You are not logged in. Please register or login.
- Topics: Active | Unanswered
- Intercourse
- Rep: 212
Re: Hall of Fame Videos
I so get Bono's frustration and I don't believe he is coming out of a place of disrespect. Like me he's been a massive & lifelong fan of U2 and its as much their enduring respect for each other as their music chops that brought their greatness.
Bono said it took years for them to 'wear the edges off each other'. While not all of U2's albums were stellar, most were pretty fucking great with some really amazing songs in each.
It's that lost opportunity for GNR and their fans that I reckon pisses Bono off as much as me and like him, I get sometimes get angry that fans give Axl a hospital pass on not trying be a leader in the old GNR.
When I use the word 'leader' I mean it in the classic way a leader should be..i.e. lead not just for himself, but manage, support and lead his boys too. Its so obvious that they needed it. Although maybe that wass Izzy's job.
U2 had many scrapes with drugs, women, in fighting, musical differences etc but always came through because Bono's passion to lead them as that unit and that unit alone held firm.
I so wish Axl could have been more like that.
Re: Hall of Fame Videos
more interesting points from the velvet rope...speaking of u2, elvis, ax, etc...
the entirety of your post is right on. good job covering the band and business dynamics about as well as could be done in a short note.
as for "axl is/is not a dick" slings, that's opinion, even if coming from personal experience. as much as GG experienced shit treatment by Axl, I have seen the other side, where he had nothing to gain. That doesn't make him bullet proof, but on balance, he is often at his best when the limelight is switched off.
you dont have to dig his music, his decisions, nor his current/past bands to acknowledge he has pulled off a remarkable transition to a new line up.
Originally Posted By: GoodGodHowever, the Elvis statement is daft. When, exactly, between 1955 and '77, did Elvis Presley's popularity drop on the same level (or even remotely close to the same level) that exists in the difference between "AFD" and "Use Your Illusion" GN'R and the subsequent "Chinese Democracy" tours?
I've ventured into several comments and opinions here, and yes, for the fun of debate because what the fuck else is there to gain from in a thread like this, but I do believe I have yet to step into that specific argument.
indeed, here's what I actually said:
. . . given enough years, EVERY SUCCESSFUL BAND has experienced a fall off from their commercial peak (sooner vs later in 99% of all cases!)? and usually never maintain a resemblance of former popularity? with precious few exceptions (and even Elvis - in the top 5 of all time - isn't in that latter category)?
now if you contend Elvis was peaking in '77 to the same extent he was in '56-58, when he OWNED the music world, and no one was within a memphis mile to his stardom, I'd be surprised.
my point was limited. the fall from peak popularity does not in and of itself suggest anything. because it happens to everybody if they get past a certain threshold of success. so why should GnR be singled out and Axl denigrated
for that sort of trend? it's a hack argument, that is inclusive of everyone in the business.
as for more on Elvis, let's get this out of the way. No way do I correlate Axl to Elvis. Axl is a talented rock star. With a mean streak of independence. whereas Elvis transfixed culture, irreversibly. Yet even in the much smaller media world at the time in '77, one in which a few dominant outlets could propel the star machinery, Elvis was no longer a special figure . . . a mere four or five years after he conquered all with the Hawaiian gigs. He was playing oddly spirited shows, but nevertheless was exhibiting performance decline (a killer band notwithstanding), and decline especially in health, subject to parody not because he was a supreme dick but because he was a massive superstar out of place in the rock world of that era. and this is just as true as well: perhaps thanks to today's weak ass era of rock bands, Axl's version of GnR is still a force.
To face these facts, you have to cringe a bit because Elvis is a special person. a God amongst mortals. Decline isn't supposed to happen. But his decline was happening, was likely to accelerate, and the guy was approaching the brink of financial collapse, which all but assured he was going to start playing the 70s version of the oldies circuit. his manager was milking him, through and through.
and Elvis did not have the capacity to stand up to him. It got to him, and he was missing shows, fucking up the ones he did make, and fans were starting to turn on him. His death overshadowed the real state of sad affairs he was about to face had he gone on living.
