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Re: Duff: Quit Whining About SOPA and PIPA
On the old evo format with the news ticker at the top, for weeks all it had was an Itunes link to buy the song. It got clicks. Why would the evil downloaders bother since they owned it for free & supposedly loathe paying for music?
Re: Duff: Quit Whining About SOPA and PIPA
When fans could go to multiple stores in the 90s, know the clerks/owner by name, have discussions about music & the clerk actually play a cd you were interested in b4 buying & have a cool experience that made you look forward to coming back to buy more...
Then being reduced to going to walmart is definitely jumping through hoops. One is a pleasant experience, the other being a dreaded one. Maybe record store culture was different here & its why some of you like making cd purchases at walmart.
That last part is pretty condescending to be honest. Nobody said they "enjoy" going to Walmart. The FACT is though with today's technology you can sample anything you want online before purchase. So whether your visit to the music store is the same enjoyable experience as it once was your ability to listen before purchase has not been taken away from you. Going to wal-mart is NOT jumping through hoops anymore than going to a grocery store to get groceries is jumping through hoops. Truth be told most stores wil still let you listen before purhcasing a cd. You just have to ask.
The experience of hanging out in a legit record store is gone yes but the ability to purchase music you enjoy is in fact easier in this era than it has ever been. It's simply whether you choose to purchase it or take it. And that's the cold hard truth dude. I, like you, knew a record store owner, the kind of store you're talking about. Records to the Rafters it was called. The dude held on untill last year when finally he closed his doors. Sad? Yes, but has my ability to find the music and PURCHASE that music been taken away from me because of it? Definitely not. In fact it's easier for me to get to the wal-mart if i chose to than it ever was to get to his store. Suggesting that going to wal-mart is too many hoops to jump through is simply an excuse to take music for free. Sorry dude don't see your point at all here. Plus there's always the online avenue of purchasing music where you'll find a much bigger selection than you could ever have at your local record store.
And don't get me wrong I love the old style record stores like you talk about but just because they are gone doesn't mean there's too many hoops to jump through to BUY the music. Nothing could be further from the truth. And YES you and anyone are partially to blame if you take music for free. You may think you're just one person but people all over the world have chosen to simply take the music they want for free. It's like voting James. One single vote may not make a difference but when you add all the votes up it has a huge impact. So whether you download an album ten years after the release or the day it comes out it doesn't matter. You still took it for free.
Re: Duff: Quit Whining About SOPA and PIPA
On the old evo format with the news ticker at the top, for weeks all it had was an Itunes link to buy the song. It got clicks. Why would the evil downloaders bother since they owned it for free & supposedly loathe paying for music?
This is so naive. You're not taking into account the millions of people who download it and don't give clicking on links to purchase a second thought. So you promoted the labum here and few people bought it. how many thousands do you think just took it? My brother has an incredible music collection he's amassed in about the last 5 years or so and he hasn't paid for a single fucking album. You now how many people are out there in this world just like my brother? A fucking lot. Trust me dude as much as people might wanna turn a blind eye to the fact downloading has hurt the industry it's a fact plain and simple. Are downloaders the only people to blame? No they are not but to suggest there's no blame to be layed on them is ridiculous.
Re: Duff: Quit Whining About SOPA and PIPA
If I had to go to a grocery store to buy postage stamps because post offices ceased to exist, yes that is a hoop jump. The #1 option was forced out of business. What happened to record stores in the mid/late was tragic but even though we disagree...
Re: Duff: Quit Whining About SOPA and PIPA
At least you can see where people like me & russ are coming from. I never said downloaders have zero blame. I just dont think they are the root cause of the collapse.
I agree with your earlier post about music being disposable, a sad byproduct of the era
Re: Duff: Quit Whining About SOPA and PIPA
Citing an example is not being naive. I know people downloaded it free. It was on pirate bays top 100 chart for over 2 years. When cd was released,tanked on the real charts & torrents. that album was still being downloaded. Theres good & bad on this issue
Re: Duff: Quit Whining About SOPA and PIPA
I guess I'm just not followin the "jumping through hops thing". I mean regardless of where you buy postage stamps you still need to go buy them. So if you gotta get them at the grocery store whats' the difference? Difference is you could also pick up some groceries while your'e there. Same with cd's. Whether you're going to the record store or the wal-mart you still gotta go. Granted the wal-marts don't have the quality selection old school record stores do but again if you can't find what you're looking for available online to purchase it likely doesn't exist.
I agree there is good and bad to this. No doubt downloading has contributed to promotion in some cases. I tend to believe it's hurt the industry much more then it's helped it though. Even youtube is a great promotional tool for bands yet I really gotta wonder how many people simply use file coverter sites to take songs right off youtube. My guess would be a LOT.
Re: Duff: Quit Whining About SOPA and PIPA
Jumping through hoops for me was any of it.
