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Re: PJ20: The Official PEARL JAM Thread
Anyone can say what they want about this band, but there are VERY few bands that could get on stage, sing three words of a song and let the audience do the rest. Eddie wrote that song pre-PJ as well. He was hesitant to let PJ have it because he thought it was too catchy. They thought about putting it on Ten.
This band is huge. And it's amazing how huge they got considering the fact that they spent the first part of their career trying to sabotage it. Not making music videos at a time when that's how bands got played and refusing to tour Ticketmaster venues were bold moves. Same with doing hardly any interviews, becoming less personal with everything. These guys are a true rock band. There is no act about them.
How many times could Eddie have died from hanging off of rafters and stage diving from incredible heights? Not many bands can say they have a singer that crazy.
Eddie and Cornell are on another level entirely. Not many singers can do what they do. They both have this amazing ability to captivate a crowd without a backing band.
The Into the Wild soundtrack is one of my all time favorite albums as well as Cornell's Euphoria Morning.
Re: PJ20: The Official PEARL JAM Thread
The only time I started to get a real whiff off them was when they started getting increasingly political, mainly Eddie.
I love everything about the guy, right down to both he and myself bleeding Cubbie blue, but...
Anytime a band gets political they draw a very fine line. I don't really like it. But at the same time I understand they had a point and a message and a reason to say whatever they needed to say at any given time they got political, but still...
The reason it bothers me so much is alot of times bands put their foot in the mouths. For example, "Vote For Change".
Huh?
So Bush is a "Bu$leaguer", but yet the opposite of the system is the exact same thing!
To me at it's core, Rock SHOULD NEVER support government or authoritarianism on ANY level. That's why Rock exists. It's anti-establishment. Not anti-Republican.
To me it just looks stupid. Alot of rockers think when they get booed for it that they somehow have more street cred because their opinion is not the popular opinion, yet in reality they are supporting the same oppression on the flip side.
Government is Cola. Choosing Pepsi over Coke does not make you some bad ass rock n' roller with an opinion. It makes you just as deaf, dumb, and blind as the stuff you're preaching against.
Once again, jmho.
I love everything about the guys, except that aspect. I don't mind them being political, but I think at it's core rock should always be "fuck the man", and borderline anarchist.
Now for human rights issues, like Pro-Choice, Pro-Gay... that's totally cool. I'm fine with that, and honestly encourage it, but it's more about "Vote for Change". That was the moment I was like, "okay come on guys, this isn't the same fuck Ticketmaster, fuck the Grammy's, fuck radio, fuck MTV" band.
Re: PJ20: The Official PEARL JAM Thread
It was still the same band standing up for and speaking out on what they believed in and that IS rock n' roll. As bands get older they're not gonna be all about "fuck the man" cause the reality is there is a "man" and he needs to work to the benfit of all. Bands change their tune because they mature and they take a stand. They pick sides and hopefully hold thier side accountable. Pearl Jam taking a stand against Bush is in no way the same as say.... Green Day taking a stand. It wasnt' contrived on Pearl Jam's part. They didn't use it as a marketing scheme to sell albums the way Green Day did. It was real. As people we're allowed to voice our opinions on anything we want. As artists they are as well and they're allowed to express it through their music and if it's a cause they believe in then I say all the power to them when it comes to using their celebrity to rally people. I have no problem with Pearl Jam doing it because I would assume they've done their research. They're basing their opinions on actual substance. That's where it's fine in my opinion. What I can't stand is celebrities take a stand because at the time it's the popular thing. Lend their name to a cause that seems popular in hopes of getting attention and increasing sales.
The guys in Pearl Jam didn't like the Bush adminsitration so they had every right to speak out against it and if they felt voting for the democrats was the right thing to do then they spoke out in favor of that. Expression is Rock n' Roll. Not selective expression. That's a called playing it safe.
