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Re: Alternate artwork (NEW scans inside!)
Ali wrote:Mikkamakka wrote:Don't you wonder what motivates a creative person like Tommy to continue with Guns? They very likely haven't written any new material since 2003. It's been 8 years. You'd want more than rerecord stuff alone, wait for others to rerecord stuff or tour almost the same setlist in every 4 years. I know he's doing SA, he's doing his solo thing, but there's nothing to exceed his creativity in GN'R. He's not Pitman who seems to be the closest person to Axl in the tinkering game. Dizzy has never had any ambition, same goes for Frank. Even the lazy Richard had enough and got side projects to tour (or to get some more money). I really don't understand why these guys like Tommy and Ron stick with Axl, except the fat cheque.
The "lazy" Richard? Uh, o.k. If you say so.
Ali
I consider a 40-year old _talented_ guitar player lazy, if he has zero writing credit and doesn't show an ounce of interest to create something. He's quite comfortable with playing other people's songs, be it Guns N' Roses, Thin Lizzy or whatever.
Perhaps you should educate yourself a little more on someone's history before making statements like you did. You just made yourself look clueless and foolish. There's a band Richard was in before GN'R, with Frank Ferrer actually, called Love Spit Love. Richard co-wrote several songs on both their albums.
Ali
Re: Alternate artwork (NEW scans inside!)
Ali wrote:James Lofton wrote:Microscopic hair splitting. An album that needs Ron to wank over a finished Riad or Fortus to strum an inaudible guitar is an album I consider finished. It's not like these were demos and the post 2002 lineup walked in and created an album to Axl's liking.
Are we to believe that if Ron, Frank, and Fortus do not contribute, Chinese Democracy is unfinished and we're still waiting for it in 2011?
Possibly. The problem is that it doesn't matter what you or I consider finished. It only matters what Axl considers finished and right and ready for release. He had to feel right with the album before it could come out, which is as it should be, frankly.
Ali
the real problem is, that axl had the final say in this project all these years.. we`re really beating a dead horse here. all these things were discussed for years and years. the record was finished, even mixed at least 5 years prior to its release. the 2006 "demos" are chinese democracy as it should have been released. it boggles my mind to listen to perfectly mixed "demos" like better and irs from 2006 compared to the amateurish cut and paste job we got as the finisehd product in 2008... anyways... i`m going to bed now, it`s too depressing to deal with all this bullshit
In your opinion, the 2006-2008 demos are how the album should have been released. I don't entirely agree. And, again, it doesn't really matter what we think. Axl's view of what is right and ready for release is the only one that matters when it comes to actually getting a finished product in our hands.
Ali
Re: Alternate artwork (NEW scans inside!)
Ali wrote:WARose wrote:the real problem is, that axl had the final say in this project all these years.. we`re really beating a dead horse here. all these things were discussed for years and years. the record was finished, even mixed at least 5 years prior to its release. the 2006 "demos" are chinese democracy as it should have been released. it boggles my mind to listen to perfectly mixed "demos" like better and irs from 2006 compared to the amateurish cut and paste job we got as the finisehd product in 2008... anyways... i`m going to bed now, it`s too depressing to deal with all this bullshit
In your opinion, the 2006-2008 demos are how the album should have been released. I don't entirely agree. And, again, it doesn't really matter what we think. Axl's view of what is right and ready for release is the only one that matters when it comes to actually getting a finished product in our hands.
Ali
So you agree that the album that was released is the "finished product" and there's no way it could've been released prior?
Yes, in the sense that wherever the album was when it came out is where it needed to be in Axl's view, apparently, for it to come out.
Is it possible the album could've been released sooner? Sure. Maybe the title track didn't "need" Ron's fretless rhythm track. But, I certainly prefer it with that part in there.
I will say though, that the I think the final album tracks sound much better to me in many cases, in terms of mix and overall sound quality. I love the final versions of "I.R.S." and "Better" with Frank's drum parts in there and their final mix and quality. The leaks to me sounded a little pinched.
But, again, as far as what is and is not ready for release and suitable as a finished product, I'm only saying that the only opinion that ultimately matters when it comes to getting a proper album in our hands is Axl's.
Ali
Re: Alternate artwork (NEW scans inside!)
the record companies view of what is right and ready for release is just as important as Axl's.....
Not to me it isn't. The record company's motivations are different than the artists. I wanted in this case, and in every case, to hear the record that the artist envisioned.
Look, clearly the label wanted the album out sooner and it didn't happen.
So, while the record company has an equally important say, if not more actually, in the overall business side of things, A) their desire to get the record out did not get the record out so there was some other factor more powerful than their desire, and B) the music is the artist's creation and I want to hear it as they envision it, period.
Ali
- Mikkamakka
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Re: Alternate artwork (NEW scans inside!)
Mikkamakka wrote:Ali wrote:The "lazy" Richard? Uh, o.k. If you say so.
Ali
I consider a 40-year old _talented_ guitar player lazy, if he has zero writing credit and doesn't show an ounce of interest to create something. He's quite comfortable with playing other people's songs, be it Guns N' Roses, Thin Lizzy or whatever.
Perhaps you should educate yourself a little more on someone's history before making statements like you did. You just made yourself look clueless and foolish. There's a band Richard was in before GN'R, with Frank Ferrer actually, called Love Spit Love. Richard co-wrote several songs on both their albums.
Ali
You are so extremely arrogant and stupid at the same time that I'd put you on my ignore list. But I've always fought against your kind, Axlite. I know Richard's pedigre quite well, thanks. Some songs he wrote in the 90s cannot justify his past 15 years of nothing.
Don't you miss HTGTH? That's your place, go back to the fellow brainwashed zealots. 
Re: Alternate artwork (NEW scans inside!)
Ali wrote:Mikkamakka wrote:I consider a 40-year old _talented_ guitar player lazy, if he has zero writing credit and doesn't show an ounce of interest to create something. He's quite comfortable with playing other people's songs, be it Guns N' Roses, Thin Lizzy or whatever.
Perhaps you should educate yourself a little more on someone's history before making statements like you did. You just made yourself look clueless and foolish. There's a band Richard was in before GN'R, with Frank Ferrer actually, called Love Spit Love. Richard co-wrote several songs on both their albums.
Ali
You are so extremely arrogant and stupid at the same time that I'd put you on my ignore list. But I've always fought against your kind, Axlite. I know Richard's pedigre quite well, thanks. Some songs he wrote in the 90s cannot justify his past 15 years of nothing.
Don't you miss HTGTH? That's your place, go back to the fellow brainwashed zealots.
I'm arrogant? I'm not the one insulting someone without taking the time to either get properly educated on their track record or take it into account.
You said he has zero writing credits. You did not originally specify "in the last 15 years". So,t hat original statement is clearly false. You said he doesn't show an ounce of interest to create something. That is something neither you nor I have ANY clue about whatsoever. That is an arrogant and presumptuous statement. You are presuming to know what Richard is and is not interested in. Unless you're a mindreader, you can't know that.
The old fall-back, Axlite, huh? Too bad this has ZERO to do with Axl. 
Ali
