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Re: All Original GUNS Members Will Be At ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME
I'll get canned for this as I know it's a fan favourite...but Don't Cry wouldn't be anywhere near my best of lists.
It's a pretty song, and a nice heart felt solo from Slash but to me it's not up there with the best work of the old band. It's a nice song but other songs like Coma, Locomotive and that kind of thing are songs that no-one other than GNR could have made. To me Don't Cry is a nice song but it's the type of song I could imagine another band writing too. It's great but a long way from their best work.
I don't want to get into comparing CD to UIY/AFD stuff...but I will say I think there's moments of genius on Chinese Democracy as an album, parts of TWAT, Madagascar, Cather, TIL and others are really songwriting from that place that's so uniquely Axl.
I love the album as is...but I have no doubts that people who don't, much like people who don't understand why Snakepit kicks ass, would have been persuaded if these songs featured the old members.
well, Hall of Fame thread.. people saying this should be there, that should be there etc.
kind of a big take on why only 86-93 gets in.
Once again, u have to separate your personal feelings/taste.
Don't Cry was HUGE hit. Huge video etc.really catapulted the band into the direction it is in now, transitioned away from rockers to more diverse balladry etc. has to be in there.
That being said, Madagascar has best shot at top 15 for me. 11 years, still love it. still gives me goosebumps..
Re: All Original GUNS Members Will Be At ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME
misterID wrote:The list is your list. I'd put TWAT, Better and Prostitute in the top ten if I'd rank them. I think CD is a great album, don't need anyone to share that opinion. You have your own taste, I have mine. Doesn't mean anyone is more right than the other. The old vs new thing is getting real old.
I never bought the whole music is subjective thing..
If u asked 100 people top ten GNR songs of all time.. there list would look similar to that.
If your list doesn't... has nothing to do with "taste" imo
people used to try to pull that with me about Finck and Slash. I would tell people u can't say Finck is better than Slash and they'd pull all this my opinion bullshit.
something can be your "Favorite" but that doesn't make it better.
Emancipation is my all time fave Prince album... I'd be crazy to say its better than Purple rain or Sign o the times or 1999.. its my fave but i can be objective enough to know that on NO planet would Emancipation be considered his best album:
Dirk Nowitzki is my Favorite NBA basketball player of all time. I like him MORE than Michael Jordan but I'd never say he is "Better" than MJ. Why? cause there are tangible arguments u can point at and prove why MJ is better and I can do the same as to why Slash is better than Finck.
Same with my top 10 list of GNR songs.
U can have your ten favorites.. but if u are being objective u couldn't possibly penetrate that list with CD stuff.
Then ten I listed aren't my 10 fave GNR songs but when u take everything into account, personal feelings aside, those would be in 99 percent of peoples' definitive list.
You're going by "popular opinion". Obviously, people are going to pick Slash over Robin Finck. People would probably pick CC Deville over Yngvie Malmsteen because of the commercial success. Just as people would say "Unskinny Bob" is a better song than "There Was A Time". Doesn't make it so.
If you are going by popular opinion, yes the original GNR lineup and UYI lineup is going to make up probably the top 40+ GNR songs of all time. Their popularity was through the roof then, but that doesn't make it proof positive.
Re: All Original GUNS Members Will Be At ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME
Did u really just compare CC=Yngvie in same way as Finck/Slash?
WOW
Just saying, I can point to what Slash has done.. his resume is a million times more impressive. so no way someone can be better when they haven't done shit.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: All Original GUNS Members Will Be At ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME
Ahh yeah...ok...in the context of the HOF discussion i guess Don't Cry should be there...I do like it...just to me it's overrated by most people.
I just mean like structurally...it's a very "Verse, Chorus, Verse" type song - not that there's anything wrong with that - but like in an alternate universe Don't Cry could be a song your Band wrote - it's very "songish" - but then take a song like Coma - now try and write Coma without having Axl or Slash in your band - it's just fucking not going to happen. It's unique. It's something only those minds could have made. Which means I'd rank it above not only for taste but for it's originality I guess. Not sure if that makes any sense to anyone but me lol. But yeah in RRHOF terms it's just going to come down to the radio play I guess.
Madagascar is an example of why I think Axl still "has it". I remember watching Rio 3 and being all WTF. I'd been prepared to try out a new GNR despite my history as a long term Slash fan. But it was so traumatising. The band looked so weird, Robin was not only not Slash but didn't seem to even know the tunes of the songs, and to cap it off Axl was singing in a strange voice.
All very upsetting. Then they played Madagascar. Such a beautiful song lyrically and melodically and I realised in that moment that even though I think Axl and Slash were magical together, there's a real gift that Axl has even alone to be able to capture thoughts, tune in to melodies and create beauty.
Although if you'll forgive another controversial post in the same thread where I dissed don't cry. I don't understand the love for the bucket solo in madagascar. The closing seconds of it with the siren/alarm type noise I guess are kind of cool - but generally I feel it adds nothing to the song. If anything it's sort of a mood kill to me - the verses and choruses are so inspirational - then the samples tell their own story but that solo is just like filler space...then it all ends.. It's not cos I'm anti bucket - he's done some great solos in his career - but this for me isn't one of them - I think with a better solo Madagascar would be amongst the best of GNR's catalogue...it's wonderful anyway...but yeah..I always find it curious when people bash Richard for fucking up bucket's solo there...as to me bucket's solo was a rubbish solo in the first place and didn't suit the song.
