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- elevendayempire
- Rep: 96
Re: So.... What's Next?
While it's good that things seem to be moving in the direction of more music – and all credit to DJ if he's the impetus behind that – I can't help but feel sad that we're never going to get to hear those Buckethead/Robin tracks from the Chinese sessions.
I suspect that having put this band together, Axl's going to want to ensure that the next album is actually recorded by this band, rather than being a grab-back of tracks recorded over a decade. If nothing else, it'd be good for the promotion and alleviate some of the criticisms of GN'R being a revolving door of musicians.
But... no more Bucket/Robin tracks. 
- Me_Wise_Magic
- Rep: 70
Re: So.... What's Next?
I'm not sure that Axl will completely ignore those demos and tracks. I'm sure eventually the label they go into will release most of the material from the last several years as well as finance the current lineup's new album featuring songs written by DJ, Axl, maybe Tommy or Bumble.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: So.... What's Next?
I think Axl's approach has always been that it's about what makes the song sound finished to him - not who did it.
I mean by the time chinese was released both Robin and Bucket had quit the band but their solos remained. Likewise there's stuff from Brain/Paul and who knows who else who isn't around. I think Axl just keeps the perfect solo for each spot around.
So this means the bits where Robin/Bucket did something extra special he'll keep it, while stuff that was never quite magical is open for re-record.
Or that's my guess anyway - based on how it went with chinese. For example Frank didn't redo drums for the whole album, just on the song where he had something to add. Same with bumble - didn't redo every bucket solo - just replaced some of them and added other stuff...but some remained.
Re: So.... What's Next?
While it's good that things seem to be moving in the direction of more music – and all credit to DJ if he's the impetus behind that – I can't help but feel sad that we're never going to get to hear those Buckethead/Robin tracks from the Chinese sessions.
I suspect that having put this band together, Axl's going to want to ensure that the next album is actually recorded by this band, rather than being a grab-back of tracks recorded over a decade. If nothing else, it'd be good for the promotion and alleviate some of the criticisms of GN'R being a revolving door of musicians.
But... no more Bucket/Robin tracks.
I've always questioned how many of those tracks actually exist, completely anyways.
My guess is an album's worth. Listening to the cut n' paste job on Chinese, my guess is snippets of ideas are what mostly sit in the vault.
If there is some epic vault containing four albums worth of completed Robin & Bucket material, then...
What Axl should do is record an all-new original album with the current band with a different attitude, more hard rock oriented (less industrial) direction, and then leave the Robin/Bucket stuff alone and release it seperately as a "Lost Sessions" box set.
Re: So.... What's Next?
Agreed Axlin, it's a perfect way to continue on this path, however, I am still not sure if Axl writes mainly for himself or mainly for others. I doubt this perfect way of doing this will happen at all.
I voted "nothing" based on previous 15 years experience with this band, even if DJ Ashba has seemed to turn just about everything concerning these things on it's head.
Re: So.... What's Next?
misterID wrote:Axlin: I don't know what you mean by "a less industrial direction." CD is pretty hard rock sounding to me. Madagascar is the only synth driven track on the album. Sorry isn't an industrial song, niether is TIL, CITR, ext. And the album is very diverse to begin with. I like that. And I love the synth work. I think that's the best part of the new sound 
And getting a brand spanking new album, totally original by this lineup, that they wrote and recorded themselves, isn't going to happen. Just isn't. At least not any time soon. And tbh, I want to hear all that music he has left over.
Re: So.... What's Next?
Axlin: I don't know what you mean by "a less industrial direction." CD is pretty hard rock sounding to me. Madagascar is the only synth driven track on the album. Sorry isn't an industrial song, niether is TIL, CITR, ext. And the album is very diverse to begin with. I like that. And I love the synth work. I think that's the best part of the new sound
You may love it... but it's dated. Real dated.
There's a difference between timeless and dated. AFD-era rock is timeless. Industrial is dated.
As for industrial, other than Maddy, I love how you singularly picked out the UYI trx to prove that point, when is way off the mark. The Axl ballads aren't industrial nature, more Beatles/Queen/Elton-driven, which is why they have that timeless appeal and will NEVER get old (at least not to my ears).
But the rockers are what is off. It's not so much of an industrial attitude, as it is an industrial structure and style of the guitar. If you don't hear it, I don't know what to tell you. It's there.
Chinese is hard rock, up until the guitar solo which is full-blown industrial styled.
Shackler's is a full-blown Rob Zombie track.
Better is the same story as Chinese, and wrote by Robin Finck of Nine Inch Nails no less.
There Was A Time is an Estranged-styled UYI ballad, yet goes industrial-melodic with Bucket's solo.