Would anyone have a problem with .... Ted Nugent writing a song about the Democrats and Obama?
the reality is Pearl Jam aren't in thier early 20's anymore. They are grown men and the government plays a part in their lives. They're more socially aware and so things that weren't topics at the age of 22 are now very important topics in their late 30's early 40's. It's just a fact of life.
Personally I'd find it pathetic if a band went their entire career with a Rebel/anarchist attitude.
Re: PJ20: The Official PEARL JAM Thread
How would that be pathetic?
Fuck Bush, but vote for John fucking Kerry, a rich burecrat?
Do you see how retarded that is?
To me the Rebel/anarchist is the only one who has actually full bore credibility. It's consistent.
Telling people Bush is whatever Bush is, but basically saying "this other guy is not", is either short-sighted, lying, and/or delusional.
And "it wasn't popular"... bullshit. Pearl Jam just happened to beat everyone to the punch. I remember that time in American history, and everybody in Pearl Jam's (basically liberal-elite) camp, came out instantly against the move towards a war in Iraq.
There was nothing ballsy about what they did. The wheels were already in motion, and they jumped on the train like followers. They just happened to get a bad crowd one night who didn't agree with them.
So frankly under your interpretation -- Pearl Jam = Green Day. The only exception is, I truely don't believe Pearl Jam did it to sell records. They're not that desperate.
I just thought it was the least rock n' roll moment of their entire career. It seemed like a bandwagon moment for them.
And you know what, if Nugent did a "fuck Obama" song, he'd be a bandwagoner too, if he did promo shows basically saying "Vote for Palin, or Vote for Gingrich".
He'd look like a fucking moron. A fucking sellout. A fucking politician ball licking, non-rock n' roll, pussy. He might as well go and start playing lite jazz, and Kenny G covers, with Yanni as special guest.
That's what "Vote for Change" was all about. You had Pearl Jam and Springsteen running out there saying "Vote For Kerry" basically, which was pretty much what that entire tour was about, which was the lamest thing of all time.
If bands get older, and change, that's fine... but if that's the case that was Pearl Jam's "sellout" moment. Not Ten, unlike what Cobain thought.
Re: PJ20: The Official PEARL JAM Thread
How would that be pathetic?
Fuck Bush, but vote for John fucking Kerry, a rich burecrat?
Do you see how retarded that is?
To me the Rebel/anarchist is the only one who has actually full bore credibility. It's consistent.
Telling people Bush is whatever Bush is, but basically saying "this other guy is not", is either short-sighted, lying, and/or delusional.
And "it wasn't popular"... bullshit. Pearl Jam just happened to beat everyone to the punch. I remember that time in American history, and everybody in Pearl Jam's (basically liberal-elite) camp, came out instantly against the move towards a war in Iraq.
There was nothing ballsy about what they did. The wheels were already in motion, and they jumped on the train like followers. They just happened to get a bad crowd one night who didn't agree with them.
So frankly under your interpretation -- Pearl Jam = Green Day. The only exception is, I truely don't believe Pearl Jam did it to sell records. They're not that desperate.
I just thought it was the least rock n' roll moment of their entire career. It seemed like a bandwagon moment for them.
And you know what, if Nugent did a "fuck Obama" song, he'd be a bandwagoner too, if he did promo shows basically saying "Vote for Palin, or Vote for Gingrich".
He'd look like a fucking moron. A fucking sellout. A fucking politician ball licking, non-rock n' roll, pussy. He might as well go and start playing lite jazz, and Kenny G covers, with Yanni as special guest.
That's what "Vote for Change" was all about. You had Pearl Jam and Springsteen running out there saying "Vote For Kerry" basically, which was pretty much what that entire tour was about, which was the lamest thing of all time.
If bands get older, and change, that's fine... but if that's the case that was Pearl Jam's "sellout" moment. Not Ten, unlike what Cobain thought.
It's all your opinion dude and Pearl Jam had their's. Can't protest going into Iraq if the US wasn't going into Iraq. Of course they had to wait untill the wheels were already in motion. What they did is the epitomy of Rock n' Roll. You're suggesting Rock N' Roll is form fitted to only a certain attitude and that is NOT rock n' Roll. That's called being a poseur.
