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Re: Dj Ashba to Electrify Our Nation’s Call to Arms January 8, 2011-AMA Su
No you're not confused. I guess you could call it 'Viewpoint 3', which I fall under.
The live acts wouldn't have anything to perform for you, if it's not for the existence of written, composed and recorded original studio material.
Without that material, they leave no mark as Guns N' Roses.
Thus, my opinion that studio writing and contribution are what makes a band member a band member and thus - Guns N' Roses.
Then again, there are people who would argue that Axl Rose decided that Robin Finck, Brian Carroll, Paul Tobias, Tommy Stinson, Josh Freese, Brian Mantia, Dizzy Reed & Chris Pitman would all get writing credits on Chinese Democracy, HIS Guns N' Roses album, so they don't count as a "band" GN'R, because Axl's their boss, unlike the old band.
I don't look that deep into it. I look at Chinese Democracy as a "band" effort from the guy's listed above as of the sessions from 1999-2001. They all have writing credits on the album, which pretty much proves it. Yet, we don't look at Caram Costanzo as a band member, so I guess you could be right.
I just look at it, without the written studio material, the live players have nothing to perform. So who's the REAL band?
Re: Dj Ashba to Electrify Our Nation’s Call to Arms January 8, 2011-AMA Su
Actually if anything using the drummer analogy proves my point. Since the beginning of GN'R, Axl has used drummers like kleenex. The irony is other than Brain, Josh Freese is the only other GN'R drummer to have co-written a GN'R song, yet never performed live with them.
They have always been treated like they are "replaceable". I thought at least Brain would be spared, but even he was forced out when he had other obligations in life. Axl has shown NO loyalty to ANY drummer he's ever worked with. It amazes me that any drummer still would sign up to work for the guy.
Damn! Being a GNR-fan sure isn't easy!
To me it doesn't seem like the drummers that have been in GNR post 97 have had it that bad.
Sure it seemed like Josh Freese wanted to be in a band that was more productive. I think I read somewhere that Axl got a "thank you" on A perfect Circle's debut "Mer de Noms" because Howerdel/Freese was given the OK to bring material they created for GNR over to APC.
And the Brain/Ferrer situation seems to have been handled without any serious hard feelings on anyone's parts. Brain has given interviews lately where he talks about working on GNR stuff to this day. And Axl has confirmed that he constantly works on GNR stuff from his house/studio.
These past comments from Axlin08 and Monkeychow would make a casual rock fan shake his head in utter comic amusement! Not saying either of you are "wrong". The comments are legit, as far as both your preferences go. And if GNR release a follow up to CD with a mixture of "old" songs with new "finnishing touches", the situation becomes even more comic (if that's the way you wanna spin it to make it fit your preference!)
But just as Matt Sorum and Gilby Clarke, without little or no writing-credits have been a member of GNR. So is everyone in the current lineup.
Like Axl said (surrounded by the current lineup) in that short Abu Dhabi video-interview: "We are Guns N' Roses!"
To me it's THAT simple! But hey! I'm an uncool "nutswinger", so what do I know!
Re: Dj Ashba to Electrify Our Nation’s Call to Arms January 8, 2011-AMA Su
Axlin08 wrote:The guy's lack of interviews and association with GN'R gives him even more credibility in this hypothetical.
Perhaps, I'm just saying a large portion of those who follow him discovered him from GNR, apparently in GNR he did not 'fit in' with the rest of the band, and he went on to release solo efforts using contacts made from his time in GNR. Meanwhile choosing to leave the project severly fucked things up until they found ron, and even then lots of people (I suspect you are one too hehe) want him back. Now I think Axl overstated the case and I don't think buckets a bad guy, but I can see why Axl might think he got played a bit - especially if he was upset when he made the comment. I'm not saying he's 100% right about it, I'm just saying it's not a lie as such. It's a viewpoint.
thats my opinion as well
as for ron and richard "covering" amterial written by other guys...we all know thats not true...like monkey said sure the basic song structure was there but i'm pretty confident in saying that the parts that each guys plays on whatever track on CD was wholey of the individual's creation...a lick or riff that richard plays was created by richard to fit a particular song...ditto with Ron, a solo that you hear from his is his own solo that he created to fit within the boundaries of the song for which it was written
Re: Dj Ashba to Electrify Our Nation’s Call to Arms January 8, 2011-AMA Su
Like Axl said (surrounded by the current lineup) in that short Abu Dhabi video-interview: "We are Guns N' Roses!"
To me it's THAT simple! But hey! I'm an uncool "nutswinger", so what do I know
Of all the stuff you do say, that's probably the most honest, down-to-earth, believeable piece you've written.
I'm totally down with that. When Tommy released "One Man Mutiny", I was out there saying it was a Guns N' Roses song, just fronted by Tommy, Richard & Dizzy, all GN'R members.
Then I got all this feedback about how a GN'R song isn't a GN'R song unless it has an original member's (Axl) name on it.
So I became confused and convoluted by the whole thing. One minute, when they are performing live - the current band is Guns N' Roses. But if a song is recorded by the band, sans Axl - it's not Guns N' Roses.
Well it can't be both, because it becomes a mindfuck to wade though of differing opinions.
Bottom line is any recorded, performed or written material by any active member of GN'R at the time they were apart of the band IS a Guns N' Roses recording. As of 2011, Guns N' Roses is Axl Rose, DJ Ashba, Ron Thal, Richard Fortus, Tommy Stinson, Frank Ferrer, Dizzy Reed & Chris Pitman.
Re: Dj Ashba to Electrify Our Nation’s Call to Arms January 8, 2011-AMA Su
I get your point on the "One Man Mutiny" thing. But I'm not sure I see it the same way.
If Kirk Hammet decided to release a song for free with himself on guitar/vocals with Lars Ulrich and Rob Trojillo "sitting in" on it, is it then a Metallica song?
In the manner of its release to the public, imo, it wouldn't feel like a free Metallica song?
If "One Man Mutiny" was released on the next GNR-album, I guess I would feel different about it. Just like the songs from UYI which featured Izzy on lead vocals, it was released as a GNR song.
It's not so black and white... To me anyway!
Re: Dj Ashba to Electrify Our Nation’s Call to Arms January 8, 2011-AMA Su
I felt the key difference on "One Man Mutiny" was the fact that the Stones/Dylan-style of the song was in the key/spirit of GN'R.
That's why I felt it was really, in alot of ways, one of the truer songs to the original GN'R since the UYI albums, just fronted by Tommy.
The song did seem like something Izzy would've done back in the day.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Dj Ashba to Electrify Our Nation’s Call to Arms January 8, 2011-AMA Su
Bottom line is any recorded, performed or written material by any active member of GN'R at the time they were apart of the band IS a Guns N' Roses recording.
Not trying to be a dick but that would make Duffs "Beleive in Me" a GNR album and also technically Snakepit's "It's 5 O'Clock Somewhere".
Now these albums have GNR blood in them due to the high number of GNR personell on board...but they still arn't GNR albums.
Re: Dj Ashba to Electrify Our Nation’s Call to Arms January 8, 2011-AMA Su
Dude, a HIGH number of people claim that 5-O'Clock, Believe in Me & Ju Ju Hounds are GN'R albums.
I don't agree with them, but i've heard that said over and over for years by the diehards of the ex-members.
And other than Axl owning the brand-name, technically under that assumption, it don't make Chinese Democracy anymore of a GN'R album than their solo efforts.
