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- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Never mind Nevermind, 1991 was all about Guns N' Roses
Pearl Jam broke before Nirvana did and I can't speak for all parts of the world but Ten was much bigger where I live than Nevermind ever was. Everyone was into Pearl Jam very few were into Nirvana. Yes everybody liked Smells Like Teen Spirit but Pearl Jam was far and away the most popular new band. And it was legit.
Interesting...I'd tend to agree I think.
I'm 34, my perspective around people I knew was that GNR was big amongst people a couple of years older already because of AFD, and a few people my age were into that. Then in 1991 UYI hit and became massive with my age group - Terminator 2 - you could be mine - live and let die - everyone knew this stuff. I think it's revisionist to say that GNR's domance was on the way out. In 1993 I went to a show with something like 70,000 people here - and my school friends who couldn't go were envious. There was always that percentage that didn't get it - or that wanted to poke fun at Axl's kilt or whatever - but the band was pretty dominant.
In terms of Nirvana. For a long time to me there were very much an underground band. I had a freind that got me into them by playing some of "bleach" around 1990. I liked the vibe of it just cos it was so raw. There's fuck ups on the instruments, people coughing on the recordings. It sounded like when me and my mates would have a jam - except more talented lol - but because half of us were still learning our instruments and never practised - and the other half couldn't play at all - it was all about making loud noises and going nuts - and the song structures were simple yet plesently exciting for the day - the kind of things we could learn to play - whereas when you're first learning the guitar - and you look at EVH or someone like slash and it's just overwhelming. So I was kind of into them as a side interest. It's was like the difference between the house you want if you win loto and the houses you could afford if you get a bank loan. GNR was my all time dream band if I woke up a guitar god one morning. Nirvana was the kind of band I could actually imagine being able to do one day - if I kept learning guitar. lol.
So Nirvana was known here. But it was really amongst a small kind of click of people in my groups...most people had no idea who they were until Nevermind...then I would say the general public got to like "Come As You Are" and "Smells Like Teen Spirit" in 1991 - those songs were huge and put the band on the map as something people really liked. But I do think their music was still unapproachable for most people. It was kind of a sub-group - like everyone loved those 2 or 3 tracks - but most people wouldn't have been able to dig the rest of the album. Most people didn't know bleach. Only hardcores even knew of Incesticide. Then in 1993 In Utereo kinda gave nirvana some more songs that people who liked the pop hits on Nevermind could have - like "Heart Shaped Box" and "Rape Me". So now it was possible to make a mix tape of Nirvana tracks you could go nuts to without listening to the unlistenable numbers 
The real entry into "everyone loves nirvana" for people I know was in 1994 with unplugged. It functioned as a best off - putting all the radio-playable nirvana tunes together - (the ones girls would listen to as well you know) then stripping off a layer of the brutality by having acoustics and thus not the wall of distortion that scares the casual listener - then adding in a David Bowie track and a couple of other listenable songs - and all of a sudden nirvana is a band people who don't like loud noises or intense guitar can now enjoy too. Your sister can actually listen to the songs you've been going on about. This is when people seriously got into them IMHO. Then of course Kurt dies and the whole 27 club thing or whatever took it to a new level and by the time i'm 19 or whatever and going to clubs everyone's walking around in nirvana shirts.
As for pearl jam - I think they had mainstream accetance a lot earlier - as although grungy their music was more traditional as well IMO. Like guitar solos - less screaming - more kind of approachable. I've never got into them - only like a handful of songs - but most people I know were heavily into them for years.
I think they were a much more approachable band than nirvana!
Re: Never mind Nevermind, 1991 was all about Guns N' Roses
I went to an elementary school with 40 students and 3 teachers with no internet and 15 miles to the nearest record store. The only musical talk I can remember back then was a guy who ridiculously claimed to have been at the 93 gig (he was 10 and the gig 500 miles away).
That rape poster and death skulls made them HUGE among small kids back then. They were the ultimate dangerous. Like, you couldn't even get your hands on a tape because parents were freaking out.
In my country putting down Nevermind for good is the confirmation in to musical manhood. In middle school they were the ultimate band, but once you got in high school you'd get laughed at for listening to Nirvana. That's because they got overexposed to a laughable degree it became a rebellion to disown it. That album is alright, but it's miles from an AFD. Both Jam, Chains and Soundgarden put out several better efforts on and around then. Nirvana just jived a lot better for some reason with the corporate goons.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: Never mind Nevermind, 1991 was all about Guns N' Roses
Pearl Jam is a classic Rock band with an alternative singer. Nirvana was more of a punk bank with an alternative singer.
