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Re: RRHoF Discussion (Izzy/Slash/Axl Press Statements)
We see it a bit differently, but now I'm not sure how I see it myself anymore. 
Many valid points.
Sometimes when I listen to songs I find spots where I think "they could do something here, that part could go on for a little longer" etc.
But to write something myself? To write just a single sentence of lyrics? I'd have no idea where to start. A solid foundation is crucial and I think once that's there it's a lot easier to play off it, flesh it out. Like decorating the house, or building a new porch. Crucial to the end product, but pretty useless if the roof is leaking and there's no isolation.
Izzy's output is obviously hugely improved by Axl and Slash, and without them would sound pretty bland. But even when those two are absent, or more or less so, he can put out some very enjoyable music. A lesser package, but still a full package.
That being said, Slash is far from void of any writing talent, and while I see Izzy as more consistent he's got a far higher peak. Izzy could certainly contribute to a song like Coma, however it's Slash and Axl that comes up with the drooly bits.
On the other hand, when you remove Axl and Izzy he's a shadow of his former self. I can name 2 songs by him post 1994 that I like, Beggars and that single from the first VR album, and by like I mean I wouldn't turn it off if it was already on. Maybe there's some decent parts beneath all those terrible vocals, I don't know, not how I listen to music, but crapping on a cake does not mean it's still an edible product. Despite it's sugary contents it's now basically plain crap. And being these are his bands by and large, it's his responsibility.
That's what I've always wondered. The man clearly has an issue with singers, and going by the guys he's worked with up until now it's not an easy task to find somebody with talent. So why doesn't he make a real solo record? Just instrumentals? I'd actually love to hear that cause then we'd finally see what he's capable of without hiding behind lesser band members. I think it's because he doesn't have the balls. Doesn't want to put himself on the spot like that. The other factor, and I'm guessing it's a significant one, is vocal less music does not get played on MTV and award shows.
That's another thing about him that begrudges me. He doesn't seem to have a vision musically and the only ambition is materialistic. Izzy doesn't care about that. He's already rich, now he wants to do what he wants to do. And I think that attitude is far more important to creativity than talent is. Perhaps another reason why Slash' work (and Axl) have been subpar all these years. They're not in it for the right reasons anymore.
Axl deserves credit though for one thing. If he feels the music isn't up to speed he'd rather spend another 10 years working it than putting out a crap product. Unless Slash has developed a really terrible taste in music lately it seems he just doesn't care. Enough people will eat it up and his image and checks are kept intact. Axl is a bit similar, but at least his music is more or less enjoyable. Not only because he's more talented, but also because he has some sort of dedication and integrity.
All that adds up to a feeling of not wanting to hear his output. I just don't trust it anymore. He's got a ton of ability, but so does a guy like Buckethead. His solos doesn't stand back to Slash at all, and I think most fans would agree. He can take a song and make it better. People like Wylde, Navarro, Bumblefoot etc. can also probably do that. It's not that special a talent.
Izzy on the other hand is dropping albums like a true creative force. Some of them are quite good, it's just not my style of music. Slash' is definitely my style, but they're just bad. I guess that's why I'd rather have him and Axl team up with some hungry and young virtuoso. Still, if a trio of Axl, Izzy and Slash was at all possible, I'd definitely go for that. No question.
Re: RRHoF Discussion (Izzy/Slash/Axl Press Statements)
We see it a bit differently, but now I'm not sure how I see it myself anymore.
Sometimes when I listen to songs I find spots where I think "they could do something here, that part could go on for a little longer" etc.
But to write something myself? To write just a single sentence of lyrics? I'd have no idea where to start. A solid foundation is crucial and I think once that's there it's a lot easier to play off it, flesh it out. Like decorating the house, or building a new porch. Crucial to the end product, but pretty useless if the roof is leaking and there's no isolation.
Izzy's output is obviously hugely improved by Axl and Slash, and without them would sound pretty bland. But even when those two are absent, or more or less so, he can put out some very enjoyable music. A lesser package, but still a full package.
That being said, Slash is far from void of any writing talent, and while I see Izzy as more consistent he's got a far higher peak. Izzy could certainly contribute to a song like Coma, however it's Slash and Axl that comes up with the drooly bits.
On the other hand, when you remove Axl and Izzy he's a shadow of his former self. I can name 2 songs by him post 1994 that I like, Beggars and that single from the first VR album, and by like I mean I wouldn't turn it off if it was already on. Maybe there's some decent parts beneath all those terrible vocals, I don't know, not how I listen to music, but crapping on a cake does not mean it's still an edible product. Despite it's sugary contents it's now basically plain crap. And being these are his bands by and large, it's his responsibility.
