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- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: Axl Rose - Criminally underrated lyricist.
Got to agree with D here.
Some of Cobain's lyrics seriously make stop and say, "Wow."
It's so simplistic, but says so much. That's why I call him a brilliant lyricist. He doesn't have to be Jim Morrison, the poet. (I love Morrison too
)
Again, D makes a terrific point about Dylan; totally different than both Axl and Cobain, but they're all fantastic writers, just different styles IMHO.
Dylan is THE best songwriter I have ever heard. Supernaturally talented. If you can catch the documentary where he's word playing, it'll make your jaw drop.
Dylan is the greatest songwriter of the last 100 years and possibly ever (including classical composers). I'm still in awe at the guts it took for him to write some of the stuff he did back in the day, and the crazy thing is it's even more relevant today than it was 40 years ago. Masters of War...damn.
Re: Axl Rose - Criminally underrated lyricist.
Dylan is the greatest songwriter of the last 100 years and possibly ever (including classical composers). I'm still in awe at the guts it took for him to write some of the stuff he did back in the day, and the crazy thing is it's even more relevant today than it was 40 years ago. Masters of War...damn.
Ohhh I dunno there were some electronic music guys in the 40's who made music so groundbreaking that it's only really become mainstream in the past 10 years.
Dylan never did it for me personally though I wouldn't deny he's a great talent.
There are a lot of underrated people out there though. I think Buddy Holly tops Dylan. Chuck Berry wipes the floor with him in terms of the things he introduced to music that are still there to this day.
You can take a Lady GaGa song and point out structures and features introduced by Chuck Berry.
I don't think Dylan is over rated, he is brilliant. I just think people seem to think of music in terms of before and after Dylan whereas really Chuck Berry was the point where shit got real.
As for Axl. some of his lyrics are mind blowingly good. The outro to Coma, well, the whole song in fact.
Also Don't Damn Me is probably the best set of lyrics he's got, love it. Love when he gets to preaching about social issues and the likes.
In fact Bad Apples is also amazing, the whole second half of Illusion 1 is just perfect lyrically.
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: Axl Rose - Criminally underrated lyricist.
tejastech08 wrote:Dylan is the greatest songwriter of the last 100 years and possibly ever (including classical composers). I'm still in awe at the guts it took for him to write some of the stuff he did back in the day, and the crazy thing is it's even more relevant today than it was 40 years ago. Masters of War...damn.
Ohhh I dunno there were some electronic music guys in the 40's who made music so groundbreaking that it's only really become mainstream in the past 10 years.
Dylan never did it for me personally though I wouldn't deny he's a great talent.
There are a lot of underrated people out there though. I think Buddy Holly tops Dylan. Chuck Berry wipes the floor with him in terms of the things he introduced to music that are still there to this day.
You can take a Lady GaGa song and point out structures and features introduced by Chuck Berry.I don't think Dylan is over rated, he is brilliant. I just think people seem to think of music in terms of before and after Dylan whereas really Chuck Berry was the point where shit got real.
The point of the conversation was songwriting. Berry was hugely influential on the rock genre because of his guitar playing, but Dylan's songwriting destroys Berry's songwriting and pretty much everyone else's songwriting in the last 60 years. There are very few in his league from that standpoint. As far as the before and after thing goes, Dylan isn't the one most people bring up. It's usually Elvis or the Beatles. And from that standpoint, both Buddy Holly and Chuck Berry are underrated. The Beatles wouldn't have turned out the way they did if it wasn't for those two artists.
As far as electronic music goes, again you seem to be bringing up musical sounds instead of songwriting. Go listen to Masters of War and tell me it didn't take huge balls to write a song with those lyrics in the 1960's. That's the type of shit that gets you assassinated. And 40 years later, the military industrial complex has only gotten worse in this country. His words are extremely powerful, and completely truthful. They express the frustration that many people in this country have with the way our political system operates. It allows money-grubbing fuckers in the weapons industry to buy off our politicians, who then send our kids to die in wars that do nothing but make the weapons manufacturers a ton of cash.
Re: Axl Rose - Criminally underrated lyricist.
almost right. Dylan was the game changer because he made rock and roll "art" when he went electric in 64-65. Dylan made rock and roll intelligent. So, in that sense, there clearly is a before and after Dylan.
And Dylan is easily the best lyricist of the last century. He wrote about everything and in all kinds of different ways.
Re: Axl Rose - Criminally underrated lyricist.
Masters of War is good but this is my favorite.......every word applies to life today....
