and they didn't like it. And 45% of what's left of that 50% didn't really like it, it as just meh... But all the other albums in the history of music: Sales figures NEVER LIE!!
That's it, I'm taking you to Five Guys on Gunbarrel road and I'm giving you an N'Sync album. It was popular. It charted high. Stayed there. So it's great. So you must enjoy it.
Re: Slash on Piers Morgan
I refuted it. I didn't make excuses, I stated facts that you tried to dismiss. You expressed an opinion. Your curiousisty factor is based on your opinion (or desire) and I pointed out that the album streamed in its entirety on MYspace that would have been the place for any curiosity seekers to hear it, otherwise they would have has to set out specifically to BB to find it, when they could have heard it in the comfort of their own home without shelling out a dime... You know, on this thing called the internet.... Let alone it leaked years before it was actually released.
Buzz: Sales figues never lie...... Unless it's Chinese Democracy, then you can subtract 50% of those sales figures because you read their minds and they didn't like it. And 45% of what's left of that 50% didn't really like it, it as just meh... But all the other albums in the hostory of music... Sales figures NEVER LIE!!
That's it, I'm taking you Five Guys on Gunbarrel road and I'm giving you an N'Sync album. It was popular. It charted high. Stayed there. So it's great. So you must enjoy it.
LOL - if that's what I said, I'd agree with you. Sadly for you, it's not what I said. But you keep going with that.
