You are not logged in. Please register or login.
- Topics: Active | Unanswered
- mister saint laurent
- Rep: 31
Re: RRHoF Discussion (Izzy/Slash/Axl Press Statements)
would you happen to have that tracii guns quote handy? i'd love to read it. thanks!
- Mikkamakka
- Rep: 217
Re: RRHoF Discussion (Izzy/Slash/Axl Press Statements)
The songs needed to be conceived before they could be fleshed out and added to with contributions from the others. Traci Guns said Izzy basically had 80-90% of AFD already written before Slash came into the band.
Tracii might have said it, but it's pure nonsense. He even said that he wrote most of that album. He was also considering a lawsuit, cause Axl and Izzy stole 'his song' Don't Cry. Since it was the first GN'R song, he probably had his hand in it, but that's it.
All of them agrees that Slash wrote WTTJ, mainly PC and the identical parts of SCOM. Not to mention the other songs, just check the writing credits. Or go to a music teacher and you'll be able to separate who did what. Izzy might have had Think about you and Anything Goes, probably some form of My Michelle in his pocket, but those are the fillers (although I happen to love MM). It's just another sad attempt to downplay Slash's importance.
Re: RRHoF Discussion (Izzy/Slash/Axl Press Statements)
I thought you were ignoring me?
Steven also got writing credits, doesn't mean much, they all shared credits back then. Slash definitely brought in the music for RQ from Road Crew, and had a big hand in creating PC and SCOM, but you have to admit, were fleshed out by Izzy, especially the latter, which Slash never liked, at least back then. And Axl already wrote the lyrics to Welcome To The Jungle, the music came later. It does seem strange that for a while now you've been going on about the "myth" of Izzy and acting like he wasn't important, or perhaps trying to downplay his importance to build up....... Slash. I'm just saying Izzy helped bring the best out of Slash.
MSL that quote was from his interview on That Metal Show.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: RRHoF Discussion (Izzy/Slash/Axl Press Statements)
People keep bringing up Snakepit - but Snakepit 1 has AFD style riffs all over it. Guitar wise it's just as good or damn close to it - the issue is the lack of Axl lyrics and melodies on that.
Listen to AFD then 5'Oclock and you can hear that the guitar parts are dominated by Slash's style on AFD.
While you are at it have a listen to the AFD type rockers in UYI and tell me that "Back off Bitch", "Perfect Crime" and "Right Next Door to Hell" or "Bad Apples" are guitar wise any better than 5'Oclock. It's all chips off the same sort of block - very similar songs.
As for this idea that 5'Oclock was not strong enough for Axl - I think after his life on the streets ended he ran out of material for hardrockers. Which is why stuff like Shotgun Blues is about the record labels, Right Next Door to Hell about his Neibhbour, Don't Damn ME about the writing process itself...bottom line is Slash keeps putting out AFD riffs over and over again - while from UYI onwards Axl's changed the style of songs he writes. It's not the material isn't strong enough it's probably that Axl didn't have much to add to it - and even if he did - Slash didn't want to wait 4 years for him to do it. Hence a fight.
Izzy is a good writer. But his base songs need the others just as much as they need him if not even more. Izzy solo stuff is far more bland than Axl or Slash's.
I could agree with MSL that he might be the key to communication. But then given Izzy himself walked out on Axl and can't deal with it. It's hard to see how he'd be the fix these days.
- Mikkamakka
- Rep: 217
Re: RRHoF Discussion (Izzy/Slash/Axl Press Statements)
I thought you were ignoring me?.
Yes, I do. But I saw MSL's comment and suspected another serious downplay of Slash's importance. That's something I cannot tolerate. Sorry.
Steven also got writing credits, doesn't mean much, they all shared credits back then. .
I'm talking about the UYI-style AFD-writing credits they constructed later.
Slash definitely brought in the music for RQ from Road Crew, and had a big hand in creating PC and SCOM, but you have to admit, were fleshed out by Izzy, especially the latter, which Slash never liked, at least back then.
So here we are - WTTJ, SCOM, PC, RQ - the gems of the album. Not to mention that the first 3 made them Guns N' Roses, those made them stars. The rest was very strong though (most of which was written by Slash, at least partly). Without Slash's input it wouldn't have been one of the best albums of all time. In fact, it'd have been in the league of Skid Row I or below.
