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- Topics: Active | Unanswered
- killingvector
- Rep: 21
Re: Robin vs. DJ Ashba
Unproven from a commercial standpoint.
GNR are a COMMERCIAL band.
Check please?
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Robin vs. DJ Ashba
Point to me ONE... just ONE all time classic guitar riff on this album
There isn't one. But to be fair - I never got the impression during any of the CD saga - that Axl's agenda was to write a guitar driven - guitar inspired hard rocking riff album.
If anything it seems it was always the opposite. We all knew he was interested in industrial. He was interested in ochestration - in adding synths and all kinds of other things to his ballads...you can see it getting stronger as an influence in his work - from the small touches on AFD (synth in PC, sex noise in RQ) to the full blown effects in UYI (phone call on KOHD, use of strings on NR, do i need to mention my world?)
I think Axl's choice of players reflected this interest. Robin plays guitar strangely. It's a love or hate it thing. But he's different. Bucket is advent guard.
Yes they lack those riff skills, but I think that's why they're brought in. In 1997, what does Axl need with those skills from a third party? Could have phoned Slash up and sorted shit out. Hell, depending on your version of events, Axl wasn't all that interested in 5 O'clock somehwere (or not without wanting to mess with it to a point where slash went home) which is an entire album of AFD style riffs.
So yeah, I agree...CD isn't a guitar album....but I don't think it was ever susposed to be...there's guitar solos on it...but the entire approach to the album is like the difference between scoring for a quartet vs an entire orchestra.
Doesn't make the people who play in the orchestra bad...it's just they're only supossed to add their little touches.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Robin vs. DJ Ashba
To me...time or not what Axl acomplished was near impossible.
He managed to create something that's true to his artistic vision, that explores and evolves in new styles while still fitting in with his prior works.
For example, in a way Catcher is nothing like Breakdown, and in a way it's everything like it.
And he did all this under pressure from the label, and hell, society, not to do it, and he did it in the face of his own heartbreak or other personal issues of the time, and (blame and fault aside) somehow he made a GNR record without 4/5 of the people who are GNR and especially without the key song writers (izzy/slash) of the old band.
In all honestey, it has to be a form of genius or madness to even attempt to pull off something like that....opinion is divided on if he should have done it, or if he has done it, but to my ears, I think it's a great record he's made.
So yeah...Robin or DJ...I like them both...DJ because he plays the old stuff closer to Slash and I think that his writing contributions will be great for Axl....and Robin because he did some great stuff on CD...and helped make it what it is.
Re: Robin vs. DJ Ashba
faldor wrote:And again, I'm sure Robin could've called Axl and they could have worked something out to keep Robin in the band. It never happened, so Axl was left with no choice but to get someone to take his place. Robin was completely silent after he re-joined NIN, nobody knew what his plans were. At least, that's what we were told. If he had said, I'll come back to GNR once plans to tour/promote/etc. are finalized, I don't think Axl would've had a problem and he'd still be in the band. Richard Fortus made it clear while touring with Thin Lizzy that Guns was his top priority. Robin could've done the same, but he jumped ship and made NIN his top priority. That's fine, he had his reasons, and lord knows I understand he must've been frustrated by working so long on something and not to see it materialize. But Dizzy, Richard, Chris, and Tommy stuck around. Robin didn't.
I think you assume a lot of detail of information when very little is known of how this transpired. We know Axl was surprised to learn Robin had begun working with NIN again, but we also know that this occurred during a period of prolonged inactivity in G&R.
We do not know what Robin's contract status was when he left. We do not know if any G&R plans were brought to the players for the forseeable future. We also do not know what communication existed between the camps after Robin signed to play, including whether Axl made inquires about whether Robin was committed to coming back after the tour.
We have heard many times how these players are left in the dark on the inner grumblings in G&R during these periods between tours. Robin was offered a chance to write and perform on an elaborate, extensive tour; his other option was to sit around and wait for G&R to send him contracts for a new tour which might not happen within the next two years.
Did Dizzy, Chris, Tommy, and Richard receive as attractive an offer? Loyalty is a bit of a slippery criteria to judge anyone in this band since everyone outside the front man is a paid, contract employee.