That's what I've always wondered. The man clearly has an issue with singers, and going by the guys he's worked with up until now it's not an easy task to find somebody with talent. So why doesn't he make a real solo record? Just instrumentals? I'd actually love to hear that cause then we'd finally see what he's capable of without hiding behind lesser band members. I think it's because he doesn't have the balls. Doesn't want to put himself on the spot like that. The other factor, and I'm guessing it's a significant one, is vocal less music does not get played on MTV and award shows.
That's another thing about him that begrudges me. He doesn't seem to have a vision musically and the only ambition is materialistic. Izzy doesn't care about that. He's already rich, now he wants to do what he wants to do. And I think that attitude is far more important to creativity than talent is. Perhaps another reason why Slash' work (and Axl) have been subpar all these years. They're not in it for the right reasons anymore.
Axl deserves credit though for one thing. If he feels the music isn't up to speed he'd rather spend another 10 years working it than putting out a crap product. Unless Slash has developed a really terrible taste in music lately it seems he just doesn't care. Enough people will eat it up and his image and checks are kept intact. Axl is a bit similar, but at least his music is more or less enjoyable. Not only because he's more talented, but also because he has some sort of dedication and integrity.
All that adds up to a feeling of not wanting to hear his output. I just don't trust it anymore. He's got a ton of ability, but so does a guy like Buckethead. His solos doesn't stand back to Slash at all, and I think most fans would agree. He can take a song and make it better. People like Wylde, Navarro, Bumblefoot etc. can also probably do that. It's not that special a talent.
Izzy on the other hand is dropping albums like a true creative force. Some of them are quite good, it's just not my style of music. Slash' is definitely my style, but they're just bad. I guess that's why I'd rather have him and Axl team up with some hungry and young virtuoso. Still, if a trio of Axl, Izzy and Slash was at all possible, I'd definitely go for that. No question.
Iv heard it all now
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: RRHoF Discussion (Izzy/Slash/Axl Press Statements)
On the other hand, when you remove Axl and Izzy he's a shadow of his former self. I can name 2 songs by him post 1994 that I like, Beggars and that single from the first VR album, and by like I mean I wouldn't turn it off if it was already on.
Wow...ok..we totally disagree on that.
To me Slash has a very strong solo catalogue. There's some bland tracks too, and there's ones where the singer does put me off, but as a body of work it's very strong to my tastes.
I do think like you mentioned to an extent it's to do with how people listen to music as well. Speaking more broadly (like not just slash) - sometimes little things in a song will be what hooks me in - eg I like some rap songs for the way the bass line kicks in and stuff like that - even though I'm mostly a rock guy.
I think for some people vocals are more important than others. They are for me too - but I guess the difference is I generally don't find most Slash solo vocals bad - they're just not as good as someone like Axl - but in most cases they're not outright annoying to me (although I'll grant snakepit 2 has some questionable moments!)
Actually I have having this discussion with someone about my band the other day - there's a particular song I'm working on and having trouble finding the right singer for it. As most of my singing friends can't do it justice - and I can't sing for shit - but i was only saying to someone the other day - that I think to most people the singer is kinda the band - if you hate the singer you hate the act regardless of how bad ass the drumming or whatever might be. So in my situation if I write what I think is a good song in terms of melody, lyrics, guitar and keys, it's then up to me to find the right guy to sell it to the listener vocally or all that is wasted.
But i guess a lot of it is taste with Slash. To me no one is as good as Axl - but the solo album has a ton of songs I can listen to happily. And while I'm critical of scott compared to Axl - he's def got some songs I really like so there's plenty of VR tracks I like too.
The man clearly has an issue with singers, and going by the guys he's worked with up until now it's not an easy task to find somebody with talent. So why doesn't he make a real solo record? Just instrumentals?
Yeah..to be fair though most people I know talk about "lead singer syndrome" - it takes a fair bit of confidence in general to front a band and that same confidence can be shit annoying off stage. Meanwhile - no disrespect to Axl but he's notorious for being a complex emotional guy. Many people have found scott hard to work with too. So yeah I dunno if I can really pin that just on Slash, although I'll grant you most lead guitarists are pretty spotlight happy (myself included lol) too. I think bands are like dating for dudes - you really got to find the right mix and it can't always be held onto long term.
As for the instrumental idea. I think this is also one of those "how people listen to music" things. Myself even when I hear the best of instrumental tracks. For example something like Buckethead's soothsayer - which is just magical - a part of me wishes for some lyrics. It's odd. But to me they always seem like a wasted chance to make a conventional song that would be bad ass. I guess I just like the added layer of being able to sing along and so on. I'll grant you tho that instrumental tracks do allow for some nice solos and stuff without being weighed down in structure. Like "Watch This!" on the solo record is a good example - I wish it had lyrics cos with a bad ass singer i think it would have been amazing - but then again it's hard to see which part of that solo you'd cut.
