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Re: Appetite for Self-Production
Whether there's a new GNR album in the foreseeable future or not, the most pressing factor shouldn't be who's going to play on it. More crucial in terms of release schedule is the producer, and all eyes are on one man.
But how does Axl produce his albums? His insistence to long hours, sporadic work-flows and continuous re-recording are well documented. What struck me was a TIME article on Dr Dre, the big daddy producer of hiphop. I realized Axl and Dre may actually share some characteristics as producers and Dre's comments may actually provide some insight to the maddening methods of Rose.
Dre on re-recording / sampling:
"'I want to be known as the producer's producer. The cellos are real. I don't use samples.' He says this with a touch of derision, as if sampling is a vulgarity in the producer's palette. "I may hear something I like on an old record that may inspire me, but I'd rather use musicians to re-create the sound or elaborate on it. I can control it better."
Axl didn't sample much on CD and the only known instances caused him a bit of trouble. The MLK lines on Madagascar had clearing issues back in 2001, according to A&R Man Tom Zutaut. The intro on Riad and the Bedouins was lifted from two obscure Ulrich Schnauss tracks, and lawyers got trigger-happy.
Part of Axl's insistence to re-record may be purely pragmatic. Instead of having to weave, say, a Buckethead original into a re-fitted solo by combing the archives for a week, having Ron in the studio gives him more levarage and the possibility to work the solo into a song, instead of having it the other way around.
But a lot of it has to do with plain old-fashion control. No-one beyond Axl is irreplaceable.
Dre on studio musicians:
"Every Dre track begins the same way, with Dre behind a drum machine in a room full of trusted musicians. (They carry beepers. When he wants to work, they work.) He'll program a beat, then ask the musicians to play along; when Dre hears something he likes, he isolates the player and tells him how to refine the sound. 'My greatest talent,' Dre says, 'is knowing exactly what I want to hear.'"
That's Axl. Instead of a drum machine, he comes with the occasional piano tune. But the basics have reportedly been the same. His session hands come in, record jams all night and Axl works on the parts he likes. Like Dre, Axl obviously knows what he wants to hear.
Unfortunately, neither of the two has the ability of studio oligarch Trent Reznor to pick up the instrument and play a servicable first take, which can be honed further by more established hands. That's why they need to wait for the players to go psychic, to learn what sort of tunes the men behind the console are looking for. What is the common Dre feel, or the GNR feel? Studio musicians are asked to absorb all that into their own sensibilities, which takes a while and doesn't always sound organic right off the bat.
Dre on studio time and the car stereo:
"'Put that on a CD real quick. Let me listen to it in my truck.' Dre works in spurts. This week he's had three studio sessions of 19 hours or more. Last week he did a marathon 56-hour session. If he didn't go to the parking lot for the occasional car-stereo listening test, he'd have no idea whether it was night or day."
Axl does the car stereo thing, too. Probably this is, again, mere a practical thing. A good stereo system allows you to drive around, get out the house and still remain in touch with the song. Only now, you listen to it outside the studio space. What you'll actually hear is a potentially finished song, and that's how the consumers would hear it from hereon out. The question is, does it hold up on its own?
Dre's general timekeeping is mentioned here as another trait he appears to share with Axl. Both have a habit of getting carried away by the workflow at times, to a point where they may even need to balance things out on the week after.
Dre on entourages:
"To help break the monotony of studio sessions, Dre has a floating band of merry men on hand - security guards, musicians, friends - all eager to crack up the Doctor. While he takes a break and eats dinner, the room fills with half a dozen folks who smoke pot, drink Hennessy Cognac, make fun of one another and generally behave like nightmare houseguests. Dre clearly loves the distraction, though he doesn't personally indulge in anything beyond a toothpick. When he folds up his plastic clamshell of chicken and says, 'Back to work,' the room clears."
Axl likes to have his people around, too, and is known to have relished the possibility to take off to a party simply to distract himself. Dre's example shows how money buys you an element of power - he simply suggests the room should clear and his jesters are gone, back into the jack-in-a-box.
Both Axl and Dre, therefore, seem to exercise what could be called absolute power over timetables. Their musicians are on call - friends can be summoned simply when the host cares for them to be around. Someone gets the call and goes for it, as someone always does.
When you're in charge of a production like this and have everybody cater your wishes, wouldn't you take your precious time to hone your dream project? During the writing of the TIME article, Dre was laying down tracks for his third solo album, Detox. A decade later, he still does.
Consistent output as a producer-only doesn't change the fact that, like Axl, Dre has had all the time and resources in the world to release Detox multiple times over. But maybe that's about being the king in the studio. Out there, you're subject to scrutiny. In here, no-one dares to question your opinion.
And something tells me that self-proclaimed King Dick will now hold court well after Detox has been released and, perhaps even, forgotten.
- Chris Piss
- Rep: 1
Re: Appetite for Self-Production
Taking your own sweet time can be justified a whole variety of ways but ultimately the sheer extent of Dre and particularly Axl's dependency on emotional crutches/indulgences reeks more of a mercurial millionaire's madness than a rational attempt at enabling one's own creativity.
Re: Appetite for Self-Production
Dre put Detox on the backburner for a while because he was producing shit for other people. This is the guy who put people like Snoop Dogg, Eminem, and 50 Cent on the map. I think one of his own songs says it best: "Motherfucker, I'm Dre. I don't need your respect. I don't need to make another album bitch, I ain't gotta do shit. I do it because I want to, not to stay in the game."
Though there are similarities, Axl didn't really do shit in those however many years he was workin on CD. Dre was still puttin out awesome tracks.
Re: Appetite for Self-Production
I think Madagascar sounds weaker by having the live french horn instead of using a synthesizer, its too soft and gets drowned out, or mabye its just shoddy mixing. Its a pity as that melody seems to drive the live versions and makes the song all the more powerfull.
I wonder how much of that kind of indulgence was due to Axl or others, Roy Thomas Baker for example.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Appetite for Self-Production
Great Thread.
I've been intrigued at the creative process these guys go through for a while. On one hand technology is the musicians best friend as it allows things that were never before possible to happen, on the other, it's a world of choice anxiety out there now.
For example, how can I ever decide on any sound - there's too many variables. Even once you get an amazing sound, from miking up a great drum in a great room with a great mike at a great angle, you can then entirely shape the sound through EQ and plug ins.
Thats shit drives me nuts, and no one cares about my record, god help someone like Axl or Dre who has the world just waiting to either lavish them with praise or ridicule.
Anyway, i've been interested in Axl's methods for a while. They do seem quite similar to Dre. I gather that the originial catcher solo in the demo was spliced from a number of takes and a warm up session to make a part. Also I gather bumble just recorded heaps and heaps of ideas as well and the guys then get togehter and kind of construct parts from it. It's quite an interesting process.
As for the car stereo, a number of people use that technique. As studio monitors kick ass, but sometimes you want to know what a song will sound like on normal equipment.
