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Re: Wiki Leaks
This is Amazing stuff
This is an article by a good friend of mine. Ciaran Healy. You've might not have heard of him, please take a moment to have a look, get involved and help any way you can.
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Ok, let's just put the philosophy on hold for a minute. Something big is happening.
Julian Assange is the founder and editor in chief of Wikileaks. This is a picture of Julian Assange:
Wikileaks is basically a kind of anonymous drop box. If you see something corrupt happening, you can post documents here anonymously.
WikiLeaks has been involved in the publication of material documenting extrajudicial killings in Kenya.
A report of toxic waste dumping on the African coast by the British company Transfigura that killed hundreds of people (a report they had successfully blocked publication of in the British media).
Church of Scientology manuals detailing their 'advanced techniques' of 'personal growth'.
Guantanamo Bay procedures detailing savage and inhumane treatment.
And the July 12, 2007 Baghdad airstrike video, where American helicopter pilots laughed and crowed as they murdered a group of innocent people - including two Reuters journalists - because they had decided that the cameras the journalists carried were rocket launchers.
Wikileaks is an incredible force for transparency and good.
Assange has been accused of rape.
These accusations surfaced one week after a previous release of 90 000 documents on Wikileaks which demonstrated multiple instances of the military coverups of murders and torture in Iraq and Afghanistan.
He has no criminal history of violence of which anyone is aware, or indeed any criminal history at all, apart from some childhood charges for computer hacking in his homeland of Australia, of which the Australian prosecutors themselves said "there is just no evidence that there was anything other than sort of intelligent inquisitiveness and the pleasure of being able to—what's the expression—surf through these various computers"
This is a quote from Britain's Guardian newspaper in an article that is, frankly, chillingly sensationalist and as clear as fucking mud:
One of two women involved [involved as in she's one of Assange's alleged rape victims] told Aftonbladet in an interview published today that she had never intended Assange to be charged with rape. She was quoted as saying: "It is quite wrong that we were afraid of him. He is not violent and I do not feel threatened by him."
Now get this.
Last week Wikileaks released 250 000 diplomatic cables from the US State Department's diplomatic office.
A quarter of a million.
Among the delightful pieces of information was proof that Britain has conspired to hide illegal weapons, banned by international law, on it's own soil for America.
I'll say that again.
Britain's politicians agreed to hide weapons banned by international law on British soil.
In the wake of the release of these documents, Interpol - the international police agency, released a Red Notice for Assange's arrest.
This is the highest possible level of alert that Interpol can put out on a person.
Let's just read that quote from one of his 'victims' again:
One of two women involved [involved as in she's one of Assange's alleged rape victims] told Aftonbladet in an interview published today that she had never intended Assange to be charged with rape. She was quoted as saying: "It is quite wrong that we were afraid of him. He is not violent and I do not feel threatened by him."
This is the crime for which INTERPOL has released a RED NOTICE on this man.
An Interpol Red Notice, just after he releases 250 000 documents exposing illegal activity in the US and UK governments.
Hmm.
This is an absolute disgrace.
But it gets worse. All of a sudden, major companies that all of us use start joining in the hunt for Assange.
First - Paypal cuts donations to Wikileaks.
Who the fuck are Paypal? Who do they think they are? So if someone goes up against the government, they can just pull the funding plug?
Is this democracy?
Then Amazon removes Wikileaks as a paying customer from it's servers, saying that it doesn't work with people "engaged in illegal activities."
And yet it still lists Hillary Clinton's autobiography after the state department approved the hiding of illegal cluster munitions on British soil? With British complicity? No.
This has NOTHING to do with illegal activity. This is businesses doing favours for politicians.
Why?
WHY?
Because they are corrupt. Corruption Wikileaks has the courage to expose.
Is this democracy?
IS THIS DEMOCRACY?
No.
No it's not.
It gets better.
Senior politicians, such as America's Sarah Palin and Canada's Tom Flanagan have openly called for his murder.
They have been met by howls of support from their adoring admirers in the general public, and the right wing media who feed millions of people people lies they greedily swallow down.
Saturday Night Live, America's flagship comedy show, has decided to make a big joke about how 'sleazy' Assange is.
Everyone's jumping on board.
I've started a facebook group - I started it yesterday, we've already got over 700 members. Please help us publicise it.
