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Re: Dj Ashba to Electrify Our Nation’s Call to Arms January 8, 2011-AMA Su
Neemo wrote:but he did use the gnr name to futher his own career...obviously it got him recognition, his association w./ gnr increased people's awareness of him...tbh i wouldnt have teh slightest clue who he was if not for gnr
This is about Bucket right?
I'm a big fan now, but without GNR I wouldn't know him at all.
So I agree.
He did nothing to associate himself with GNR except be in the band. That's not using the GNR name to further himself. First of all, he doesn't do interviews and doesn't have an up to date website. Just because YOU discover somebody based on their band affiliation doesn't mean THEY had anything to do with it.
Re: Dj Ashba to Electrify Our Nation’s Call to Arms January 8, 2011-AMA Su
rite..
The bucket was n0t involved. And his hand did the interview w loader...
The excotic stories of a chicken coop in the studio and the fresh smell of shit were in no ways publicity stunts.
Being involved with GnR in no way extended his fanbase or influenced his playing.
Re: Dj Ashba to Electrify Our Nation’s Call to Arms January 8, 2011-AMA Su
Poor quality fan made vid mentions slash. Hopefully Dj had it proshot
Bret Michaels AMA Supercross [30 second spot]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbhKWyxOt7o
Monster Energy Supercross Girls 2011
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8UvTK9tunQ
Monster Energy Supercross - 2011 Rider Talk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtO-K55S-tU
Anaheim1 2011 - Miss Supercross Intro
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjJ3SVIKclc
Supercross 2011 #1 Anaheim - opening ceremony from HGTH, still poor sound but LOUD ! Madgas mix cant see Dj 
htgth Jarmo | HTGTH.com
Video of @DjASHBA performing the National Anthem in Anaheim, CA will be posted by him soon.
1 hour ago
Re: Dj Ashba to Electrify Our Nation’s Call to Arms January 8, 2011-AMA Su
faldor wrote:You can feel that way, but can you blame DJ, Ron, or any of the other guys for using the GNR name and their place in the band to their advantage? I don't think you can. They ARE entitled.
How are they entitled? DJ, Ron, Richard, & Frank didn't write anything as members of Guns N' Roses. They haven't contributed anything to the catalog in terms of material. The last three simply "covered" other people's already recorded and written material, and suddenly they're entitled as members of GN'R?
No. All of them, and especially DJ, are nothing but members of Axl Rose's solo band for now. Believe me, as soon as they cut an album and write some stuff for the band GN'R - they're totally members and entitled in my eyes.
No offense, but YOU don't exactly set the standard as to when someone can be considered a part of GNR or not. Or whether they're entitled to promote themselves as the lead guitarist in the band. The bottom line is, DJ IS the lead guitarist in Guns N' Roses, as of today. Just because YOU don't think he deserves to whore himself out as such, doesn't really matter.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Dj Ashba to Electrify Our Nation’s Call to Arms January 8, 2011-AMA Su
I respect bucket deeply as a player, so I'm not having a go at him.
But that said, it's obvious he'd get a personal publicity boost from being in GNR, he may or may not have wanted it, but it's the natural side effect of joining GNR - especially back then when the rock world was waiting to see what Axl did post-slash.
Who here as been in a relationship-ending, or had a friendship go south, and maybe let their anger/sorrow over that cause them to say something from an emoitional biased perspective. I think that's whats usually happened to Axl in the intances when he's accused of lying.
As Obiwan would say: "What I told you is true, from a certain point of view". Axl was obviously upset about bucket leaving, and about him refusing to come back and maybe that colours his viewpoint a little. As with a lot of GNR things I suspect there's a degree of truth to EVERY side of the story.
For example Axl could choose to paint Slash as a junkie that bullshits the media and doesn't want to branch out musicly, slash could choose to paint axl as a control freak with emotional issues who chases modern trends too late.
Neither of those is truth, but neither of them is an entire lie either. We all have complex characters that are built up of flaws and strengths, good and bad....and what you see in another person at any moment is just part of everything that's there to see. It's all perspective.
So i'm guessing Axl felt that way at that moment. We know bucket got a lot of notoriety from being in GNR. Many people had never heard of him prior to that. Might be wrong about this, but I think we previously established that bucket made professional connections from his time in GNR too. Like people that play or co-wrote on Notthingham Lace or Soothsayer or something like that were also people involved in Chinese Democracy and he may have met them during downtime. We also know from numerous reports that bucket did not blend in with the band and there was a lot of tension between band members.