It's Alright, Ma (I'm Only Bleeding)
Darkness at the break of noon
Shadows even the silver spoon
The handmade blade, the child’s balloon
Eclipses both the sun and moon
To understand you know too soon
There is no sense in trying
Pointed threats, they bluff with scorn
Suicide remarks are torn
From the fool’s gold mouthpiece the hollow horn
Plays wasted words, proves to warn
That he not busy being born is busy dying
Temptation’s page flies out the door
You follow, find yourself at war
Watch waterfalls of pity roar
You feel to moan but unlike before
You discover that you’d just be one more
Person crying
So don’t fear if you hear
A foreign sound to your ear
It’s alright, Ma, I’m only sighing
As some warn victory, some downfall
Private reasons great or small
Can be seen in the eyes of those that call
To make all that should be killed to crawl
While others say don’t hate nothing at all
Except hatred
Disillusioned words like bullets bark
As human gods aim for their mark
Make everything from toy guns that spark
To flesh-colored Christs that glow in the dark
It’s easy to see without looking too far
That not much is really sacred
While preachers preach of evil fates
Teachers teach that knowledge waits
Can lead to hundred-dollar plates
Goodness hides behind its gates
But even the president of the United States
Sometimes must have to stand naked
An’ though the rules of the road have been lodged
It’s only people’s games that you got to dodge
And it’s alright, Ma, I can make it
Advertising signs they con
You into thinking you’re the one
That can do what’s never been done
That can win what’s never been won
Meantime life outside goes on
All around you
You lose yourself, you reappear
You suddenly find you got nothing to fear
Alone you stand with nobody near
When a trembling distant voice, unclear
Startles your sleeping ears to hear
That somebody thinks they really found you
A question in your nerves is lit
Yet you know there is no answer fit
To satisfy, insure you not to quit
To keep it in your mind and not forget
That it is not he or she or them or it
That you belong to
Although the masters make the rules
For the wise men and the fools
I got nothing, Ma, to live up to
For them that must obey authority
That they do not respect in any degree
Who despise their jobs, their destinies
Speak jealously of them that are free
Cultivate their flowers to be
Nothing more than something they invest in
While some on principles baptized
To strict party platform ties
Social clubs in drag disguise
Outsiders they can freely criticize
Tell nothing except who to idolize
And then say God bless him
While one who sings with his tongue on fire
Gargles in the rat race choir
Bent out of shape from society’s pliers
Cares not to come up any higher
But rather get you down in the hole
That he’s in
But I mean no harm nor put fault
On anyone that lives in a vault
But it’s alright, Ma, if I can’t please him
Old lady judges watch people in pairs
Limited in sex, they dare
To push fake morals, insult and stare
While money doesn’t talk, it swears
Obscenity, who really cares
Propaganda, all is phony
While them that defend what they cannot see
With a killer’s pride, security
It blows the minds most bitterly
For them that think death’s honesty
Won’t fall upon them naturally
Life sometimes must get lonely
My eyes collide head-on with stuffed
Graveyards, false gods, I scuff
At pettiness which plays so rough
Walk upside-down inside handcuffs
Kick my legs to crash it off
Say okay, I have had enough, what else can you show me?
And if my thought-dreams could be seen
They’d probably put my head in a guillotine
But it’s alright, Ma, it’s life, and life only
Re: Axl Rose - Criminally underrated lyricist.
Dylan's songwriting destroys Berry's songwriting and pretty much everyone else's songwriting in the last 60 years. There are very few in his league from that standpoint. As far as the before and after thing goes,
Bold statement. Leonard Cohen, Tom Waits, Van Morrison and David Bowie disagree.
Dylan isn't the one most people bring up. It's usually Elvis or the Beatles.
Debatable.
As far as electronic music goes, again you seem to be bringing up musical sounds instead of songwriting.
Are you prepared to draw a line between the two?
Go listen to Masters of War and tell me it didn't take huge balls to write a song with those lyrics in the 1960's. That's the type of shit that gets you assassinated.
It took huge balls. therefore he has huge balls. If being the greatest songwriter of the past 40 years was a question of balls he would win hands down.
Re: Axl Rose - Criminally underrated lyricist.
Everybody you named up top (Bowie, Van, Waits, and Cohen) was hugely influenced by Dylan, so no they wouldn't disagree....not even close. Great great artists in their own right, but they were not Dylan. Bowie worships Dylan, as did the Beatles, Bono and thousands of other artists.
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: Axl Rose - Criminally underrated lyricist.
Everybody you named up top was hugely influenced by Dylan so no they wouldn't disagree....not even close. Great great artists in their own right, but not Dylan. Bowie worships Dylan, as did the Beatles, Bono and thousands of other artists.
Fucking exactly. Completely laughable to list David Bowie in Dylan's league as a songwriter. That's not meant as a slight to Bowie either. He's a great songwriter, but he isn't in Dylan's league and he would be the first one to admit it.