It is called the Julian Assange Couchsurf 2010.
This is the link.
It's anyone who'll lend a couch to a man on the run, being hounded by the authorities over spurious accusations, hounded for an act of incredible courage and principle.
This is a stunning and sickening assault by the political establishment on a man of incredible courage. It is imperative that people stand together and demonstrate that not all of us are so easily used by a system that cares only about the degree to which we consume.
I was wondering how to end this piece, I wanted to make it good. But I can't think of anything better to say than to share with you the words of Julian Assange. When asked why he does what he does, this is how he responded:
"The whole universe or the structure that perceives it is a worthy opponent, but try as I may I can not escape the sound of suffering.
Perhaps as an old man I will take great comfort in pottering around in a lab and gently talking to students in the summer evening and will accept suffering with insouciance.
But not now; men in their prime, if they have convictions are tasked to act on them."
JOIN THE GROUP. SHARE THIS ARTICLE WITH EVERYONE YOU KNOW.
ACT.
-By Ciaran Healy
Yeah crazy right??? Here's a link to the facebook group
Julian Assange Couchsurf 2010
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=gro … 55913&ap=1
- Communist China
- Rep: 130
Re: Wiki Leaks
No offense to your friend but this is a pretty poor article. 'IS THIS DEMOCRACY'? Really? What does democracy have to do with spying and publishing classified foreign policy information?
Who would ever think that principles of transparency and honesty we espouse in laws like FOIA would ever apply to interactions between diplomats and foreign leaders. Of course foreign policy requires a degree of secrecy, and nothing the USA does is unique in that realm.
I won't call for Assange's death or anything like that but if the US could get their hands on him, by all means they should prosecute him - provided they can prove he violated... I'm not sure, but I guess the relevant law would be the Espionage act from WWI.
Private companies have the right to choose for themselves if they want to be involved with WikiLeaks. If they choose to cut those ties, that's their choice. Why should I care?
Re: Wiki Leaks
No offense to your friend but this is a pretty poor article
No you're just attacking this because it's not your "belief".
If anything this man is helping your country by weeding out the corruption.
Is that what you want to live in a country built on corruption?
A country where this
is brushed under the carpet.
Take a good long look at that Video and ask yourself.
Are you an honest man? Can you call yourself an honest man if you do NOT support the truth??
No. No you cannot.
'IS THIS DEMOCRACY'? Really? What does democracy have to do with spying and publishing classified foreign policy information?
He's referring to pay pal and amazon pulling out on Julian but not on other criminals. THAT is not democracy. Why are you just twisting all of this to support your BS claims?
More of your corrupt dishonesty
Who would ever think that principles of transparency and honesty we espouse in laws like FOIA would ever apply to interactions between diplomats and foreign leaders. Of course foreign policy requires a degree of secrecy, and nothing the USA does is unique in that realm.
Don't talk shit. The laws may not be Unique the crimes they covdr up DEFINITELY are. But it's okay now. It's out this has begun and you can not stop this. The inevitable crawl of the truth to your doorstep.
You call yourself a patriot and make statements like this? You should be rallied around this man, who is trying to right the wrongs of your leaders to give you and your countrymen a better life.
You should be ashamed.
I'm not even reading the rest of your useless weak post, fuelling lies with apathy and a clinging to your won identity.
I look forward to your inevitable butt hurt karma swipe.
You'd do well to man up and take a look at the facts
- Communist China
- Rep: 130
Re: Wiki Leaks
No offense to your friend but this is a pretty poor article
No you're just attacking this because it's not your "belief".
First: I don't have beliefs, I just have ideas.
Second: While I disagree with his ultimate bias, and admittedly that's what I focused my post on, it is a poor article. The questions that are then immediately answered, the occasional all caps usage, the expletive use, all contribute to it being a poor read.
If anything this man is helping your country by weeding out the corruption.
The war information I was partially in favor of leaking since a lot of abuses were committed and revealed, but the exposure of foreign policy documents like what just happened exposes next to zero corruption. Secrecy and corruption are different things, and I think you're a lot better off with the US's style of 'corruption' in dealing with foreign leaders than a lot of other powerful countries. Nothing from these recent leaks reveals anything surprising.
Is that what you want to live in a country built on corruption?
A country where this
is brushed under the carpet.Take a good long look at that Video and ask yourself.
