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Re: The Wrestling thread
Triple H put over Benoit, Cena and others. He's put over guys in the past but like Axlin said there is nobody on the roster right now who can carry the ball so why diminish Triple H when he's one of a very few legit superstars on the roster on the off chance a guy might be able to do it. they did that in the past and it back fired huge with Benoit.
I hear the arguement that guys need to be put over in order to build their character but the problem is there isn't enoguh top tier superstars right now so if you have a guy like Triple H jobbing then who's left? Thats why guys coudl do the job back in the day because there was enough top tier talent to rebuild thinsg. If Triple H jobs to CM Punk then what? Does he feud with Cody Rhodes? And if so how do you make Cody Rhodes get over on Triple H? It's not somthing I can buy into. I'm guessing there's more who feel the same but.... I don't know. the roster just used to be loaded with superstars and these days there's none. Half of them look like rejecets from WCW. A bunch of Buff Bagwell type guys.
As for Orton I just think he's dull. All around dull. I've never liked him. I'll give him credit though the sold Sweet Chin Music better than anyone.
Axl S that HBK vs Hogan clip is awesome. I remember watching that match with my buddy who was a huge Hogan fan growing up and he wanetd Hogan to win going into the match but as the match went on he chanegd his tune and wanetd HBK to win. When Hogan pinned HBK we both rolled our eyes at how lame that was.
Re: The Wrestling thread
I agree with you there, to a degree- it would be bad if Triple H lost too much, but hell he's only had four matches this year and is not a regular, he really should have done the job to Punk if they don't plan to use him in a full-time in ring capacity. Also this was not required:
[uTube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pWYPChOYHk[/uTube]
He helped get Sheamus over earlier in the year by laying down for Sheamus (after Sheamus had attacked him backstage). He returns, Sheamus comes out and gets buried.
This is a guy who just recently won King of the Ring and was a 2-time WWE Champion at the time. He's meant to be one of the stars for the future and that helped no one. Triple H is already over, we just need a three minute video package of him brutalising people to remind us of that. Don't need him to bury a fresh new main event talent.
I agree with Orton- he is dull, used to find him a whole lot more entertaining. That said he has become phenomenal in ring this year.
They need to establish some new top talent fast, and they are doing that to a degree. The quickest thing to do is of course elevate the talent that's been stuck at the fringes of the main event scene with one final big push. They did that with Christian this year, giving him his first two title reigns, they've done it with Henry, and they're doing it again with Kane. These are recognisable faces from the Attitude Era that can be built up fairly quickly with a few solid big clean wins, that are reliable vets in the ring that can help the new talent, so it's not all doom and gloom... the only problem is they need to be doing more of it, where they can, and fast.
Re: The Wrestling thread
The main thing was, if they were wanting to put CM Punk over, which as of right now I'm seriously doubting, but they didn't want HHH to job to him, they should have had an ending that helped both guys. Like the HHH/HBK matches. Have it a two out of three falls match. Or a ladder match. Or have Nash come out and they restart the Kliq. They didn't. It was stupid. I think HHH even came out the next night and said the finish was lame.
And I hear Vince has a hard on for trying to get Miz as a main eventer. Austin, Rock and HHH always had great feuds. Punk doesn't.
You're either going to build a guy up or you're not.
They seriously need Paul Heyman back in creative.
Re: The Wrestling thread
Triple H buried Sheamus in Feb. this year. That led pipe Sheamus win last year was to give Triple H some time off and a month before that Triple H beat Sheamus clean at Wrestlemaina.
I'll give that he put over Batista, which helped him out. The Cena thing however; Cena was the major star in the company even then, there was no way he was losing at Wrestlemaina, despite fans starting to turn on him. Even then Triple H beat him the biggest star in the company clean repeately in several rematches.
Benoit was already an established Wrestler, who wrested several main events and got pushed pretty strongly since he jumped ship from WCW in early 2000. His real rub came from Stone Cold in 2001 3 years before he finally managed to beat Triple H.
Cody Rhodes is a midcarded, he isn't pushed as a main eventer and hasn't really got a serious push since the last few months.
The majority of wrestling fans would disagree about HHH's reccord of putting people over if you went to one of those forums, or used PWTORCH or the Observer.