Now none of that is necessarily bucket's fault, but I can see how if you are having an angry day, you might feel resentment about the way it panned out.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Dj Ashba to Electrify Our Nation’s Call to Arms January 8, 2011-AMA Su
How are they entitled? DJ, Ron, Richard, & Frank didn't write anything as members of Guns N' Roses. They haven't contributed anything to the catalog in terms of material.
I disagree with that one.
Frank probably didn't write anything but aside from a few notable exceptions, it's unsual for a drummer to be the songwriter in a band - doesn't make them not in the band. He's played a ton of shows as the GNR drummer now...that makes him the GNR drummer, plus he also plays on CD
Ashba, i'll grant is yet to record or write with the band, but he's doing a great job bridiging the gap between slash and robin - and seems to have been what was musically missing from the last version of the band.
Richard - well he plays on CD too, and I always credit him with making the maddy parts cooler than paul played them. Not the solo - the bridge parts...much cooler. He's played every GNR gig since 2002 or whatever it was...hard to say he isn't GNR.
Then there's Ron, he plays some bad ass solos on Chinese dude...the album has his flavour to it, even if he's playing over progressions written by others. Just as with the old band - slash might play a solo in an Izzy song - and although it's not a slash song it now reeks of slash - likewise while some of these tracks were written by paul or bucket or whomeever - you can definately feel ron's style on the track now. People dismiss his contributions but it's him that pushed things to the finished point I think. He also works on a personal level with guys in the band the way bucket didn't it would seem...and he's done a lot to modernise GNR's fan interaction (twitter etc).
So it's my personal viewpoint that all these guys are very GNR.
Now if someone was to define GNR as only the old band, as a guy like Buzz might (not to put words in his mouth) then I can at least understand that - as the old band and the new band are different animals musically - and while I love both - i can understand the texture of the modern band with it's 9 players or whatever is so much different to the early club rock raw 5 piece or whatever and so I understand the logic of being annoyed about the name issue even though it doesn't effect me personally....but as far as any of the new line ups go....if ANY of the new bands are GNR then these guys are.
Re: Dj Ashba to Electrify Our Nation’s Call to Arms January 8, 2011-AMA Su
http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbe … nt=Twitter
GUNS N' ROSES Guitarist D.J. ASHBA Performs National Anthem At 'AMA Supercross' (Video) - Jan. 9, 2011
GUNS N' ROSES guitarist D.J. Ashba performed the national anthem at yesterday's (Saturday, January 8) Monster Energy AMA Supercross (an FIM World Championship) at Angel Stadium of Anaheim.
Saturday's Monster Energy AMA Supercross was one of the most anticipated events in extreme sports and showcased a talented group of riders all vying for championship spots, including numerous athletes from Monster Energy's own dominating stable of Supercross riders. The event aired live on Speed from Anaheim, California.
Although it took more than a decade — 13 years, to be exact — for GUNS N' ROSES to release its "Chinese Democracy" album in 2008, the follow-up to that effort may come sooner than anyone thinks. Ashba said in an interview at last November's launch party for the "Call Of Duty: Black Ops" video game that the band is "talking about that right now. We've been throwing around a bunch of ideas and it should be good, man. We've got a lot of good stuff on the plate coming out. It won't take as long, I promise." Ashba added, "I'm excited to get this next one rolling . . . Axl [Rose, lead singer] has a lot of good shit up his sleeve, so I'm really excited about it."
In addition to Ashba and sole original member Rose, the current lineup of GUNS N' ROSES includes guitarists Ron Thal and Richard Fortus, bassist Tommy Stinson, keyboardists Dizzy Reed and Chris Pitman and drummer Frank Ferrer.
Ashba joined GUNS N' ROSES in March 2009 following the departure of Robin Finck. Rose stated about D.J.'s addition to the group at the time, "D.J.'s a gifted, energetic guitarist that GUNS N' ROSES is proud to have on board!! We're very excited to have the opportunity to work together. GUNS' radar has silently been aware of D.J.'s presence for quite some time. He brings a fresh approach to our particular brand of mayhem expanding the tapestry of GUNS N' ROSES live. Once D.J.'s name was in the hat, the hat disappeared!!"
DJ Ashba National Anthem Jan 8th 2010 Monster (snippit pro closeup)
[youtube]GtxqORrmwDc&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
Supercross 2011 #1 Anaheim - opening ceremony (full version)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl … bsYHhe6t_Q
Re: Dj Ashba to Electrify Our Nation’s Call to Arms January 8, 2011-AMA Su
I respect bucket deeply as a player, so I'm not having a go at him.