Are you an honest man? Can you call yourself an honest man if you do NOT support the truth??
No. No you cannot.
'IS THIS DEMOCRACY'? Really? What does democracy have to do with spying and publishing classified foreign policy information?
He's referring to pay pal and amazon pulling out on Julian but not on other criminals. THAT is not democracy. Why are you just twisting all of this to support your BS claims?
More of your corrupt dishonesty
The paypal and amazon thing is obviously not democracy, because private organizations choosing to cut ties with certain groups for image/PR reasons has nothing to do with government, and democracy is by definition a system of government. The principles of majority-rule, one-man one-vote style policy process have no connection to whatever entities of the private sector are choosing to do. I'm not twisting. Twisting is whatever you have to do to make a company decision by Amazon to stop associating with Wikileaks into an attack against democracy.
And please - tell me what my 'BS claims' are. What am I suggesting that is so preposterous and BS? Let alone dishonest.
Who would ever think that principles of transparency and honesty we espouse in laws like FOIA would ever apply to interactions between diplomats and foreign leaders. Of course foreign policy requires a degree of secrecy, and nothing the USA does is unique in that realm.
Don't talk shit. The laws may not be Unique the crimes they covdr up DEFINITELY are. But it's okay now. It's out this has begun and you can not stop this. The inevitable crawl of the truth to your doorstep.
You call yourself a patriot and make statements like this? You should be rallied around this man, who is trying to right the wrongs of your leaders to give you and your countrymen a better life.
You should be ashamed.
I'm not even reading the rest of your useless weak post, fuelling lies with apathy and a clinging to your won identity.
I look forward to your inevitable butt hurt karma swipe.
You'd do well to man up and take a look at the facts
First of all - I never called myself a patriot. How can you make such harsh claims about me when you have to assume so much to even set them up? Much like your philosophy rants you seem unable to open up for even a second to an idea that doesn't immediately attach itself to you. You may be a master of the kiddie pool but the world isn't 3 feet deep.
Secondly, the Wikileaks leaks will do nothing to right the wrongs of our leaders, which are equally often errors by the way. They're fallible too, although considering that you have already elevated yourself to near God-like status I can't say I'm surprised that you assume perfect execution of intention on the part of the faceless 'leaders' you're blasting.
And thirdly, what crimes did the recent leaks uncover?
Re: Wiki Leaks
The war information I was partially in favor of leaking since a lot of abuses were committed and revealed, but the exposure of foreign policy documents like what just happened exposes next to zero corruption. Secrecy and corruption are different things, and I think you're a lot better off with the US's style of 'corruption' in dealing with foreign leaders than a lot of other powerful countries. Nothing from these recent leaks reveals anything surprising.
It revealed that America was storing illegal weaponry in britan with brittish consent.
The paypal and amazon thing is obviously not democracy, because private organizations choosing to cut ties with certain groups for image/PR reasons has nothing to do with government, and democracy is by definition a system of government.
Thats not what you implied in your first post. Good to see you being honest though.
The principles of majority-rule, one-man one-vote style policy process have no connection to whatever entities of the private sector are choosing to do. I'm not twisting. Twisting is whatever you have to do to make a company decision by Amazon to stop associating with Wikileaks into an attack against democracy.
Wow now your just taking huge risks hoping I'm not going to notice the mistakes in your logic.
So I'm twisiting this? I really do hope you misunderstood the initial post because if not, you are stooping lower than I would have thought possible.
Try take yourself out of the argument and look at the facts.
And please - tell me what my 'BS claims' are. What am I suggesting that is so preposterous and BS? Let alone dishonest.
That a man doing his utmost to improve the world should be tried for his "crimes". Misconstruing tracts of what I have writeen replacing it with a figment of your imagination and rhen attempting to disprove said figment. Thats BS.
First of all - I never called myself a patriot. How can you make such harsh claims about me when you have to assume so much to even set them up?
Much like your philosophy rants you seem unable to open up for even a second to an idea that doesn't immediately attach itself to you. You may be a master of the kiddie pool but the world isn't 3 feet deep.
Right okay. My philosophical method which has Liberated 6 peole in 4 months is childsplay... Right That's whats going on here. You are the glorius bringer of excellence, and the lives I have transformed mean nothing....
Okay...