Sorry dude but you're interpretation on this is people in music can have an opinion on politics but they should keep their mouths shut and not express them. That is so NOT rock n' Roll. You're basically calling them sell outs because they didn't agree with your political stance. If they hated Bush and felt Kerry was the better option then why not voice that opinion? Why stiffle an opinion just to be rock n roll? That's called being a try hard and that's called not sticking to your convictions. You suggesting they should conform to a preconcieved notion of Rock n' Roll is not rock n roll.
Acting like a teenager and saying "fuck the man" your whole life is pathetic in my mind. At some point people gotta grow up and take a stand one way or the other. The thing is had Kerry been elected I guarantee you Pearl Jam would've been vocal about it had he done a shit job. We'll never know though. But you can't call a band less rock n' roll because they took a stand. To sit back and yell 'fuck the system" blah blah blah is just hippie bullshit. Basically that attitude promotes the idea of not voting and not trying to udnerstand what's best for the system. I'm pretty sure everyone kwnos the sytem sucks but you work with what ya got and in this case Pearl jam didn't want to work with Bush so.....
It's a tired idea that rock n roll has to be "fuck authority" it really is. Rock n' Roll is about passion and expression whatever that may be.
Re: PJ20: The Official PEARL JAM Thread
Wait a minute, are you serious?
So the "fuck authority" idea is tired.
But being a liberal-leaning anti-war rock band... isn't a tired concept?
Are you for real? Really?
They looked like fools. Country artists kissing Republicans asses look like fucking morons too. You can't be a real outlaw, when you support the man.
You just can't.
Re: PJ20: The Official PEARL JAM Thread
Wait a minute, are you serious?
So the "fuck authority" idea is tired.
But being a liberal-leaning anti-war rock band... isn't a tired concept?
Are you for real? Really?
They looked like fools. Country artists kissing Republicans asses look like fucking morons too. You can't be a real outlaw, when you support the man.
You just can't.
And that's it right there. Being an outlaw isn't what Rock N' Roll is about. That is a tired idea without question.
You're saying nobody in music can have an opinion or take a side in politics. It's gotta be all "fuck the man, anarchy!!!" or nothing? That's ridiculous. What did you think about the Dixie Chicks stance against Bush? Pretty rock n' roll or just stupid? Yet if they supported Bush they'd have been country artists kissing republican asses.
Pearl Jam did not look like fools. They looked like a group that was willing to speak their mind and express how they felt. That = Rock n' Roll.
Re: PJ20: The Official PEARL JAM Thread
Believe it or not, I thought the Dixie Chicks was an entirely different thing. I thought they FULLY entitled to say "we're ashamed Bush is from our state".
There is NOTHING wrong with that.
It got tunred into a "patriotism" thing, which patriotism is the dumbest fuckin' concept of "submitting" to imperialism. Fuck that.
Do I think patriotism is a complete waste conceptually? No, but I think "doing thy bidding" for the elitists is not patriotism. jmo
Pearl Jam did something different. PJ went out and actually performed shows to say "vote for this guy", which is the same thing if they would've did a private show for a John Kerry fundraiser.
That's incredibly lame for a rock band. Rock at it's core is about fucking with the establishment, not about submitting to it. Which is what they did, then, now & forever. They'll never escape that.
Listen the bottom line is it's a difference of a opinion between me and the band. I don't hate them for it.
Here's Axlin's policy:
If i'm in a band that is very vocal, very issues-oriented like PJ. And they say, "hey man let's do this Pro-Choice show" -- i'm there. "Hey man let's do this gay rights show" -- i'm there. "Hey man let's do this support the troops show" -- i'm there. "Hey man let's do this Vote for the other guy show" -- no, i'm not doing that. "Hey man let's do this anti-war show" -- fuck no i'm not doing that.
That's the policy.