But that said, it's obvious he'd get a personal publicity boost from being in GNR, he may or may not have wanted it, but it's the natural side effect of joining GNR - especially back then when the rock world was waiting to see what Axl did post-slash.
Who here as been in a relationship-ending, or had a friendship go south, and maybe let their anger/sorrow over that cause them to say something from an emoitional biased perspective. I think that's whats usually happened to Axl in the intances when he's accused of lying.
As Obiwan would say: "What I told you is true, from a certain point of view". Axl was obviously upset about bucket leaving, and about him refusing to come back and maybe that colours his viewpoint a little. As with a lot of GNR things I suspect there's a degree of truth to EVERY side of the story.
For example Axl could choose to paint Slash as a junkie that bullshits the media and doesn't want to branch out musicly, slash could choose to paint axl as a control freak with emotional issues who chases modern trends too late.
Neither of those is truth, but neither of them is an entire lie either. We all have complex characters that are built up of flaws and strengths, good and bad....and what you see in another person at any moment is just part of everything that's there to see. It's all perspective.
So i'm guessing Axl felt that way at that moment. We know bucket got a lot of notoriety from being in GNR. Many people had never heard of him prior to that. Might be wrong about this, but I think we previously established that bucket made professional connections from his time in GNR too. Like people that play or co-wrote on Notthingham Lace or Soothsayer or something like that were also people involved in Chinese Democracy and he may have met them during downtime. We also know from numerous reports that bucket did not blend in with the band and there was a lot of tension between band members.
Now none of that is necessarily bucket's fault, but I can see how if you are having an angry day, you might feel resentment about the way it panned out.
See
below
DCK wrote:Neemo wrote:but he did use the gnr name to futher his own career...obviously it got him recognition, his association w./ gnr increased people's awareness of him...tbh i wouldnt have teh slightest clue who he was if not for gnr
This is about Bucket right?
I'm a big fan now, but without GNR I wouldn't know him at all.
So I agree.
He did nothing to associate himself with GNR except be in the band. That's not using the GNR name to further himself. First of all, he doesn't do interviews and doesn't have an up to date website. Just because YOU discover somebody based on their band affiliation doesn't mean THEY had anything to do with it.
Great post, and pretty much sums it all up. All i'm hearing is "I wouldn't know Bucket if it weren't for GN'R".
Well just because you found the glory of Bucket through GN'R, doesn't mean at all he used GN'R to promote himself. He simply showed up and played his tunes. Even in his guitar solo spots in GN'R performances, Bucket conducted himself in a solo manner.
The guy's lack of interviews and association with GN'R gives him even more credibility in this hypothetical.
I actually discovered Bucket because of his collaborations with "Chop Top" actor Bill Moseley from The Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2, a few years before Bucket joined GN'R.
Axlin08 wrote:faldor wrote:You can feel that way, but can you blame DJ, Ron, or any of the other guys for using the GNR name and their place in the band to their advantage? I don't think you can. They ARE entitled.
How are they entitled? DJ, Ron, Richard, & Frank didn't write anything as members of Guns N' Roses. They haven't contributed anything to the catalog in terms of material. The last three simply "covered" other people's already recorded and written material, and suddenly they're entitled as members of GN'R?
No. All of them, and especially DJ, are nothing but members of Axl Rose's solo band for now. Believe me, as soon as they cut an album and write some stuff for the band GN'R - they're totally members and entitled in my eyes.
No offense, but YOU don't exactly set the standard as to when someone can be considered a part of GNR or not. Or whether they're entitled to promote themselves as the lead guitarist in the band. The bottom line is, DJ IS the lead guitarist in Guns N' Roses, as of today. Just because YOU don't think he deserves to whore himself out as such, doesn't really matter.
You're right, but for me - sure it matters. For me, only MY opinion matters, unless we're dealing with more serious issues. If they aren't GN'R officially to me, then that's just the way it is. When they get some writing credits, it'll change.
As fans we're all entitled to acknowledge portions of performance that we choose. For some GN'R ended in 1993, others in 1991, others in 1990, some it continues. We do the same thing for TV seasons of our favorite shows and sequels to our favorite movies.
Music is no different.
Axlin08 wrote:How are they entitled? DJ, Ron, Richard, & Frank didn't write anything as members of Guns N' Roses. They haven't contributed anything to the catalog in terms of material.
I disagree with that one.