And, if you'd taken a look at said philosophy, you'd understand Liberation from self does not mean an inability to wield mental concepts, quite the opposite.
Secondly, the Wikileaks leaks will do nothing to right the wrongs of our leaders, which are equally often errors by the way.
They're fallible too, although considering that you have already elevated yourself to near God-like status I can't say I'm surprised that you assume perfect execution of intention on the part of the faceless 'leaders' you're blasting.
Right dude. That shit's not going to fly. You black mouth my work again with your bullshit pseudo religious cocklology and this conversation is over. A man as weak as you without the backbone to even look into it, has no right to try sully the reputation of "me" or the people I have helped.
God-like status huh? Are you fucking insane? Drop the shit and engage the argument at hand . You want to talk bullshit like that about what I do, come talk to me on the arena and I'll tear you're little head off.
You give me an apology for this crap here and now in your next post and we continue to talk or you come to the arena and we debate my methodology there.
Stand up and show some back-bone here.
I don't argue with little girls or weak moral cowards. Make your choice.
And thirdly, what crimes did the recent leaks uncover?
illegal us weapons in Britain, covered this 3 times now
- Communist China
- Rep: 130
Re: Wiki Leaks
Ok, then, here we go again.
The implication with regards to the democracy concept in my first post was simply that punishing spying is not anti-democracy. Indeed, democracy and freedom are different, and at best you could call Assange's actions a liberation of information (not knowledge), so prosecuting him under any US laws he's broken certainly wouldn't infringe on the concept of democracy if he would get him extradited here. Most people in the country probably want him dead, you'd have an easier time making an argument that killing him would enforce democracy.
Please, tell me what's incorrect about what I'm saying. I'm 'taking huge risks hoping you won't notice flaws in logic'? Again you assume my intent, much like your assumption of our leaders' intent, is to distort and pervert, leaving no possibility in your mind of it being an honest mistake. Why is the alleged enlightened so withholding of his wisdom? Go ahead, I insist. Correct me.
As for your Liberating 6 minds in 4 months - beyond applauding your 19th century style use of capitalization for Important Concepts, I really have nothing to say. I don't have a definition for mental liberation so I can't assess what you're saying, and indeed it has no relevance on the wikileaks manner. Again you're pulling us away from wikileaks and into your ego and dislike for me (I'll post your rebuttal here to save you time: 'You're projecting - you're pulling us into your ego and your dislike of me, not the other way around. I recognize that there is no self, am Enlightened, and therefore have no ego.')
The release of hundreds of thousands of classified foreign policy cables and you come up with exactly ONE crime perpetrated by the US, with full consent of the other country it involves. Big deal.
Re: Wiki Leaks
Ummm.... no offence dude but this:
Right okay. My philosophical method which has Liberated 6 peole in 4 months is childsplay... Right That's whats going on here. You are the glorius bringer of excellence, and the lives I have transformed mean nothing....
Really comes off as self righteous, self glorifying, self absorbed and to be honest seems to have a huge Messiah complex attatched to it. I honestly felt like stopping righ there.
This is interesting stuff for sure, though I'm not getting into your guys "respectful" debate but if you want people to take YOU seriously, not so much the issues you're talking about but YOU(because nobody is listening to anything if they don't take you serioulsy) then you might wanna tone it down a bit. Just saying.
Re: Wiki Leaks
Ummm.... no offence dude but this:
stepvhen wrote:Right okay. My philosophical method which has Liberated 6 peole in 4 months is childsplay... Right That's whats going on here. You are the glorius bringer of excellence, and the lives I have transformed mean nothing....
Really comes off as self righteous, self glorifying, self absorbed and to be honest seems to have a huge Messiah complex attatched to it. I honestly felt like stopping righ there.
This is interesting stuff for sure, though I'm not getting into your guys "respectful" debate but if you want people to take YOU seriously, not so much the issues you're talking about but YOU(because nobody is listening to anything if they don't take you serioulsy) then you might wanna tone it down a bit. Just saying.
I honestly don't know how to relate anymore. I probably come across like a psycho. I'm drifting further and further away everyday and when I try to return to my personality I don't know how to use it like I used to. I probably come across like a army general or something. Even now. I' got zero intolerance for manipulation and what I'd call cowardice too, when real people are really dying. Doesn't help I guess.