But myself I don't really want a slash instrumental album. I think it miss understands his value. He's not hiding behind others - it's that his entire style of music is band oriented and involves the intertwining of guitar parts and big vocals/solos. I guess people say that's him "not challenging" himself or whatver - but I like my artists to do what it is they're good at. I want to see Zakk play guitar not piano. And likewise I want to see Slash bring the dynamics he brings to a band - as that's what his speciality is - and there's no shame in that - he's not an advantguard guitarist like bumble, he's not an instrumentalist...he's the lead guitarist in sleazy rock bands. That's his style and what he's amazing at being - to me it's like saying that a footballer should start making it interesting by playing cricket/baseball or whatever.
That's another thing about him that begrudges me. He doesn't seem to have a vision musically and the only ambition is materialistic.
Disagree with that too.
Choosing to leave GNR was sacrificing all kinds of money. For that matter signing over the name was an act of clearly being more interested in just making it keep working and being able to tour and play than owning the brand.
Sure he pimps and promotes now. But the guy is a pro musican and realistically they have to stay in the media and stay in the minds of fans to keep earning a living. He does have a wife and kids to provide for. Sure Axl doesn't do these things - but Axl has the benefit of owning the GNR brand - so he can tour under that marque and that prestige and earn big bucks from the legacy whenever he needs to.
Look at it from Slash's pov. He was famous for being in GNR. Wound up at 30 or whatever and out of that band. Now he's had to establish himself as an entity outside of that and earn a living.
As for his lack of vision musically. I disagree again. I think he's been very consistent in driving the kind of sound he likes. He's spoken a number of times about how these days he feels like he's standing up and representing or whatever for the old-school classic rock vibe in the modern era. I think he's done a great job of taking that traditional aerosmith style and gradually updating it and progressing it but keep it true to the original flavour. The solo album songs are clearly modern - but they also have the vibe of the 1970s stuff, and VR is sort of half new and half old sounding. I think he's done a good job of evolving that branch of rock but without sacrificing the things people liked about it, and keeping true to his vision of music without being overly influenced by trends.
Have a look at his tokyo solo in GNR then watch the solo in Made in Stoke. The man has significantly improved his playing and pushed himself over the years. He's like 10 times the player he was in 1990 on a technical level.
Most artists have a style and evolve within that. Take Tim Burton - no one complains that he doesn't challenge himself by not making disney films - no he's recognised for his dark gothic stylings and he challenges himself within that. I think it's a fallacy on these boards that people think that the only way to evolve as an artist is to fundamentally ditch what you are known for. Slash does what he is good at - which is what he should be doing really.
Unless Slash has developed a really terrible taste in music lately it seems he just doesn't care. Enough people will eat it up and his image and checks are kept intact. Axl is a bit similar, but at least his music is more or less enjoyable. Not only because he's more talented, but also because he has some sort of dedication and integrity.
Well it's each to their own. I think some recent Slash songs are great. I really enjoyed songs like "By the Sword" on slash's album. In fact the playing on that album generally is very strong and it doesn't have a thrown together "don't care" sound to me.
I also disagree that Axl is more talented than Slash. I think you'll find Slash sucks at singing and piano and Axl sucks at guitar solos.
In a sick way I do respect that Axl does what he wants even when the rest of the world doesn't want it. But I also think as I said earlier - he's able to do that because he wrangled control of the GNR brand. He reduced the people who wrote those songs with him to employees. Then they quit and he formed a new band and trades under the old name playing mostly the old songs. I love Axl's music dearly and I'm thankful for it, and I think Chinese is a brilliant album, but I think everyone lives in a glass house when it comes to "integrity". Also - Slash keeps true to the style of music he loves while Axl tried to follow the trends of the time. I love them both. But i think painting slash as a whore and axl as a saint like that is rather inaccurate.
- metallex78
- Rep: 194
Re: RRHoF Discussion (Izzy/Slash/Axl Press Statements)
Have a look at his tokyo solo in GNR then watch the solo in Made in Stoke. The man has significantly improved his playing and pushed himself over the years. He's like 10 times the player he was in 1990 on a technical level.
This is a prime example of how much better Slash has gotten.
In 1992 he was a sloppy drunken player, in 2012 he's a sober professional playing better than ever.
- TheSundanceKid
- Rep: 30
Re: RRHoF Discussion (Izzy/Slash/Axl Press Statements)
Man this thread isn't even that bad.
I went over to HTGH just to take a peek and wow they are hating huge on this reunion and really drinking the jesus juice / kool aid about how the current incarnation of GN'R with the replace replacements are on fire. I just laughed and thought glad I quit that board.
