You are not logged in. Please register or login.
- Topics: Active | Unanswered
Pages: 1
Re: On Ron as 3rd guitarist (2006)
Caught this passage from Mick Wall's WAR, which is mostly a completely excerable book.
"But don't think from all this bonhomie that the mad, bad Axl Rose of old has somehow been transformed into a pussycat. As if to underline that fact, insiders say he threw a massive tantrum just a few days before the Bach/Trunk interview [05/05/06], when the band's management tried to resist his decision at the last-minute to add a third guitarist to the line-up." - WAR
From CW
"We started recording [the solo track Bernadette on] April 27th, [and soon after] I got a call from Guns N' Roses to join the band and start rehearsing the next week for a comeback tour starting the week after. I had my first rehearsal with Guns on May 3rd, our first show was 9 days later." (Bumblefoot, Official Site, 01/18/11)
First off, the timelines match in the sense that the alleged tantrum would've been thrown almost exactly when Ron would've showed up with his gear to rehearse for Hammerstein.
"With Buckethead having bailed out for the second and final time in 2004, Axl had initially been content to continue the band with the twin guitar shape of long-time cohorts Robin Finck and Richard Fortus, but the closer they came to the four Hammerstein shows, the twitchier Axl became about going out without a recognised “shredder.” - WAR
This above passage doesn't contradict the reported auditions in April 2006. And since they tried (and failed) to lure Bucket back, auditioning a new player would've likely started after his "no, thanks".
The idea that I'd be getting is that,
Plan A: Tour with Finck & Fortus only
Plan B: Get Bucket back
Plan C: Audition for a Bucket replacement
.
.
.
.
Plan X: When all else fails, call the dude you scoffed as a replacement a few years earlier.
Given how beneficial the Ron inclusion has been to everybody (especially the fans), one can only shake one's head at the idea of having Axl and his cronies as employers. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure Ron's there because he wants to be, and he may be mates with Axl, but the biz side of things has always been a mess in the Guns organization.
Sometimes they get lucky, but apparently, will do everything in their power to prevent that 
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: On Ron as 3rd guitarist (2006)
Fudementally although I know there were overdubs and stuff - the old songs were all designed to play live with 2 guitars - so I've always felt the 3 guitar model added a lot of excess to the sound.
On previous tours it didn't work. Like Bucket seemed to do nothing for large amounts of the time, while robbin seemed to struggle with faster passages of slash's work. Just made no sense.
I used to be very anti it - but I will say the Ron/DJ/Richard model seems to have found a good balance and way to divide the songs.
All that said...if you are going to have less guitarists...one of them needs to be bad ass that can do the shred stuff ala chinese democracy - so one of them needs to be Ron or a Buckethead or a similar player.
I think 2006 GNR minus Ron would have been significantly lacking something, so I'd say Axl made the right call on this one. But I'll grant you it does seem to have been last minute!
Re: On Ron as 3rd guitarist (2006)
Fudementally although I know there were overdubs and stuff - the old songs were all designed to play live with 2 guitars - so I've always felt the 3 guitar model added a lot of excess to the sound.
On previous tours it didn't work. Like Bucket seemed to do nothing for large amounts of the time, while robbin seemed to struggle with faster passages of slash's work. Just made no sense.
I used to be very anti it - but I will say the Ron/DJ/Richard model seems to have found a good balance and way to divide the songs.
All that said...if you are going to have less guitarists...one of them needs to be bad ass that can do the shred stuff ala chinese democracy - so one of them needs to be Ron or a Buckethead or a similar player.
I think 2006 GNR minus Ron would have been significantly lacking something, so I'd say Axl made the right call on this one. But I'll grant you it does seem to have been last minute!
When I hear the old songs, I actually hear parts for three guitars. There's two rhythm tracks going at the same time the leads are playing.
Re: On Ron as 3rd guitarist (2006)
I think the basic idea was that Axl and/or his people attempted to get Bucket back all the way up until the final weeks before Hammerstein. There were rumors at the time of Bucket's return, after the reunion stuff calmed down.