I've never questioned the importance of the others and have never downplayed their role. Izzy wrote a shitload of stuff, some of it GN'R worthy, some of it not. He wrote a lot of fillers, but also some stuff that became a good starting point. But noone can argue that Izzy's D,C,G,D chord progression in SCOM is anything, but original or inspired. No wonder Slash made fun of it - but since he's a genius it turned out to be one of the greatest riffs and songs of rock music. His stuff made SCOM SCOM. He needed the others though, cause Slash cannot always realize the potential.
And Axl already wrote the lyrics to Welcome To The Jungle, the music came later.
I'm not sure about it, but...So what? In most cases music came first in GN'R, and lyrics later. Does it mean Axl's input is inferior? Hell no.
It does seem strange that for a while now you've been going on about the "myth" of Izzy and acting like he wasn't important, or perhaps trying to downplay his importance to build up....... Slash. I'm just saying Izzy helped bring the best out of Slash.
They all brought out the best of each other.
I feel a tendency to build up Izzy, in the expense of Slash's importance. I also feel it's not a sincere attempt, based on music study or facts or even personal prefernces, but a move to take Axl's side against Slash. Izzy's just a tool in this game.
On the other hand I think Duff is the most underrated member and songwriter of Guns N' Roses. He often didn't even get credited for significant efforts (well, it did happen with Slash, too).
I think anyone who's learned music, especially guitar, can make the GN'R music picture from the puzzles... Izzy was a chord based writer machine, a fan of simple Stones-type songs. But his stuff needed the others, otherwise even YCBM would sound like JuJu hounds. You can easily indentify the 60s Stones riff there, where it all started... Slash wrote a lot of stuff to begin with, but he's a very riff-based writer, and he also needed the others not to sound like Aerosmith or Jeff Beck. Slash made Izzy's simple songs more difficult and GN'Rish, while Izzy made Slash's stuff lighter and more acceptable to the public, or sometimes dirtier with those sleazy chords over Slash's riffage. The drummer made the rhythm - I prefer Steven's groove over Matt's much more skilled and intelligent playing. And Duff... I think he's very underrated. Just listen Loaded's last album or Believe in me...that's where the rhythm of GN'R's riffage coming from. I'm bloody sure he adviced Slash (or Izzy) little changes, that changed that riff completely. Axl was also very important as a music supervisior/producer, I think he (and possibly Duff) had great ideas about song structures, cause Slash and Izzy seems to prefer the generic intro/verse/verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge/solo/chorus/chorus version. Axl didn't write much music in GN'R, possibly nothing on AFD, that's where Duff's 'Axl only wrote My World' comment's coming, but he surely adviced them things.. I mean what kind of stuff could be here or there, and then the guys were thinking and working on it and voila... So they all had their part in GN'R, but as talented Izzy, Duff and Steven were, Axl and Slash were the aces. The crazy, emotive singer and the legendary solo guitarist.
Re: RRHoF Discussion (Izzy/Slash/Axl Press Statements)
I'm not taking credit away from anyone, or diminishing what they did. And I definitely didn't downplay Slash's importance.
They all had a hand in creating the music. I think that's the point, that we don't want to diminish anyone's input. Especially someone like Izzy.
The songs wouldn't be what they were without Slash. It doesn't matter if Izzy laid the foundations for the songs before Slash arrived, because no one could have brought what Slash did. We were just pointing out Slash wouldn't have those great moments without Izzy conceiving them, or Axl for that matter. You could say Izzy was as important to SCOM as Slash was, because he actually fleshed it out, according to Slash. But Slash conceived that song with the intro, whether he liked it or not. 
Paradise City started out as a joke, according to Slash, like SCOM, where he played it in the back of a van and sang somthing like, "Take me down to the paradise city where the girl's are fat but they got big titties." But Axl took it seriously, and jumped on it. It was something like that. According to Slash Axl had already written Welcome To the Jungle. And Slash jammed it out later. It was actually some music Slash wrote seperately from the song that Axl liked and pointed out. And Slash is totally responsible for the music.
It's just not the fact, not saying you're saying this outright because I'm not going to put words in peoples mouth, but Slash wasn't sitting around jamming out all the riffs and stuff and having the others write around it. It's just not the case. A lot of the music was written before he got there, but he definitely elevated it. But I do remember them saying during the AFD sessions that Axl would write lyrics first and they would try to write music around it, and Axl didn't like that.
And I agree about Duff, very underrated.
- Mikkamakka
- Rep: 217
Re: RRHoF Discussion (Izzy/Slash/Axl Press Statements)
I'm not taking credit away from anyone, or diminishing what they did. And I definitely didn't downplay Slash's importance.