Frank probably didn't write anything but aside from a few notable exceptions, it's unsual for a drummer to be the songwriter in a band - doesn't make them not in the band. He's played a ton of shows as the GNR drummer now...that makes him the GNR drummer, plus he also plays on CD
Actually if anything using the drummer analogy proves my point. Since the beginning of GN'R, Axl has used drummers like kleenex. The irony is other than Brain, Josh Freese is the only other GN'R drummer to have co-written a GN'R song, yet never performed live with them.
They have always been treated like they are "replaceable". I thought at least Brain would be spared, but even he was forced out when he had other obligations in life. Axl has shown NO loyalty to ANY drummer he's ever worked with. It amazes me that any drummer still would sign up to work for the guy.
Ashba, i'll grant is yet to record or write with the band, but he's doing a great job bridiging the gap between slash and robin - and seems to have been what was musically missing from the last version of the band.
We're assuming he bridges the gap. Do I think GN'R have a better opportunity to cut more socially relevant and possibly better songs in the mainstream-rock charts WITH DJ. Yes. But it's a guess. If Axl doesn't release music than the acquistion of DJ is totally pointless. He's simply a musician in a tribute show.
Richard - well he plays on CD too, and I always credit him with making the maddy parts cooler than paul played them. Not the solo - the bridge parts...much cooler. He's played every GNR gig since 2002 or whatever it was...hard to say he isn't GNR.
He hasn't wrote anything. He's simply covered Tobias' pre-written, pre-recorded material. And if CD is any indication of the vault, not much should change if Axl chooses to release future material.
Right now, Richard is nothing more than DJ + 9 years.
Then there's Ron, he plays some bad ass solos on Chinese dude...
The only "bad ass" solo I remember him playing was a cover of a solo written by Bucket. Wow - i'm so impressed.
The only song I remember having his stamp all over it was the remix of Catcher In The Rye, which blew in comparison to the amazing Brian May '99 demo.
If anything, Ron's solos have been taken to a new level, because in 2010, Ron has finally done his own thing live. If only that could've happened on CD. I heard Ron's twist on the Nightrain solo during the Budapest show or some other show, and I was drooling. It rivaled Bucket's in 2002.
But until I see 'Thal' on a record, he's simply DJ + 4 years.
the album has his flavour to it, even if he's playing over progressions written by others.
If anything his contributions are limited to redoing the rhythm parts. But it's amazing... for guy who's "all over" CD, he wasn't given any writing credits on the album as a co-writer with the rest, which I don't understand. I would've thought he'd of least gotten his name thrown on Catcher.
Just as with the old band - slash might play a solo in an Izzy song - and although it's not a slash song it now reeks of slash
Then it's an Izzy song.
- likewise while some of these tracks were written by paul or bucket or whomeever - you can definately feel ron's style on the track now. People dismiss his contributions but it's him that pushed things to the finished point I think.
Oh please, CD was finished in 1999. It was finished again in 2001. It was finished AGAIN in 2006. And finished again in 2008. And even I right now have a totally remixed version sitting on my hard drive, that I called "Summer of 2010 remix". Which is ANOTHER version.
Ron didn't bring anything to the finished point. Ron simply went in and erased previous members contributions to the album, so Axl could get his cookies about forgetting previous members.
He also works on a personal level with guys in the band the way bucket didn't it would seem...and he's done a lot to modernise GNR's fan interaction (twitter etc).
Agreed, but that doesn't make him more of a GN'R member, simply because he uses Twitter good.
So it's my personal viewpoint that all these guys are very GNR.
Oh they are all 'very GNR'. But ARE THEY GN'R is the question.
Now if someone was to define GNR as only the old band, as a guy like Buzz might (not to put words in his mouth) then I can at least understand that - as the old band and the new band are different animals musically - and while I love both - i can understand the texture of the modern band with it's 9 players or whatever is so much different to the early club rock raw 5 piece or whatever and so I understand the logic of being annoyed about the name issue even though it doesn't effect me personally....but as far as any of the new line ups go....if ANY of the new bands are GNR then these guys are.
How do you figure that? And how is it fair? "If any of the new band are members are GN'R, then they all are", or however it goes. How does that work? So DJ Ashba is just as much a member of GN'R as Tommy Stinson, Dizzy Reed or Chris Pitman? But if I say DJ Ashba isn't a member, then neither are the others.
That's bullcrap. Reed, Stinson & Pitman all have writing credits under the name Guns N' Roses. They are members no different than Slash in my mind. But in comparison to Ashba & Thal, there's no contest. Ashba & Thal aren't members - yet. They just aren't.
