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- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: The Wrestling thread
Just watched WM last night.
Taker/HHH was amazing. Reminded me of the sort of emotion in the stories when I was a kid. Was really into it - one of the great all time memorable moments I think.
Rock/Cena: Like D I was a little spent by the time we got to this one. I didn't really have much issue with the ending other than:
Re: The Wrestling thread
I know they like to reward as many wrestlers as possible, but one thing that really takes away from WM is no more Money in the Bank. that was always the highlight.
That 12 man tag was just brutal.
I wish they'd build WM around 5 amazing matches.. let them all last 25-30 mins.
Re: The Wrestling thread
I watched WM earlier in the week, and was WAY let down by it at first until I adjusted to modern day wrestling promos and working in the ring.
Keep in mind, I haven't watched actual WWE since like 2007 (no shit) and just keep track of the WWE by reading, interviews, and internet videos. No real wrestling viewing.
And then I immediately jump into WrestleMania XXVIII.
Big leap. Because I haven't viewing in so long, I was literally stunned at the HORRIBLE shape Taker is in. Good God has he put on weight. The match being "amazing" was all sell work. Total sell job, and HHH was busting his literal ass the whole match. Quite a contrast to the lively "big man" Taker of just five years ago who would walk on the top rope. Climb up the top of the Cell.
BUT
There's a but. The absolute VETERANSHIP and experience and talent and in-ring knowledge and acting ability of Taker & DX combined... those guys actually pulled it off. I was stunned it wasn't the final match of the night.
As for Rock/Cena -- I didn't think the match was as bad as some here are saying. "Cena Sucks" as always, but Rock's "still got it". I did see a bit of rust, but like riding a bicycle, Rock seemed to get it back fairly quickly
The sad shame is... Rock is still THE MOST talented guy in that locker room when you think about it. Kind of a comment on the state of the WWE.
The thing to also remember is with the lack of years in the ring, Rock's age, working with Cena... he still embarassed Cena. YET at the exact same time, a match that was intended to put over Cena, ended up using Cena to job and put over Rock. Ironic.
Same thing happened with the anti-climatic Lesnar appearence on Raw. Maybe i'm just getting too old, but WWE seems incredibly BORING right now.
"It was alot better when I was a kid"
As for the rest of WM:
The RAW vs. SD match was interesting seeing "the future" and having Booker T trying to put everyone over. Some were good, some are awful. Dolph Ziggler and Miz seem to be good options going forward. The rest... meh.
Punk/Y2J was an anti-climax. Not bad, could've been better, just a really good "RAW match", not really WM quality.
Big Show/Rhodes was forgettable.
Kane/Orton was the best "non main event" match. That one entertained me in a throwback way. Cool to see masked Kane again, and Orton has improved greatly. Totally weird to see him as a face. Wow.
Overall opinion:
Orton, Punk, and *ugh* Cena are really all McMahon has. Honestly. Jericho is a lifer mid card, and frankly Booker T too. Their time is over. Big Show, Mark Henry are obvious, and Kane is 'bout Undertaker's age. Too old. To push on a big deal, main event level those three are it, and they ain't gonna be enough. I've been watching wrasslin' for years and trust me on this, McMahon's got his work cut out for him.
I think the real shame is there are guys in Ring of Honor that should get big pushes at the WWE level long ago. TNA has an even worse problem than the WWE at getting "too old". The fact that Hulk Hogan & Sting are the faces of the organization alone sells that into the ground.
Where is pro-wresting/sports entertainment to go? Frankly... on the backs of the old men. Looking on what McMahon's got in the locker room, he's already used to dried up well of HBK & HHH & Taker to push guys like Punk, Cena & Orton. Now it's gonna take The Rock, Stone Cold, or even to a lesser extent Bret Hart.
Unless McMahon wants to see buy rates drop, he's gonna have to give blank checks to Rock & Austin to get them to return, or he's gonna have to scout a helluva lot better than he currently is.
Cena/Orton are already established, but finding another youngen to use Rock to push would be a smart move. Rock HAS to eventually job though. Even Austin has admitted this. Austin will only come back to push Orton and/or Punk, which shows Austin knows the exact shape of WWE.
Frankly... it's time. I have literally no clue what McMahon's marquee headliner could be this time next year. "Cena/Lesnar", lmfao... because Lesnar/Goldberg with Austin referee sold SO WELL.
Brock Lesnar IS NOT GONNA SAVE THE WWE. He's "White Lashley" with more heat. That's it.
I really wanted to use this opportunity to get BACK INTO the WWE... but God it was tedious watching the Raw after WM.
Re: The Wrestling thread
As for Rock/Cena -- I didn't think the match was as bad as some here are saying. "Cena Sucks" as always, but Rock's "still got it". I did see a bit of rust, but like riding a bicycle, Rock seemed to get it back fairly quickly
The sad shame is... Rock is still THE MOST talented guy in that locker room when you think about it. Kind of a comment on the state of the WWE.
