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- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Duff on Gnr split
That "Paul was the inspiration" thing just has always been a hard, HARD sell to me, 'cause i've got so many other former GN'R insiders and band members saying the exact opposite, including Izzy himself.
Yeah, that's true.
However they arn't exclusive ideas.
Axl maybe missed the balance Izzy brought to the band. Izzy was Axl's friend in the band - and he had enough in common with slash as guitar nerds to make it all workable. He may have also missed the friendship on a personal level.
And of course songwriting - it always seemed that those two could whip out gems faster than the tortured process of writing CD - even though I think the CD songs are now at a very high standard.
The way I would guess it. Is that axl had needs - friendship needs and creative needs that Izzy used to fullfill in the band. With izzy gone the dymanics changed and that left a vacancy in Axl's world.
He ended up getting partial fulfillment from paul...but that doesnt mean it felt the same or that it was quite right at first.
If it were girls. Paul is the girl who steps in and claims you when your ex dumps you. She makes you feel less alone, and without her you might have been totally fucked, but that also doesn't mean you won't dream of your lost love. 
This analogy is making me uncomftorable, So i'm stopping there!
Re: Duff on Gnr split
Axl misses Izzy's amazing ability to just write an amazing Dylan-esque tune in nothing flat. To come up with a riff that can just revolutionize a Guns song.
Maybe it's just coincidence, but GN'R seemed to move along a bit better in terms of artistic output when Izzy was there, and also hasn't been the same creatively since the Fall of 1991.
And I agree with you on Paul. He was the rebound, so Axl went balls deep in that, while secretly wanting his ex.
Re: Duff on Gnr split
a little more in depth
http://www.avclub.com/articles/duff-mckagan,56106/I guess this should be in another section....some cool info in there as well about specific songs...
Killer interview. Love it when they give Izzy kudos for being such a crucial member of the band. All us old timers already know that, but I like seeing it said anyways. GNR goes nowhere without him.
Would LOVE to hear the acoustic version of It's So Easy. Many years ago Slash also talked about all those AFD tracks being done acoustically in the demo stage. Would also like to hear that Duff track that inspired Jungle.
There was a great Duff interview from earlier in the decade where he places a lot of the blame for the breakup on Axl's inner circle, not just lawyers.
I thought the West Arkeen stuff was cool and the Jungle stuff. Man, AFD was such lightning in a bottle. Funny how no one gives Arkeen shit but they give Tobias/Huge shit all day. To me, kinda shows you outside guys were in the mix always. Anyhow, good stories.
Wasn't Arkeen also on those Crash Diet, Bring It Back Home, and Just Another Sunday demos? Pretty sure he was but my memory a bit hazy.
but I think Slash was pissed as hell that Axl fired Gilby, in favor of Paul, because the entire band loved Gilby, and for no good reason Axl shitcanned him.
Not entirely true. I can understand some GNR members being pissed at Gilby's firing. Hell, I was pissed too cuz it made no sense as Gilby had just released an album that had a few killer tunes worthy of a GNR album. However, while he was promoting that, he started running his mouth about GNR's lack of activity in mainstream magazines. NOBODY else in the band was talking yet Gilby starts airing dirty laundry. When Axl, Slash, and Duff aren't talking, he most definitely shouldn't have been talking. They had just finished a massive world tour that broke records at the time. Bringing up new material less than a year after that tour and TSI was no time to be whining about the lack of progress on a new album.
While a brand new album with Gilby in the lineup in that 95-97 time frame could have been awesome, Axl had every right to be pissed off.
Mikkamakka wrote:And don't forget that Paul is a really shitty guitar player. He's the worst guitarist I've ever seen in a band that released an album.
James, you want to answer this?
I know Mikka isn't a huge fan of Chinese and while it didn't blow me away completely either, it does have some great songs and Paul was a crucial member of that 2001 lineup and they were responsible for 99.9% of that album. That lineup deserved to tour that album properly when they were still together.
Like has already been said by others, Paul just gets tons of heat because he stepped in during that awkward transition from the UYI lineup to the revolving door that continues to this day and ex members blame him for the downfall.