My say in this thread is really only about this:
a lot of rock stars cling to the past - whether by default, by strategy, by both and more. sure, it enables them to make a handsome living, but it stifles their creativity. and ask any star if they prefer the latter to the former. the honest answer will consistently reflect "I want to be known as a creative person who still can excite with new material (and if it is successful, better yet)". to the outside, they may fail. they may disappoint. they may look ridiculous. but inside, they feel there is the chance they will find zeitgist again. how they pursue that choice, is their business.
why should artists ever have that taken away from them? to chase a buck? to answer to someone's else demands/attitudes?
what does that do for our culture, besides allow it to petrify artists?
now, which camp did Elvis end up in?
and which camp has Axl joined?
these are choices for the artist to make. I commend Axl for making his and sticking to it, and not letting the dollar differential influence him. To the extent it is this sort of mindset that also gives us strong artistic personalities, I am all for it. Play for yourself. True fans will follow.
Originally Posted By: HenchmanTo pretend that GnR is a more successful or better band than U2 or The Police is laughable.
that's what you got out of the other comments involving those bands? may I ask how?
anyways, i suppose the success part of that argument could be hashed on and out, using metrics that could sort it out to some degree. but the "better" part is in your own mind. we'll leave it there, ok?
now, it is accurate to state that one of these acts chose to quit at the very top. and two of the disbanded members subsequently never saw similar glory. as best can be gleaned, they quit because they HATED each other, had more money than God, and not coincidentally, anything to follow would have been the downside of the rock roller coaster.
1 - a perfect recipe for a later reunion tour that would rake tremendous money around the world.
2 - a smart move by Sting to register his hate with the other guys. while preserving his legacy, and moving on creatively. (and some bash Axl for the same motives)
3 - but were GnR to return to the AFD line up, their business would eat the Police whole. by double or more, and unlike the Police one off, I bet GnR could run it out for years.
and that Axl isn't interested, is a chip in his favor with me. matters not that few agree.
as for U2, an extremely calculated lot whose music I dont care for, but they have done the next-to-impossible. Survived, switched some musical gears (modestly), and kept their reputation intact, for over 30 years.
no one has asked, and maybe no one cares, but here's what I think about them - they were exceptional pussies about the negativland debacle. a call from the knit hatted one, and the matter goes away. but he couldn't be bothered. so FUCK the knit hatted one.
if it is how you treat the little people as you hold your power, if it is what you do when your voice could have a decisive impact for a real artistic movement, then Edge and Bono are 10 times the shit heads that Axl is.
Re: Hall of Fame Videos
I've never poked around the Velvet Rope, but do I have it right in hearing that it's filled with "industry insiders"?
Yup. A lot. There's a screenwriting board (I don't really post there, keeping most of mine here) that's exactly like the Velevt Rope but it's all about the film industry. You'd be SHOCKED if you knew who posted there. I can only imagine the guys who do post at VR. But yeah, there are some real music insiders there.
And those posts Mad quoted was like a breath of fresh air. Wow.
Re: Hall of Fame Videos
on the RRHOF thing, I imagine Axl got some silent support from other artists and industry people. However, I don't think we needed another rambling, prozac induced letter!
Depends on what he's hearing. Some of his celeb friends suck his cock just as much as HTGTH posters, and he actually listens to Sean Penn.
As for the music insiders... hmm that's an interesting take. What if Axl has people telling him to keep playing this heel thing up, keep the reunion squashed, just drives it's damn value up and up and up and Axl trusts that "person", and Axl's waiting for a number that some fool promoter pays them a half billion dollars to tour the world for a few years.
And with Axl having the name... shit... he could throw the other guys $40 million each and they'd think they made something. Axl could officially change his name to "Ewing". 
Re: Hall of Fame Videos
I def agree with that Axlin.
Most people may not read between the lines, but everytime Axl has stated how "One would die first"
Or NEVER or this n that or what have u
he goes on to say something else that completely leaves the door cracked open. Like the if so and so apologizes publicy... if they were making music that were this n that etc
I think Axl is waiting for the apology and for the price to be amped up also. HOF may have dropped a big percentage off a reunion cause technically they would've done it for free and the initial awe factor ruined.