Re: Never mind Nevermind, 1991 was all about Guns N' Roses
misterID wrote:I'm sorry, but no marketing campaign made those kids by Nevermind in 1992 or anything else. A lot of guys seem to take offense to Nevermind's success. Did the media jump on grunge? Yes, but no one swayed any kids to get into Nirava when they debuted in 1992. Labels and media were still treating hair metal as relevant. I'm sorry Bret Michaels, Poison was a joke, as was the entire hair metal scene and the moment kids found something else and you werent' popular anymore, they dropped them, just like boy bands.
Alt rock of the late 80's helped Nirvana. The media jumped on Nirvana and Grunge after Nirvana's succes, not before. The media never sets trends, they're always chasing it and then bastardizing it.
GN'R did own 1991, though. 1992 was Nirvana's year, but GN'R were right there with them. November Rain was HUGE.
Pearl Jam are the ones who came out fo the gates and blew up "grunge" The media jumped on it when Nirvana released a poppy hit single in Smells Like Teen Sprite. I don't resent Nirvana's success but I do resent their legacy because fact is Pearl Jam broke before Nirvana did and I can't speak for all parts of the world but Ten was much bigger where I live than Nevermind ever was. Everyone was into Pearl Jam very few were inot Nirvana. Yes everybody liked Smells Like Teen Spirit but Pearl Jam was far and away the most popular new band. And it was legit. It wasn't forced upon us by the media the way Nirvana was. I clearly remember back in 1992/1993 thhinking the media needed to give it a rest because they were making Nirvana out to be something they were not and they continue to do so.
Nirvana's legacy was a produt of media manipulation. Not marketing campaigne but media manipulation. I compare it to Radiohead's legacy. I love Radiohead but my fucking god did the media milk that shit. Ok Computer the greatest album ever and the transformation the band made from that to Kid A suddenly made Radiohead this artistic band with more integrity than any other band out there? Give me a break. U2 was doing Radiohead before Radiohead was doing Radiohead. Kid A is an average album in a genre loaded with artists who do that stuff better but the media needed something to blow up.
Nirvana put out some great stuff but they get WAY TOO MUCH credit for changing the landscaoe of music. It started with Pearl Jam and when Pearl Jam remained true to what they belived in by avoiding MTV and magazine covers Nirvana jumped all over that. they did the music videos, they did the magazine covers and all of it. Pearl Jam was everything Kurt Cobain claimed himself to be.
Again I can only speak for the place I live but Pearl Jam was THE band in terms of the grunge movement and I didn't even like Pearl Jam back then but I coudl see it and feel it. It was never Nirvana despite what media wanted everyone to believe. Pearl Jam's Vs album was much more anticipated than Nirvana's In Utero. Ten also had more it singles than Nevermind.
Most people are scared to say this but in essence Nirvana was a one hit wonder. There was a movement taking place and the media latched onto the catchy pop single with a grunge tone and one that was titled "Smells Like TEEN SPIRIT" Gee I wonder why they picked that and ran with it.
I am not getting into all this mess....but, to Radiohead and U2... after The Bends and OK Computer, I really thought Radiohead was the next U2 (the U2 I loved from War through Achtung Baby). Then, Kid A, Kid B, and Kid C came out and I was HIGHLY disappointed. The last album King of Limbs is unbearable. They went in the complete opposite direction. Now, they just literally fart around with bleeps and burps while watching Yorke dance like a hopped up college freak on ecstasy. 
Love Jam, Nirvana, Soundgarden and Guns....all for different reasons.
Re: Never mind Nevermind, 1991 was all about Guns N' Roses
i dunno man Nirvana was pretty huge around me
PJ were too...and STP for that matter
When the Crow soundtrack came out the #1 selling feature around me was that it had a new STP track on it
SG & AiC were the underdogs back then from my memory
GnR were huge too obviously...and U2 & Metallica
was an insane time for tunes 
Re: Never mind Nevermind, 1991 was all about Guns N' Roses
Always preferred PJ to Nirvana. Their songs are somewhat catchy, but quite simple and nowhere near as deep as people made them out to be.
There's a place for Nirvana and they were certainly influential, but I never thought of them as the best of their era...I guess it would have been interesting to see if/how they would have grown.
Re: Never mind Nevermind, 1991 was all about Guns N' Roses
I'm sorry, but no marketing campaign made those kids by Nevermind in 1992 or anything else. A lot of guys seem to take offense to Nevermind's success. Did the media jump on grunge? Yes, but no one swayed any kids to get into Nirava when they debuted in 1992. Labels and media were still treating hair metal as relevant. I'm sorry Bret Michaels, Poison was a joke, as was the entire hair metal scene and the moment kids found something else and you werent' popular anymore, they dropped them, just like boy bands.