Slash etc storming out of sessions because of Huge's sneering comments (referencd to by Matt when Slash left the band). Huge was an Axl sneak who was out for himself.
Yeah that incident bothered me as well. Huge was in no position to be doing such things. Whether Axl agreed with it or not, a bitch slapping from the hand of Axl was definitely needed.
I don't think Axl turned Guns into a traveling circus by 1994-95. I enjoyed the Stones-esque 1992 shows. I thought Guns N' Roses were pretty great even in that form.
I realize some people prefer that 92 period(some even rave on 93), but in my opinion that era peaked early in the summer of 1991. It was the core unit before it got bloated and they had something to prove before those records hit store shelves.
Like Slash wanting to do a club tour in 1993/94 to support TSI
Bad idea but it would have been interesting. That album was not promoted at all and sold poorly by GNR standards. They were wore out anyways from that massive tour. No way in hell could they have sustained that tour into 1994.
Axl then wanted to do MTV Unplugged circa 94/95
It really sucks that the Unplugged series never featured GNR(or Soundgarden). GNR had so many songs to choose from and the fact they may have pulled some obscure covers out of their hat the way most artists/bands did during an Unplugged set would have been epic, but it just wasn't gonna happen at the time. The PERFECT moment for a GNR Unplugged would have been that downtime in 1989-90.
GN'R are too big for club shows
They have played clubs during every single era of the band. Hell, that massive UYI tour started with three club shows.
Those credits are highly suspect. Considering nobody actually talked about production all that much, and the fact Axl is credited on every single piece, something tells me those were credits simply for royalty purposes.
I have a real hard time believing Tobias wrote something like There Was A Time, possibly one of the greatest Guns N' Roses songs in the band's history.
I believe it. In those chats, Axl said Huge was the only one who even remembered all the credits. If we're gonna call into question Huge's credits, we have to call into question ALL of Chinese credits. The only song that ever seemed fishy to me was Riad as Stinson is credited with that and it basically sounds like an outtake from Transmutation. I'm sure he wrote it but I wouldn't be surprised if he worked with his nemesis Buckethead on the track.
"There would be no Guns N' Roses without Paul"
That statement alone shows Axl's thinking can be delusional at times. What Guns N' Roses? I don't remember seeing Guns N' Roses performing in 2001.
Come on. They performed that killer Rio show that year. As far as Paul "saving" GNR, it's an absurd comment from the outside looking in but maybe Axl was referring to tensions in the CD lineup. We know Bucket and Finck were at odds, and Stinson did not like Bucket. Maybe Paul was the "referee" during these feuds.
Re: Duff on Gnr split
It was alluded to several times also that Paul only was there as a favor of Axl. Although i'm sure Paul didn't mind composing, he didn't seem to WANT to be in GN'R. I definitely think that was an Axl "do a favor for me" situation.
Because to ask Slash & Duff, there would be no GN'R without Paul... they saw Paul as one of the main reasons the real GN'R died, was stupid moves just like that. Regardless of Axl being pissed, Gilby's firing was a huge cut from a knife into a deep vein of the band in their eyes. It wasn't Gilby himself, it was the fact Axl didn't seem to give a fuck, nor consult them as to their feelings about it. They saw it as Axl going full blown dictator in the band by that point.
Him turning around and leaving their business partnership in 1995 and taking the name with him (and with it the assets), was another power move on his part, which just strengthened even more the divide in the band.
As for Tommy, I always questioned that Riad credit too. Total Bucket/Brain track... I have a hard time believing that Tommy wrote anything in that, other than the bass line.
As for 1992, I was simply saying GN'R were still bad asses.
But yeah, the 1990-91 "Use Your Illusion studio band" GN'R was the best incarnation of that band to ever exist imo.
Great post btw
- Intercourse
- Rep: 212
Re: Duff on Gnr split
As far as Paul "saving" GNR, it's an absurd comment from the outside looking in but maybe Axl was referring to tensions in the CD lineup
It is absolutely absurd, I fully agree. The thing is Axl seemed to believe he was GNR so if Paul saved him then Axl believed that he saved GNR too.