- Me_Wise_Magic
- Rep: 70
Re: All Original GUNS Members Will Be At ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME
I personally like that Richard stepped up to the plate on the song's solo. I think he does a pretty good job with it. I don't know why Ron hasn't had a turn with it since he's specialty is playing the Buckethead and tough Slash fast riffs, tapping solos, and some of the guitar effect stuff used throughout most of the UYI and CD songs. As well as his own recorded parts too. The thing I like about CD the most is that most of the main lead guitarists on the record have a song or there that makes them stand out. Bumblefoot's is Shackler's and some of the other stuff on record, Buckethead's is TWAT, Madagascar, and Prostitute. Robin's Street of Dreams, Opening Chinese riff, This I Love, and most of the really good lead parts with Bucket and Ron.
Re: All Original GUNS Members Will Be At ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME
Did u really just compare CC=Yngvie in same way as Finck/Slash?
WOW
Just saying, I can point to what Slash has done.. his resume is a million times more impressive. so no way someone can be better when they haven't done shit.
Yes D, I think CC Deville and Slash are equal and Yngvie and Finck are equal. NO, it's not about an equal comparison. I wholeheartedly agree that Slash is better than Robin Finck. You'll get absolutely no argument from me on that front. But to say that Yesterdays, or some other UYI track is better than There Was A Time, or some other CD track JUST because the latter are more well known doesn't really prove anything more than they're just more popular.
Re: All Original GUNS Members Will Be At ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME
Christ sakes, read what I said. I never said he, or his contributions were worthless, but his contributions were nothing great. And I never said I didn't want him on AFD. Why you alluded to that is beyond me, just another over dramtic over exaggeration again. I'm not even saying he's a bad drummer. His playing fit the band at that time. I'll say it again, Steven's drumming fit AFD. And it's quoting Slash that Matt's drumming elevated the musicanship of the band, made them better, etc. Matt was a succesful drummer before and after GN'R. Steven wasn't. There was nothing special about him as a drummer.
I'm not bashing Steven, my problem is acting like he's Ginger Baker or Stewart Copeland and that Matt is just a heavy handed hack.
There's no way Steven could have done the job Matt did on Estranged and NR. I doubt he could do the job Matt did on You Could Be Mine. They had different styles, and I totally understand perfering Steven over Matt, even if it were just for Steven's playing on AFD or even sentimental reasons, but acting like Matt isn't a good drummer, and that Steven is something he isn't, is beyond ridiculous. He was a typical sunset strip drummer, with a cool groove and music sense, who played with an awesome band. If he hadn't been in GN'R Steven would have never been a famous drummer. That's all I'm saying.
Matt Sorum made his mark in GN'R, imo.
His contributions were nothing great? 
Ummmm.... All drums n AFD, remember that? What suddenly the drums are just adequate on AFD because why? You're trying to build up Matt or because you don't like what you percive as others overrating Steven so you'll exagerate to diminish what he actually contributed? yeah the drumming on the greatest rock n 'roll album ever in my opinion merely fits and theres no way that guy could've carried on and recorded Illusions. Yeah right. Being a FAMOUS drummer isn't a be all end all criteria for being a good drummer. Had Steven not been in Gn'R he'd never have been a famous drummer? .... yeah and I guess the rest of the guys were destined for super stardom with or without Guns N' Roses? Ummmm.... fact is they were all in Gn'R and that is why they all got famous.
I like Matt as well and I think he should be in the Hall. NOT once have I ever talked bad about Matt or knocked his ability. I think what he did on the Illusions is GREAT just as what Steven did on AFD is GREAT so this revisionist's history where people start saying Steven was great for AFD but there's no way he'd have been able to carry the torch had he not been kicked out over addictions it's just a bunch of nonsense to justify Matt and it's unnecessary. Steven never went on to do anything of relevance due to his addictions.
Re: All Original GUNS Members Will Be At ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME
. But to say that Yesterdays, or some other UYI track is better than There Was A Time, or some other CD track JUST because the latter are more well known doesn't really prove anything more than they're just more popular.
Just my honest opinion but TWAT is the most overrated Guns song ever by Guns N' Roses fans. Yesterdays in my opinion blows TWAT outta the water. To be honest the only songs off the Illusions that I'd say TWAT is better than is My World and Get in the Ring and maybe Bad Apples. TWAT is not even close to the best song n CD in y opinion. Obviously my opinion is shared by..... well likely nobody else on these Gn'R forums but my guess is the pubic opinion would check out of that song as well. I don't know that song is just so "try hard" , so drawn out and boring to me.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: All Original GUNS Members Will Be At ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME
Just my honest opinion but TWAT is the most overrated Guns song ever by Guns N' Roses fans.
What makes the song to me is that "I would do anything for you" screams Axl does in the middle and then the end. They're musically just awesome at that spot, and in terms of the vocal passion and delivery of that part, it's controversial, but to me it's probably the greatest vocal part axl has done.
And I say that as a guy who loves the illusions and AFD.