The implication with regards to the democracy concept in my first post was simply that punishing spying is not anti-democracy. Indeed, democracy and freedom are different, and at best you could call Assange's actions a liberation of information (not knowledge), so prosecuting him under any US laws he's broken certainly wouldn't infringe on the concept of democracy if he would get him extradited here. Most people in the country probably want him dead, you'd have an easier time making an argument that killing him would enforce democracy.
Well no. Most people in America don't want him dead, quite the opposite. He's the fore runner for times man of the year, light years ahead of the likes of Glenn Beck.
Prosecuting him over a rape the victim says he did not commit would be a gross denial of Democracy. Don't just assume the article deals with American law.
Please, tell me what's incorrect about what I'm saying. I'm 'taking huge risks hoping you won't notice flaws in logic'? Again you assume my intent, much like your assumption of our leaders' intent, is to distort and pervert, leaving no possibility in your mind of it being an honest mistake. Why is the alleged enlightened so withholding of his wisdom? Go ahead, I insist. Correct me.
You have distorted and perverted regardless of your intent. You've somehow managed to make this about my job rather than about wikileaks.
I'm not assuming anything, I'm looking at the facts. Yes many your Govt has fucked up as the info demonstrates
As for the flaws in your logic see the above section
And why dear god are going on about my personal life here??
I have offered you a chance to come talk to me in my capacity as a teacher seeing as you are so very obsessed with your own opinion on the subject.
You have ignored the invitation and instead you're just firing useless insults around like the mean something to either of us.
As for your Liberating 6 minds in 4 months - beyond applauding your 19th century style use of capitalization for Important Concepts, I really have nothing to say. I don't have a definition for mental liberation so I can't assess what you're saying, and indeed it has no relevance on the wikileaks manner. Again you're pulling us away from wikileaks and into your ego and dislike for me
Yes I'm puling you away? Really? Eve thought in this one post you have mentioned my job/personal life a multitude of times.
I offered you your chance to come talk. You're pussying out and beating your drum to try and prove some point.
Right your still going on about it great. Why so obsessed? I'll have to deal with this.
(I'll post your rebuttal here to save you time: 'You're projecting - you're pulling us into your ego and your dislike of me, not the other way around. I recognize that there is no self, am Enlightened, and therefore have no ego.')
Wrong. everyone has an ego. A Liberated person just isn't trapped in it. They can pick it up and use it as they see fit use a different one if they like and so don't get negative emotional feedback loops. The word enlightenment and all that other stuff is just something the new age people throw at this simple cognitive work. It's not one bit spiritual.
But as I said if your not willing to appologise and not man enough to come face me in the forum dedicated to discussing this were done. Are you being sly and manipulative for the sake of some personal victory? Or are you interested in this wiki leaks story at all? Nope. Interested in taking up my invitation? Nope.
You have really proven your intelligence and bravery by throwing insults and then declining a Duel with me on the topic, in the Duelling are of the forum dedicated to this, so as not to be wasting time here.
The release of hundreds of thousands of classified foreign policy cables and you come up with exactly ONE crime perpetrated by the US, with full consent of the other country it involves. Big deal.
You want more ? It's all documented in the article you said you read. How can we debate something you know nothing about?
Are you here to debate this at all?
torture at guantanemo
Us complicity in Sri Lankan War Crimes
War Crimes in Iraq
War Crimes in Afghanistahn
Some quotes for you.
"One of the documents suggests that the American forces had decapitated an Iraqi last year on the order of their higher-up, who bore personal grievance against the victim."
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/149640.html
"The documents cover much of what the public already knows about the troubled nine-year conflict: U.S. special operations forces have targeted militants without trial, Afghans have been killed by accident, and U.S. officials have been infuriated by alleged Pakistani intelligence cooperation with the very insurgent groups bent on killing Americans. "
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/07/ … ?tag=stack
more
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/07/ … ontentBody
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/07/ … 2420.shtml
CC, You're a weak weak man. To afraid to face me honestly and not intelligent enough to wriggle out of your own cowardice.
Re: Wiki Leaks
bump
In order to Get this thread back on track I'm going to leave this link for Comunist China to continue his rant on a board actually related to what he is saying
Never one to shy away from a fight, I've opened a dueling thread especially for you and me.
http://www.ruthlesstruth.com/arena/view … &t=767
I look forward to your arrival
