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Re: Chinese Democracy now $1.99
Yeah, I meant to say that he obviously wasn't happy with the release of the album, but I'm talking about the band; how he's rolled out the band, his own image, promoting the band, not just the album... I'm sure he doesn't see a problem with it. I'm betting he doesn't even see/fathom the opportunities he's blown with the Bucket/Robin/Brain line up he had.
Considering what he had, the chance he had... It's tragic. He doesn't seem to see it the same way.
Re: Chinese Democracy now $1.99
Yeah, I meant to say that he obviously wasn't happy with the release of the album, but I'm talking about the band; how he's rolled out the band, his own image, promoting the band, not just the album... I'm sure he doesn't see a problem with it. I'm betting he doesn't even see/fathom the opportunities he's blown with the line up he had.
Considering what he had, the chance he had... It's tragic. He doesn't seem to see it the same way.
Are you solely speaking of the 2001 (Bucket/Robin) lineup? I think it's clear that was HIS vision of what GNR was going to be for the new era. Once Buckethead left, that hope was lost. And then to top it off, Robin left too. Even he could probably see the ridiculousness in having so many lineup changes in such key positions. They need a stable lineup for some time, and stable music output in order to get people to take them seriously again. We'll have to see what happens with the next album, if it ever comes. If we get more of the same, then you'd be right. Maybe Axl just doesn't care anymore, or that's just the way he rolls these days. But if it's handled differently and more traditionally, then maybe the events, twists and turns of the CD era, were just nearly impossible to deal with in a rational manner.
Re: Chinese Democracy now $1.99
In 2002 he really didn't give a shit. He looked awful, he looked like he was going through the motions on stage and there was no album. Not to mention he walked off his comeback tour without giving a single reason why. He had to know the band didn't want to sit on their ass and not do anything. They had a vault full of material ready and he wouldn't release it. When the label WANTED IT. And people were excited about the new band.
He just vanished. Didn't even try to push the band. Again, I don't think he understands how big that band would have been. Why in the world he didn't go full throttle right then, like it looked back in 2001 at Rio, I'll never know. Maybe he doesn't care.
What gets me is that he really seemed to get serious about making a comeback in 2006 after Bucket left. I know he was trying to get him back before the NY shows, but he really seemed serious about kicking ass again. He was in the papers. He was going out. Banging models. Looking good. Sounding fantastic. Doing interviews. Going to premieres...And then he vanished again. He had another huge opportunity to be big then, which I would have never guessed he'd get another chance after the fiasco of 2002. And he blew it.
Again, I don't think he sees the damage he did to himself. At least not to the extent that we do.
To be fair, if I remember right, the album was finished about a year before it was released so maybe he was planning to really push it after ending the 06 tour (remember they were ending the tour to finish the album?) and then at some point he said fuck it.
I just really don't understand his thinking.
Just want to add: The reason why Robin and Bucket left was because they weren't going anywhere with the band and no albums were released. Bucket was in the band five years before he quit. The album wasn't released until four years after that. Robin was in the band for 10 years. Nothing to show for it but some great sporatic shows and unfinished tours. And Axl was actually shocked that they both left. That's my point.
Re: Chinese Democracy now $1.99
Good points. It is, and will remain a mystery. We'll probably never know why things unfolded the way they did or why things were so badly mishandled and mismanaged. And obviously, in the end, Robin and Bucket can't be blamed for leaving. Buckethead sensed it much earlier than Robin that this was a disaster in the making that he'd like to distance himself from. But that certainly slowed down the process and erased any momentum that they had built up.
On the surface, it certainly seems like Axl was at the center of it all and deserves much, if not all, the blame. But who knows what was going on behind the scenes, and I'm sure Axl would tell it differently.
Re: Chinese Democracy now $1.99
I think it just comes down to Axl not having the ambition he used to about kicking ass and being the biggest thing around.
i think there is something to this too.
i think really it's a combination of a lot of the factors we've mentioned & probably a lot of shit we don't know about.
there's isn't one specific reason as to why things have turned out the way they have (except the obv, that 'axl is an asshole' - and as we know the obvious answer is usually the correct one!) just a lot of petty stupid BS
at the same time GNR hit a plateau of fame & sales a long time ago that the brand/name will always ensure a headliner status. i think axl is comfortable with the level the brand is at, the lack of releases and promo's is evidence of that - if he wanted to push the band he could sanction blu-rays/dvd's/live albums.
but i don't think that 'lack of ambition' is a critical issue in the CD clusterfuck & band-members dropping off - i think the reasons for that stem from axl's general pettiness, reluctance to do anything that he doesn't want to do, & procrastination. of course that behaviour creates other problems.
i think he realises what he has lost when bucket left - hence the efforts made to bring bucket back & the slowness to replace him & record new material.
but yea i don't really understand his thinking either. it's really all guesswork & speculation. but there is a narrative & info around & axl's behaviour has resulted in a lot of the negativity that has always surrounded this band. but it's also what makes them special & unique so... rough with the smooth n shit & waiting without holding our breath..
Re: Chinese Democracy now $1.99
Another thing, this current band could still be successful. Not as successful as the 02 line up could have been, no way. But still make people aware of them and be a player, possibly on the level of Stone Sour. All he has to do is take it serious. Do some gigs on a late night show, release an album, get some band pictures and spread them around to magazines, do just a little press and...... RELEASE SOME MUSIC.
The fact he isn't even trying to do any of that right now pretty much confirms that he's of the mindset he's going to go about things in his own lazy way it'll be accepted no mater what... Maybe he doesn't even care about his work or band being accepted. I don't know. All that really doesn't matter to me, tbh, I just want to hear new music.
Re: Chinese Democracy now $1.99
on the level of stone sour? if axl was still on that level he would have a reason to work his ass off. as long as gnr gets paid one million dollar for some shows you can`t blame axl for the way gnr is run these days... and you obviously underestimate gnr`s possibilities even these days. give them a new album with at least one hit single and decent promo (involving axl being out there again) and they`ll be quite big again even in the us. i don`t agree with you on the 2002 tour by the way. his outfit and voice were not quite what they used to be, but axl kicked major ass performance wise. just watch one of the boots from the 2002 tour, axl was significantly fitter than these days.
Re: Chinese Democracy now $1.99
I still don't get the whole concept that people were excited about the 2002 band. They weren't. A few of you were. People weren't. That's just wishful thinking on your part.
Well, I think they were more excited than they are now. The music industry was still somewhat together at that time, CD's actually sold somewhat. People still cared about rock music to a point. Their chances at making a impact were much better back then.
Re: Chinese Democracy now $1.99
buzzsaw wrote:I still don't get the whole concept that people were excited about the 2002 band. They weren't. A few of you were. People weren't. That's just wishful thinking on your part.
Well, I think they were more excited than they are now. The music industry was still somewhat together at that time, CD's actually sold somewhat. People still cared about rock music to a point. Their chances at making a impact were much better back then.
I'll agree with most of what you said. I think the people that were/are excited were more excited then. I don't know that more people were excited then. I could make a strong case that post WMAs, people (in general) were as unexcited as they could possibly be.
Personally, I think there's more hope now than there ever was in 2002. I still think there's close to no hope, but I fall in the more excited now than I was in 2002 category.