Alt rock of the late 80's helped Nirvana. The media jumped on Nirvana and Grunge after Nirvana's succes, not before. The media never sets trends, they're always chasing it and then bastardizing it.
GN'R did own 1991, though. 1992 was Nirvana's year, but GN'R were right there with them. November Rain was HUGE.
You have got to be shitting me right? Nirvana were the most commercial pushed band of that entire fucking scene.
Alice In Chains, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, all of them were FAR more talented with FAR better songs, and although people did take notice to Pearl Jam, Nirvana were the ones being pushed by MTV over and over and fucking over.
I like Nirvana, but Smells Like Teen Spirit is really fucking average for them. AIC had like 4-6 INSTANTLY catchier songs on Facelift in 1990. Did they get a push? NO, because it wasn't "cool" yet.
Pearl Jam's Ten shits all over Nevermind and twice on Sunday, yet it also is NEVER discussed when referring to that era.
In Utero... now THAT was a fucking album, but the media beats that Nevermind drum so goddamned much, that I bet 9/10 people in the whole "scene", couldn't name you 5 fucking tracks off of Nevermind. Yet it "changed the landscape of music".
No, the fucking Beatles changed the landscape of music. I bet there are entire albums of titles that could be recited. THAT is an album that makes an inpact.
I'd go so far to say that Metallica's Black album was so universally accepted and appealing that it influenced more people than Nevermind, yet no one is talking about it, were still on Nevermind.
I really like the album. All i'm saying is, the media BUILT NIRVANA. Plain and simple. I'm actually kinda shocked you disregarded my statement so quickly. All Bret Michaels was saying was actually admitting that the whole 80's glam metal scene was 'pushed' on the masses, which it was. The only reason grunge skyrocketed with Nirvana being used as the poster child, was capitalist record companies saw profit margins beginning to shift, and found something new to push. No different than jumping from Sega Genesis (hair metal) to Sony PlayStation (grunge rock). Same concept applies.
Re: Never mind Nevermind, 1991 was all about Guns N' Roses
I am not getting into all this mess....but, to Radiohead and U2... after The Bends and OK Computer, I really thought Radiohead was the next U2 (the U2 I loved from War through Achtung Baby). Then, Kid A, Kid B, and Kid C came out and I was HIGHLY disappointed. The last album King of Limbs is unbearable. They went in the complete opposite direction. Now, they just literally fart around with bleeps and burps while watching Yorke dance like a hopped up college freak on ecstasy.
Love Jam, Nirvana, Soundgarden and Guns....all for different reasons.
Fucking rights dude. I Loved Radiohead Pablo-OK era and after that it's so hit and miss, mostly miss. And what irritates me most is the pretentious Radiohead fan who feels if you're not down with the post OK Computer stuff as though it's the best stuff ever created you're a slave to top 40 bubble gum pop as if to suggest they themselves had no appreciation for the early Radiohead material because it was top 40; which is of course complete and utter bullshit. Hardcore Radiohead fans are the worst music fans on the planet.
When the Crow soundtrack came out the #1 selling feature around me was that it had a new STP track on it:
That's interesting cause that soundtrack was really popular but in my school the dominant tracks seemed to be Burn by the Cure and Dead Souls by NIN. I remember the midget hockey team(2 years older than eme at the time) used Burn by The Cure as one of their warm up songs even. I always thought that was really cool.
- metallex78
- Rep: 194
Re: Never mind Nevermind, 1991 was all about Guns N' Roses
The dumbest thing about it all, was that the grunge movement apparently was the anti-music answer to whatever rock bands proceeded that time (ie. hair metal etc).
Why couldn't I like both GN'R AND Nirvana? Why the fuck did I have to hate one to like the other. Oh right, because the media says what's cool and what's not...:ummm:
To me, it's all rock n roll, and all of those bands fuckin rock!
Oh, and Pearl Jam were HUGE here in Australia. Nirvana only really broke after Kurt off'ed himself and that Unplugged CD came out, just like Monkey said. Then EVERYONE was on the bandwagon...
Re: Never mind Nevermind, 1991 was all about Guns N' Roses
There it is. Thank you. Somebody gets it.
I love grunge, but there is nothing wrong with party-rock (IF IT'S GOOD), it has just as much a legit place in the existance of rock as grunge.
And I remember it being quite popular. It didn't lose it's popularity because it was "over". It lost it's popularity because MTV suddenly didn't deem it cool anymore, and everyone followed like that Dawn of the Dead-zombies they are.
Today, I don't see alot of attitude towards Nevermind, I see ALOT more attitude towards hating on GN'R, Bon Jovi and Whitesnake... ALOT more.