The core band members hated Paul and he was the straw that broke the camel's back yet according to the band's leader he saved the band. It's fucking nuts that the band dynamic was so fractured that there was a chasm between the band and Axl.
People just have to accept that Axl didn't 'lose' or 'fuck up' in his mind by killing the old band. This is how he wants it. As we have seen and heard, no amount of money can make him turn around and abandon the model of GNR he controls today.
He see's no issue in bringing Duff & Izzy up to play a few tunes to blow fans minds; but then happily sends them packing again when they have done their ten minutes down memory lane like its the most normal thing in the world. He genuinely seems to look at them like they were from a different band altogether.
When Newstead played with Metallica at the RNRHOF shindig people were fucking blown away. To have the old and new on the same hallowed turf of the live stage working together without issue. It was a big statement. James/Lars and Jason knew that and appreciated it.
Axl just sees this revolving door as the most normal thing to do with a band. He has put up old core members of GNR with hired hands, let the crowd drink it up then return to business with the hired hand as the core guy gets off.
Its like serving your dinner guests a fillet steak starter then giving them a Big Mac for the main course. And I'm not insulting the new guys here, it just they have not been alloweed to develop any 'profile' or 'fame' in GNR as they are rarely interviewed have nothing to say about GNR when they finally get asked and are not promoted as band members in the media.
Its tough on the new guys (as the crowd remember just what they are missing against what they have now) and weird for the old guys (digging up old glories just to snuff them out again).
Its such an odd way to manage your band.
Re: Duff on Gnr split
Metallica also didn't have several different incarnations either. Having two bassists, or calling Mustaine up for a few songs is not near the issue there is with having entire bands on stage.
Having Guns N' Roses perform a show with Axl, Slash, Robin, Bucket, DJ, Ron, Izzy, Gilby, Paul, Richard, Steven, Matt, Brain, Frank, Dizzy, Teddy, and Chris would be gut-busting comedy.
I'm a diehard fan, and even I would laugh in hysterics at something like that. It'd be totally absurd.
Nice analogy btw. Steak before the Big Mac, lmao.
- Mikkamakka
- Rep: 217
Re: Duff on Gnr split
Maybe Paul is a bit over-credited @ CD, as he was the one who told Axl who wrote what.
"Paul helped get a lot of the base credits etc together which were extensive. He's always had a good memory on that stuff and it's generally important to him to be as ethical as he's capable which is invaluable." -Axl
I don't buy the 'Paul was the 6th member of GN'R from Day 1' tale either. Or 7th, if you count the 'Dizzy was an original member, too' tale. Paul didn't write with the band. I doubt that the others, beside Axl, had even met him. He was Axl's friend, like a lot of other hangers-on, but it doesn't make him a member or a co-writer or anything. I'm sure he played guitar in his bedroom for Axl, and I agree that with Izzy gone, Axl saw a void to fill. But Jesus, bring in somebody to GUNS N' ROSES, the BIGGEST BAND OF THE WORLD, to write with him, AXL, SLASH and DUFF? Someone who has no stage experience and hasn't written anything (except a core of 2 songs later reworked by GN'R)? That's nonsense. Doing this without even consulting with the others is the most arrogant and hostile move a frontman has ever done in the history of rock. Add that Paul is a very bad guitar player (Izzy wasn't a virtuoso either, but comparing Paul to him, Izzy was EVH) and you get the picture.
I think Axl hated the other guys so badly in the early 90s (remember his comment about the UYI Dead! band picture) that all he wanted to do is briniging other people to work with, and Slash and Duff would have had no role except 'exploring' those Paul Huge shitty ideas, that even Tommy criticized later. No wonder that a guitar god rather left his huge band and chose the unknown, than working for Paul Tobias.
- Intercourse
- Rep: 212
Re: Duff on Gnr split
has any GNR member other than Axl had anything positive to say about Paul?