Scraped = another Rob Zombie
Riad = seriously, you don't hear the Manson-isms in this song? Synth alone it's there.
Sorry is a "Grunge Floyd" song, not industrial at all.
I.R.S. is a UYI styled hard rocker that turns industrial around the "timmmmmmmmmmeeeeeeeeeeeee" then solo part.
Most of those are rockers. The ballads are completely opposite of that, including the solos. Even Finck's guitar takes on a different flow & tone.
And am I talking about the "noodly noodly" stuff? No. I know where Axl gets the influence for that sound -- Brian May. He gave birth to it. That's what he seems to be inspired to give all of those songs.
But May's solos had a flow and a natural progression as a musical piece that it never had an industrial sound (which of course wasn't around or at least wasn't popularized when Queen took off in the 70's).
Industrial solos and guitar works seem to have an almost mechanical sound and attitude, akin to an Architectual marvel building.
But it lacks soul. It lacks passion. It's too cold and steel and "show off".
Many times the guitar work in industrial songs (see White Zombie, NIN, Rage Against The Machine) don't even fit the context of the song. Which is what industrial is trying to do. Why? To create an abrasive sound, unique to that rock subcategory.
I could point you in the direction of some Doug Aldrich (Whitesnake) guitar solos which have a natural bridge that goes from soulful and bluesy, and build into a technical showoff, a throwback to vintage Eddie Van Halen.
Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal is the first guitarist in the history of GN'R that uses this style, and his Pink Panther solo shows it.
IF the next GN'R album takes this approach, then it will truely have a hard rock sound with that format of guitar shredding combined with soloing.
Unfortunately for Chinese, if these originally recorded guitar parts exist... they didn't make the album. What does exist is that abrasive style, leaving Chinese with an industrial flavor on the rockers. Like I said several of the rockers could be Hellbilly/Sinister Urge Zombie tracks.
Do I think this existed because of the why CD was cut and mixed to Axl's liking?
No
I think it was totally intentional. You don't hire Robin Finck to be your main man lead guitarist without this being your sole goal.
BUT
With Ron's rearrangement of Catcher In The Rye. A future exists with the hard rock format, as evidenced in that song. As well as the acquisition of DJ Ashba, which seems to be a throwback to Slash... obviously the future direction is to abandon the late 90's sound and go for a more traditional, classic rock sound for the next album.
jmho
Re: So.... What's Next?
And getting a brand spanking new album, totally original by this lineup, that they wrote and recorded themselves, isn't going to happen. Just isn't. At least not any time soon. And tbh, I want to hear all that music he has left over.
Says who? You're assuming that.
If DJ can whip up an album with Nikki Sixx, because Nikki is inspired by what he's doing... then i'm pretty sure the same can happen with Axl Rose.
DJ Ashba, Ron Thal, Richard Fortus, Tommy Stinson, Dizzy Reed, and Chris Pitman have been quoted or talked to at various times throughout the entire 2009-2011 tour, talking about how they want to write and record a new GN'R album.
Whether Axl wants to or not, that's a pretty big band consensus about what they want to do or where they want to go next. Axl can't just go talk down 6 of his band members.
Will there be Richard riffs and solos from the vault?
I'm sure
Will there be Tommy one-offs (think Izzy & Duff) songs sitting in the vault to make an album?
God I fuckin' hope so
Will there be more Chris Pitman Silkworms moments?
I'm sure there's a couple
Will there be one epic Robin/Bucket track re-recorded?
A guarantee
Will the rest be all Axl/Dizzy, DJ/Ron?
You betcha
As to how these will be released in the context of these album(s), is probably the million dollar question. Axl doesn't do "theme" albums, and has pretty much said he loves the Queen format of "there's something for everyone" on the record.
But much like DJ's rearranging of Robin's This I Love work and Ron's rearranging of Brian May's Catcher In The Rye work, these guys are gonna make their stamp EVEN MORE on the vault, so much to a point that short of album credits, I don't think the ear is even gonna be able to tell.
I also don't think if DJ's got a GN'R-themed Are You With Me, Smile & Help Is On The Way up his sleeve that Axl's just gonna throw a guaranteed hit single in the garbage to put out another Robin Finck track when DJ's standing right there writing material.
I also don't think Tommy's gonna have the backseat on the next record. This guy came in after Axl, Paul, Dizzy & Chris had wrote a bunch of shit. Tommy is gonna be more at the forefront next time. He may not be Izzy riff-wise, but he understands writing like Duff. Look for Tommy to be a BIG player on the next album, despite being a bassist. I wouldn't be shocked at some rhythm work either making an appearence.
My guess right now at this second....
25% vault
25% Axl
50% all new