And if future GN'R releases continues to be them covering other artists material, then they will continue to not be GN'R members. That's what they call "session musician". And there's nothing wrong with that. But members of the band Guns N' Roses - no.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Dj Ashba to Electrify Our Nation’s Call to Arms January 8, 2011-AMA Su
The guy's lack of interviews and association with GN'R gives him even more credibility in this hypothetical.
Perhaps, I'm just saying a large portion of those who follow him discovered him from GNR, apparently in GNR he did not 'fit in' with the rest of the band, and he went on to release solo efforts using contacts made from his time in GNR. Meanwhile choosing to leave the project severly fucked things up until they found ron, and even then lots of people (I suspect you are one too hehe) want him back. Now I think Axl overstated the case and I don't think buckets a bad guy, but I can see why Axl might think he got played a bit - especially if he was upset when he made the comment. I'm not saying he's 100% right about it, I'm just saying it's not a lie as such. It's a viewpoint.
Actually if anything using the drummer analogy proves my point. Since the beginning of GN'R, Axl has used drummers like kleenex.
Yeah but I would still consider those guys to be GNR. I dunno if Matt has any writing credits but playing on UYI and however many damn shows that tour was makes him GNR.
You see to be saying only the songwriters are GNR and that because Ashba doesn't have a song credit he's not GNR.
He hasn't wrote anything. He's simply covered Tobias' pre-written, pre-recorded material.
Yeah but he does it with style, I think what he added to Maddy is way better. But that aside, what about Gilby then - he never wrote anything did he - but surely playing that many shows makes him GNR? And then how many has richard done? In what year does he become equal with Gilby?
The only "bad ass" solo I remember him playing was a cover of a solo written by Bucket. Wow - i'm so impressed.
Which one is a cover of a bucket solo? Ron plays on Shacklers and Rhiad both of which have bucket credits, but that doesnt mean he didn't create a fresh solo to go over the rhythm parts.
He also really altered the vibe of the title track with the new rhythm part, and yeah there's the changes to catcher love them or hate them...his changes to the album are quite visable I think.
But it's amazing... for guy who's "all over" CD, he wasn't given any writing credits on the album as a co-writer with the rest, which I don't understand.
That's something I have a philosophical objection to I must say. Writing credits tend to go to people who write the lyrics and melody but often the solo makes the song. What is estranged without those slash solos, and what is stairway to heaven without the lead guitar lines. So i'll grant you that he wasn't given a writing credit but he still makes a strong artistist stamp on the solos and stuff I think. You can tell it's him.
Just as with the old band - slash might play a solo in an Izzy song - and although it's not a slash song it now reeks of slash
Then it's an Izzy song.
Well legally yeah...but see I don't agree artistly. Any of the old songs where slash is not a writer wouldn't be half as GNR like as they are without the solos he plays. Like DTJ or Breakdown or 14 Years...he may not be the songwriter but he's giving them their flavour.
Oh please, CD was finished in 1999.
Well it's opinion but I think the 1999 demos of TWAT and IRS blow compared to the final versions.
Sure the basic concepts were around in 1999 - but they were down a few notches from the finished scale. Should it have taken 10 more years - maybe not - but there's no way that 1999 album was release worthy as a GNR record. Chinese Democracy in it's final form, while pretty different from classic GNR, was good enough IMO to be called a GNR record...but the first versions of those songs, pre buckethead, pre-ron and all the other changes...no way. Draft form at best.
That's bullcrap. Reed, Stinson & Pitman all have writing credits under the name Guns N' Roses. They are members no different than Slash in my mind. But in comparison to Ashba & Thal, there's no contest. Ashba & Thal aren't members - yet. They just aren't.
Hmmm..seems I disagree again 
I sort of see two viewpoints:
Viewpoint 1:
anyone with a writing credit under the name GNR can call themselves GNR (or Ex-GNR in the case of former members).
But I also think people that didn't write but played a significant contribution to the band over time are as well. For example Gilby - he plays on TSI and he did a ton of UYI tour shows - that makes him GNR as good as anyone else to me.... And richard - he's on CD and he's played a ton of live gigs with GNR.
Viewpoint 2:
The only 'real' GNR was the afd band, and anyone who isn't in that band is a replacment - so guys like Gilby and richard and stuff are not really GNR.
I tend to subscribe to viewpoint 1 as I like both bands, but I can understand that because there is such mythology surrounding the old band and it's classic rock nature - that some people would follow theory number 2.
But I can't really except your theory which seems to be that only people with songwriting credits count...unless i'm confussed about what you mean.