If I remember correctly their original "fail safe" option if Bucket didn't return was pre-Chickenfoot Joe Satriani. They asked and Satriani turned them down, but recommended an unknown to GN'R, "Bumblefoot".
They actually wanted Satriani to my knowledge.
Re: On Ron as 3rd guitarist (2006)
when Finck left that was the time to revert back to two guitarists
dj is completely superfluous
for better r worse he doesn't add the flavour or style of robin & he sure as shit doesn't have the chops of bucket r bumble & bumble could handle anything that dj plays w/4tus on rhythm
they did get lucky w ron but dj has been pointless
after this tour axl & GnR should shed some weight
Re: On Ron as 3rd guitarist (2006)
I find myself somewhat agreeing even though I prefer DJ to Robin, as isolated players. I enjoy DJ's tone and feel more than Robin.
See here's the thing. Unless Axl is gonna use DJ's writing ability and cut new GN'R records, even if they were to become a studio-only band, THAT is where DJ's strong suit is gonna be. Writing his modern-rock solos (which are damn good usually), and writing his nice melodies, and then let Axl works songs into them.
THAT is where DJ will shine. Trust me.
But Axl... just won't fuckin' go there. Which is what kills my interest in this band 9 times out of 10. DJ is currently be WASTED, just like Tommy Stinson has been basically wasted since he joined up over a decade ago.
Other than me prefering DJ's This I Love solo to Robin's, can anyone else tell me something that DJ shines in? 'Cause I swear to God I don't remember.
Better hasn't been the same since Robin, because it was Robin's fuckin' song. I'll give the Finckster that.
Ron basically does the majority of the beefy solos, and quite well I might add.
Richard, although NOT "the secret weapon", has come across at times as the 'riff' guy the band needs. His solo spots at times, and some buried stuff in the CD Mogg mixes, reveals some nice riffs. His live spots reveal a nice ability to solo.
I'm not quite sure why Richard wasn't just promoted to Robin's old job, and a nice rhythm guitarist found, if Axl has no intention of recording with DJ.
At this point, i'm pretty convinced that DJ could be let go, Richard moved to lead 1, and Duff brought back and thrown on rhythm guitar instead of bass... no one would tell the difference.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: On Ron as 3rd guitarist (2006)
Well if you had a 2 guitar line up it would really make most sense to have DJ and Ron.
Richard has kickass chops and is rock solid on rhythm...so it's nothing personal....this is just a hypothetical.
But if you had DJ and Ron what could happen is they share solos..with Ron doing most but DJ getting some of the blusier ones and the robin parts from chinese. When each plays a solo the other does the rhythm.
This keeps the most technical player (Ron) in the band ensuring that ANYTHING is possible and it also keeps DJ in the band ensuring a fertile future in the creative writing department should Axl decide to go that way.
Re: On Ron as 3rd guitarist (2006)
Well if you had a 2 guitar line up it would really make most sense to have DJ and Ron.
Richard has kickass chops and is rock solid on rhythm...so it's nothing personal....this is just a hypothetical.
But if you had DJ and Ron what could happen is they share solos..with Ron doing most but DJ getting some of the blusier ones and the robin parts from chinese. When each plays a solo the other does the rhythm.
This keeps the most technical player (Ron) in the band ensuring that ANYTHING is possible and it also keeps DJ in the band ensuring a fertile future in the creative writing department should Axl decide to go that way.
if axl get's his finger out, that is merely speculation @ this point
this idea of his songwriting being his strongest suit for being the reason DJ remains in the band is weak
Axl hasn't released or produced a new song since CD & we all know how inconsistent his creativity & writing were during that process. what evidence is there to suggest DJ is going to unlock the vault & that Axl even has the desire or anything to say?