The thing to also remember is with the lack of years in the ring, Rock's age, working with Cena... he still embarassed Cena. YET at the exact same time, a match that was intended to put over Cena, ended up using Cena to job and put over Rock. Ironic.
-----------
Brock Lesnar IS NOT GONNA SAVE THE WWE. He's "White Lashley" with more heat. That's it.
Lashley was "Black Lesnar" 
I personally feel Cena outperformed Rock in the main event. I mean hell I like Rocky more but he was not in ring shape (and I don't mean ring rust). He was out of breath by the time he got to the ring. Although, I still enjoyed the match personally.
I agree with you, there needs to be booking with long term planning. They need to make stars out of these guys and fast. That means more clean wins over Cena and Orton (protect Punk for a little longer to solidify his push) for the younger talent. If they have Lesnar tear through the younger guys and make them look like shit that is short-sighted bonehead booking.
Re: The Wrestling thread
Yeah, and at the same time you don't want Cena to basically job to everyone of the main eventers, just because the fans love to hate him.
You still need Cena to have SOME heat just because he's one of your top-lineup guys for selling shows and PPV's.
Lesnar is gonna be gimmicked out on the UFC past.
Cena and Orton are already over. So McMahon doesn't have to worry about that.
It's more Punk, and whoever the fuck else is in that locker room worth a damn who aren't entirely over. Punk is way over on the diehard WWE fans, but NOT the casual wrestling PPV buying public. "CM who?"
I still think Punk developing a more memorable and better finishing move would be a GREAT sell for him. The one he has right now fucking sucks for a WWE guy. Sure it's great for Ring of Honor, but look at Stone Cold. He didn't always have the stunner. Now it's looked at as a classic finisher. He's identified with it.
Cena's FU is memorable. Orton's RKO is memorable. HHH's pedigree. Taker's (hell he had FOUR), chokeslam, tombstone, last ride, hell's gate.
Punk needs something sharp, quick, simple, fast, and memorable. Something he can set up with cameras flashing.
Every superstar has had one. He doesn't.
Re: The Wrestling thread
Sting had a shitload of signature moves.
I think he and Punk could have a good feud, personally. He's 50 years old (doesn't look like it) and he'll still take the bumps. His drop kicks aren't as high as they used to be, but he's still in tip top shape. Punk needs someone who knows how to work the mich and help him out, work with. Cena did, imo. I'm still hopeful Y2J can pull this feud off, though.
At some point Sting is going to go to the WWE, even for just one match, so he can be inducted into the HOF. Which I hear is pretty important to him. And McMahon isn't going to do that unless he wrestles for him. Kind of like how he was left off the greatest wrestlers of all time list? And it was like out of 100 wrestlers.
Re: The Wrestling thread
Uhh, last time I checked Sting practically signed a lifetime contract with TNA, and is getting part ownership in the company.
I don't see him heading to WWE anytime soon.
Sting would be a good work for Punk in the long run because of his condition, but Austin would be better in the short-term. Nobody on the WWE roster right now personifies "modern Austin" more than Punk. He's a bit more Jericho-ish about it, but it's there.
As for Sting being left off of the best wrestlers list, when they made that documentary, Sting had made some very hateful comments about WWE and McMahon at the time they made it. He was cutting promos over on TNA running him down (I believe, or was told) when TNA was trying to push a new Monday night wars thing that never ever manifested. Not sure tho, but I was told.
Re: The Wrestling thread
Sting's 53 and as great a character as he is, he's not an Undertaker or Ric Flair. He's not putting on classic matches every week and tbh wasn't in the late 90s WCW either. Rewind the clock back several years ago even just a few years ago, Taker/Sting would have been a great spectale match... that's it. People tend to overvalue it, I think it's way too late to be worthwhile.
I think Lesnar however isn't getting credit. Sure he's only in it for a paycheck. But his run post winning the Title of Rock in 2002 was pretty good. His matchs against Angle/Eddie were exellent and he was a fairly entertaning character till 2004.
Lashley comparasion was unfair, Lashly was truely pushed cause of his size. His best match ironically was against Cena in the PPV after the Chris Benoit tragedy. Not a fan of the trump thing. He was also btw chosen by Vince to represent new ECW over Punk, against Heyman's ideas years ago.
Lesnar/Cena won't be a great match, but it'll be interesting. Though Lesnar will have ring rust, I don't expect his work rate to be the matchs fault.
Re: The Wrestling thread
I think Vince will own TNA, or it'll go out of business in the next couple years.
The Punk/Y2J feud would be cool if Vince came back on TV (and fired John, mr. personality) and backed Jericho and a few other stars like Jack Swagger, making a new corporation, and Austin came in to save Punk.