Wal-Mart was 20-30 minutes away, and a good record store even longer.
I preferred the record store. I loved the vibe, I loved the cool types. I loved just hanging out.
But obviously you're not just gonna "drop in", when the record store is 45 minutes one way.
Wal-Mart had limited stock and never carried what I wanted. The record store did. Plus after Alanis Morisette's Jagged Little Pill, alot of Wal-Mart's refused to carry anything with a Parental label, nor anything the manager thought would be deemed inappropriate. So you got half the stock of country, 25% Mexican music, and 25% Gospel. Rap was unheard of, and rock & pop was rare.
I held on to Creedence Clearwater Revival's Greatest Hits for years like it was the holy fuckin' grail of all rock.
You had to go to the record store for the good stuff, AND the experience of loving music. But it was just impossible, and Wal-Mart was it's own clusterfuck.
When I got online in 1998 and Napster took off... the wall was lost. It just became easier and cheaper, not just for the album cost, but gas and time. Even still I used Napster mostly for hard-to-find out of print tracks or the stuff my friends said to check out, usually shitty pop songs that were flavors of the week.
The stuff I really liked, I still used Amazon.com to buy the actual albums. But the days of buying in-store were over.
So maybe that was it? Maybe illegal downloading didn't kill the record store, the internet and ship-to-home did?
Re: Duff: Quit Whining About SOPA and PIPA
This is so naive. You're not taking into account the millions of people who download it and don't give clicking on links to purchase a second thought.
It's naive to think that downloads equal lost sales in even a marginally significant number of cases. And yet that's the leap people make over and over again. I don't care how many times it has been downloaded, I would like to know how many sales have been lost. The actual sales figures don't support the "piracy-is-bad" doctrine, and that is a fact.
Did you know that there is not a single independent study that has been able to confirm the RIAA's position on piracy? Yet, lots of studies exist that demonstrate piracy has much less of an impact than most people are willing to concede. You've got to be quite the conspiracy theorist to disregard those studies as organized misinformation by the left-wing hippie anti-ownership crowd.
I think the point about record stores is more that the culture of loving and appreciating music has deteriorated at the hands of the music bizz (amongst other things by killing the "magic" of the record store). And I agree, you know... kids today (*cough*) don't appreciate music in the same way we did. So much more one-hit wonders, so much emphasis on production, it all creates a kind of music fatigue that detracts from the value of music.
Re: Duff: Quit Whining About SOPA and PIPA
Bono wrote:This is so naive. You're not taking into account the millions of people who download it and don't give clicking on links to purchase a second thought.
It's naive to think that downloads equal lost sales in even a marginally significant number of cases. And yet that's the leap people make over and over again. I don't care how many times it has been downloaded, I would like to know how many sales have been lost. The actual sales figures don't support the "piracy-is-bad" doctrine, and that is a fact.
It is most definitely NOT a fact. To suggest that illegal downloading doesn't diminish actual sales is laughable. It borders on an opinion used to justify illegal downloading. You dont' need figures and "facts" to know this. It's a common sense assessment. When something is available for free far less people will choose to pay for it.
Did you know that there is not a single independent study that has been able to confirm the RIAA's position on piracy? Yet, lots of studies exist that demonstrate piracy has much less of an impact than most people are willing to concede. You've got to be quite the conspiracy theorist to disregard those studies as organized misinformation by the left-wing hippie anti-ownership crowd.
You tell me. U2's No Line on the Horizon that got incredible reviews, looked at as their best album since Achtung Baby by many and it didn't do half of what Bomb and All That You Can't Leave Behind did sales wise. Yet the 360 tour in support of the album broke every record known. Explain that? U2 is obviously still major draw yet suddenly over night they lost half their customers when it comes to purchasing albums. People don't buy things when they can get them for free and the culture when it comes to this is rapidly changing more and more each day. The younger generation have no problem taking something for free. This is just one example and I can assure you there are more. It's naive to think illegal downloading hasn't hurt the industry. I hear people say this all the time 'I'll have to download it". It stands out to me. People are simply of the mindset these days that if they like something music wise they can just download it for free. Paying for music isn't even a consideration to many people. Hell I have friends who are hardcore music fans and haven't paid for a fucking thing in years. You think I'm the only person who knows people like this? Life adds up and the fact is A LOT of people take music for free and YES it impacts on the industry. To minimize or dismiss this doesnt' make sense at all.
I think the point about record stores is more that the culture of loving and appreciating music has deteriorated at the hands of the music bizz (amongst other things by killing the "magic" of the record store). And I agree, you know... kids today (*cough*) don't appreciate music in the same way we did. So much more one-hit wonders, so much emphasis on production, it all creates a kind of music fatigue that detracts from the value of music.
This we agree on 100%. It's disguting and rather demoralizing as a music fan.