no, DJ as a writing force just isn't going to cut it
as for his solo's again i go back to the vs. Finck debate. he's there not as a "shredder" a la Bucket & Bumble & not as rhythm a la Izzy/Gilby or even 4tus. he's there for a bit of colour & extra flavour like Finck, there to process the solo's with his own 'feel' (as long as it's not too far off the original). but he doesn't have the personality of Finck or expressiveness. in effect he's a retread & a dilution of what went before. & really Ron, Nightrain aside, nails every solo & song he's asked to whereas DJ more often than not skewers his solo's & can't compete either technically or soulfully with Slash
(in actual fact when Finck left it was the moment to get Slash in but obv that was never gonna happen so the 2 guitarists was the way to head.)
why you drop DJ & keep 4tus is because Ron can take all of DJ's solo's (& more than likely improve upon them) & you can't really relegate DJ or Ron to the rhythm section if they're the only two guitarists in the band.
like Axlin said 4tus shoulda just been handed a little more responsibility when Finck left (tho still they need to take Maddy from him) he coulda added whatever DJ is supposed to add
tho in his defence DJ does make a spectacle of himself moreso than the other members of the band
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: On Ron as 3rd guitarist (2006)
Axl hasn't released or produced a new song since CD & we all know how inconsistent his creativity & writing were during that process. what evidence is there to suggest DJ is going to unlock the vault & that Axl even has the desire or anything to say?
no, DJ as a writing force just isn't going to cut it
I'm not saying it WILL happen, i'm saying it's good he is around so it's possible that it could happen.
Think about his past history - Izzy provided the basis of a lot of the GNR tracks people love. Slash is known for pumping out Riffs in any of his bands and contributed a lot of the great riffs. Axl worked with both those guys to make stuff even better than it would have been without him.
He's also written songs with Del James, and later became inspired by Paul Huge to write a lot of the CD tracks.
I think what is actually few and far between are the solo Axl tracks. They exist - like November Rain (it's origin pre the guitars anyway) and This I love and probably others...but generally it seems the key to getting GNR songs is giving axl a song that excites him and makes him want to add his magic to it.
DJ has shown riff writing abilities in motley crue and Sixx Am, he's also known to dabble in a lot of the production stuff that axl seems into. We also know he's sent stuff to Axl.
If you had only 2 guitars, in terms of chops to be the lead guitarist it should obviously be Ron. But I think in terms of writing ability - DJ+Ron leads to more GNR style guitar parts than Richard+Ron - although I don't know if richard is a writer - just saying he's not known for it and DJ is.
Re: On Ron as 3rd guitarist (2006)
I think the basic idea was that Axl and/or his people attempted to get Bucket back all the way up until the final weeks before Hammerstein. There were rumors at the time of Bucket's return, after the reunion stuff calmed down.
If I remember correctly their original "fail safe" option if Bucket didn't return was pre-Chickenfoot Joe Satriani. They asked and Satriani turned them down, but recommended an unknown to GN'R, "Bumblefoot".
They actually wanted Satriani to my knowledge.
I believe you're right with the Satch connection, only that he recommended Ron to them in 2004. This is when Ron made his connection with Guns public, and things went a bit haywire when the control freaks of the organization got wind of it.
IMO, Ron showed some character to jump back in to the bandwagon in 2006 to save their sorry asses.
I think what is actually few and far between are the solo Axl tracks. They exist - like November Rain (it's origin pre the guitars anyway) and This I love and probably others...but generally it seems the key to getting GNR songs is giving axl a song that excites him and makes him want to add his magic to it.
I think that's a pretty fair assessment on how Axl approaches his song-writing. He probably comes up with the outlines to piano-based songs, but a lot of time he does seem to want a band that's able to "complete" him, offering him raw material which he can tinker with.
Axl's strength are lyrics and production. This is the way it has been since the original Guns. If you have a solid band, which can work out backing tracks amongst themselves and put an epic solo there for good measure, all Axl "needs" to do is to come up with the words and up the ante.
This is why the old band came up with such good music. It was organic, with four people in the room coming up stuff for Ax to elevate. When the foundation is good, he can do that. If you stick a lot of stuff into ProTools in an attempt to mimic that process, it'll become patchy and additional production won't save the crumbling structure - a problem CD oft suffers from.
Pages: 1