As to HBK vs Hogan, there was a planned rematch were HBK would get his win back, Hogan back out before the first match. HBK was furius, but Hogan had the greater pull with Vince.
Re: The Wrestling thread
The main thing was, if they were wanting to put CM Punk over, which as of right now I'm seriously doubting, but they didn't want HHH to job to him, they should have had an ending that helped both guys. Like the HHH/HBK matches. Have it a two out of three falls match. Or a ladder match. Or have Nash come out and they restart the Kliq. They didn't. It was stupid. I think HHH even came out the next night and said the finish was lame.
And I hear Vince has a hard on for trying to get Miz as a main eventer. Austin, Rock and HHH always had great feuds. Punk doesn't.
You're either going to build a guy up or you're not.
They seriously need Paul Heyman back in creative.
The legend goes Punk, would have been released not long after he first joined. Heyman wanted Punk to submit out Big Show at the start of the awful first and only ECW PPV main event, as a big shocker and make Punk a star. Both men agreed, but Vince chose Bobby Lashley. Heymen left and the creative were thinking up ways to bury Punk, till HBK objected and spoke about giving Punk a chance.
The HHH beating Punk was a disater alright, but Punk also should took a few months off after that MITB deal. He came back 8 days after leaving with the title, helping Triple H win over the non mark fan section of the audience. Punk was getting tons of interest in wrestling during those 8 days out and won alot of new fans. The momentum was completely thown away after that.
Was too soon for another Cena/Punk match, they should saved the build for a few months laters and used Rey Mysterio/John Cena at SummerSlam.
Re: The Wrestling thread
I think they thought, because of MITB Chia. would catch on with that chant right away. They even booked another PPV in 4 months for that city, which is the shortest turn downtime for major shows not in NY that I've noticed.
I think Kane's promo was silly personally, shouldn't have spoke after getting the mask back. The ending with Cena showing the crowd reactions are getting to him were good though.
Re: The Wrestling thread
The Cena stuff was the best. Very well acted by him.
It's about time for him to turn heel.
I think Cena could rebound from the whole Hogan image if he was more of an outlaw type like Austin, where just as you predict what Cena will do, he does something else and keeps the audience on their feet, rather than the predictable shit over and over.
It might actually put him over with the audience more.
Re: The Wrestling thread
Brock Lesnar announced his retirement from MMA tonight after he was TKO'd by Alistair Overeem in the 1st round by a brutal leg kick to the ribs.
Brock is an absolute beast but the reality is he got into MMA way too late. I was surprised when Shane Carwin handeld him in the first round of their fight and although Brock got the submission win that showed he wasn't invinceable. Then when Cain smashed him pretty good I wasn't sure Brock would become the dominant heavyweight the way many thought(I was one of them who thought he'd be dominant). I didn't think Brock would win tonight just based on Alistair's extreme advantage when it comes to experience. Brock is a freak athelete and maybe the best athlete at the heavyweight division in MMA but you've got a guy who's still learning and extrenely green compared to guys who have been in the game for a decade or more. The odds aren't good and it showed tonight. Brock managed to cut Overeem over his right eye but other than that Overeem's striking ability was just way too advanced for Brock.
I give Brock all the credit in the world. In his 7 fights with the UFC he was 4-3. Although his loss to Frank Mir was a total domination where unfortunately Brock got caught in a submission. But of his 7 UFC fights 6 of them were against either the former Champ, the current champ, the # 1 contender or a guy like Overeem who was the DREAM heavyweight champ, the Strikeforce heavyweight champ and the K-1 Grand Prix kickboxing heavywieght champ. Overeem now has an excellent shot at defeating Junior Dos Santos to become the UFC heavyweight champ. And for those who don't watch or care about MMA to give you an idea of the guy Brock was fighting tonight, Overeem weighed in at 6'5" - 263lbs. Brock weighed in at 6'3" 266lbs.
So Brock never fought a chump, never took easy tune up fights and with next to zero MMA experience he stepped in and fought the very best heavywieghts in the world and in the end came out with a winning record for his career. And let's not forget Brock was in fact the UFC heavyweight champ at one point and defended it successfully twice. Something that rarely happens in the HW divsion. All this while dealing with the life threatening disease diverticulitis where he had two sugeries to correct the problem.
I give Brock huge props. Took balls to do what he did and he did it. Now my money is on seeing him back in the WWE at some point...