They all had a hand in creating the music. I think that's the point, that we don't want to diminish anyone's input. Especially someone like Izzy.
The songs wouldn't be what they were without Slash. It doesn't matter if Izzy laid the foundations for the songs before Slash arrived, because no one could have brought what Slash did. We were just pointing out Slash wouldn't have those great moments without Izzy conceiving them, or Axl for that matter. You could say Izzy was as important to SCOM as Slash was, because he actually fleshed it out, according to Slash. But Slash conceived that song with the intro, whether he liked it or not.
Paradise City started out as a joke, according to Slash, like SCOM, where he played it in the back of a van and sang somthing like, "Take me down to the paradise city where the girl's are fat but they got big titties." But Axl took it seriously, and jumped on it. It was something like that. According to Slash Axl had already written Welcome To the Jungle. And Slash jammed it out later. It was actually some music Slash wrote seperately from the song that Axl liked and pointed out. And Slash is totally responsible for the music.
It's just not the fact, not saying you're saying this outright because I'm not going to put words in peoples mouth, but Slash wasn't sitting around jamming out all the riffs and stuff and having the others write around it. It's just not the case. A lot of the music was written before he got there, but he definitely elevated it. But I do remember them saying during the AFD sessions that Axl would write lyrics first and they would try to write music around it, and Axl didn't like that.
And I agree about Duff, very underrated.
I agree, except I think it'd be more precise to say that some of the music was written before Slash got there, but all the great songs (WTTJ, Easy, Nightrain, Brownstone, PC, SCOM, RQ) were created after he entered. (He also co-wrote Out Ta Get Me and Crazy as far as I know, so the pre-Slash creative process isn't more than Anything Goes and (parts of) My Michelle and Think About You.)
The UYIs had more pre-Slash stuff than AFD, for sure.
Re: RRHoF Discussion (Izzy/Slash/Axl Press Statements)
I feel a tendency to build up Izzy, in the expense of Slash's importance. I also feel it's not a sincere attempt, based on music study or facts or even personal prefernces, but a move to take Axl's side against Slash. Izzy's just a tool in this game.
i feel you are insane.
:peace
- Mikkamakka
- Rep: 217
Re: RRHoF Discussion (Izzy/Slash/Axl Press Statements)
Mikkamakka wrote:I feel a tendency to build up Izzy, in the expense of Slash's importance. I also feel it's not a sincere attempt, based on music study or facts or even personal prefernces, but a move to take Axl's side against Slash. Izzy's just a tool in this game.
i feel you are insane.
:peace
I hope you'll feel better. 
Re: RRHoF Discussion (Izzy/Slash/Axl Press Statements)
polluxlm wrote:The Wal Mart version of GN'R.
Yeah...I mean I prefer the AFD line up to the UYI tour...but at the end of the day Matt and the UYI guys were still GNR to me as well.
Still a good band, but far from the same band. Fun in a circus way. Still a far cry from the AFD/Lies band.
polluxlm wrote:I want new material and in that regard Izzy is the man you need to go see.
I love Izzy but I think people overplay his role in these songs. There's that interview with him where he was talking about writing with GNR - and he says he'd be playing some chords and then Slash comes in and starts chugging out the same riffs but rocky and heavier and adding an intertwining part, then Axl shows up and goes "no change, this melody, let's do this here" and then by the end of the process they've added a ton of bad ass stuff and it's way cool but not like the song he showed up with.
Izzy is great, I'm just saying if AFD had been a juju hounds record then those songs would not sound like the AFD songs. So whoever wrote the original structure, Axl added the vocal melody and the Axlness, Slash brings his way of playing riffs and those solos....so I think people get obsessed with the idea of "without Izzy they can't write". Yes that's what happened when he left - but that's because of the communication breakdown IMO - I think Snakepit, VR, and Chinese all show that the others are capiable of writing great stuff - if they could bring themselves to work together again - with or without izzy it could be impressive.
Vanilla Izzy is pretty stale, I agree. JuJu Hounds is the only album of him I own, and I never listen to it.
Nevertheless, behind Axl he is the main songwriter on all the old albums. The difference between UYI and Snakepit is really him, and it's huge. Sure, the unique Slash style is there but a bunch of substance had been lost. Some guys are better at being number 2s as they say.
Mix em together though and have Axl reign things in, there's magic. And at the end of the day I'd rather have Axl and Izzy + whoever else writing material than Axl and Slash. Axl will always be Axl, but Slash' solo output has been extremely disappointing. I don't trust him at all in that regard.