The only thing I'm assuming, is what we were told, or led to believe. That may be dangerous. But it seemed like the band was completely caught off guard by Robin's departure and they didn't know if he planned on coming back or not. Furthermore, they seemed completely open to letting him come back, but he never did. We don't know if he EVER contacted them one way or another and told them he wouldn't come back. Maybe he did. That would be the right thing to do.
Once again, I don't blame Robin for making the choices he did. But he made them, and in the end he quit on the band. Plain and simple. He was fed up? He had enough? 10 years of work, nothing to show for it? All valid reasons. But he left for a band that stopped being active a year after he joined. I'm sure he's happy with his decision and doesn't have any regrets, but I'm just saying.
Re: Robin vs. DJ Ashba
Here is another way of looking at it:
If Finck wasn't such a shit guitarist, maybe CD comes out quicker cause the great material wouldve been there.
I still hold BIG TIME to my theory that CD took so long to come out largely on the fact the material just wasn't up to Axl's high GNR standards. If CD,Maddy,The Blues were in fact THEBIG GUNS which i am pretty sure they were, my theory certainly holds water.
Ho-ly shit, your posts in this thread are so beyond ridiculous, with irrational facts you've pulled straight out of your ass, based on your love for riff based rock and hatred of Robin, that I'll just pick this post to respond to.
If Finck was a shit guitarist, 2 of the biggest bands in rock history would not have wanted him in their band. Just because you don't like, or appreciate his work, doesn't mean the entire world agrees with you or shares your taste.
Secondly, Robin's work on CD is the EXACT SAME as when he recorded it back when he first joined. Go listen to the early IRS and TWAT tracks without Buckethead. It's the same thing. And according to Tommy, who was actually there, Robin was not, or any member of the band for that matter, the problem of why CD took so long. And the biggest flaw of CD is the overload of guitars and sounds. Not the band or the songs.
And I have heard a lot of instrumentals of CD songs and the guitar work is AMAZING. It's funny you mention that because that's what I've been listening to lately.
I can't even think of a synth driven track on CD besides Madagascar and the intro for TWAT, which is still heavy with guitars. It's all guitar driven.
I haven't seen one shread of evidence that you've spewed out there that shows Robin was the reason for the delay and that he didn't have a right to be fed up and leave the band.
Your theory comes down to one thing = You Hate Robin Finck.
Re: Robin vs. DJ Ashba
Rex wrote:Just because it's not guitar driven doesn't mean it's a boring album instrumentally. If you listen on some good headphones you'll hear something new every time.
but by nature GnR is a guitar driven band, being a guitarist yourself you cant say that a piano/synth driven song is more satisfying than a guitar driven track...or maybe you can...i dunno...me personally its guitars that turn my crank
Just because it's not a riff fest doesn't mean it's devoid of any good guitar. Every song on CD has at least a good solo. Me, I'm an audiophile. I like to put my headphones on and get immersed in the music. For someone like me, CD is a cool record to spin.
Re: Robin vs. DJ Ashba
To me...time or not what Axl acomplished was near impossible.
He managed to create something that's true to his artistic vision, that explores and evolves in new styles while still fitting in with his prior works.
For example, in a way Catcher is nothing like Breakdown, and in a way it's everything like it.
And he did all this under pressure from the label, and hell, society, not to do it, and he did it in the face of his own heartbreak or other personal issues of the time, and (blame and fault aside) somehow he made a GNR record without 4/5 of the people who are GNR and especially without the key song writers (izzy/slash) of the old band.
In all honestey, it has to be a form of genius or madness to even attempt to pull off something like that....opinion is divided on if he should have done it, or if he has done it, but to my ears, I think it's a great record he's made.
So yeah...Robin or DJ...I like them both...DJ because he plays the old stuff closer to Slash and I think that his writing contributions will be great for Axl....and Robin because he did some great stuff on CD...and helped make it what it is.
I always thought the whole purpose of Axl making them Re-record AFD was so they could get an idea of what they needed to do etc.
