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- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Stinson Vents at Del James During Dublin Concert
I see this as a bump in the road though, like a couple of shows got fucked up. It's not the first time Axl's been late or that some fuckhead as thrown a bottle and caused him to walk.
It's just how things roll in GNR land, you want Axl to sing, that's the price - he comes on when he's mentally ready to or whatever. I'm not justifying it or whatever, I'm just saying it's been that way at least since the UYI days if not even earlier.
Regarding bono's post. I don't have "hope" of this becomming a huge UYI world owning media deal again, but I also see no reason it won't contiune as it does. People will come and go from the band, some shows will get fucked up like these have been, while others will be great nights out like the asian shows, and apparently that other recent gig. Eventually Axl may release another album or something. In the same way 2002 didn't end the band, this won't either.
Another thought, it's common to bash Del and Beta etc, but perhaps they're responsible for the bits of the tour that do work. In 1990 I think once Axl walked he'd be gone for the day. In 2010 - someone talked him back on stage - all be it after 30 mins. This tour no one has quit the band yet, and there's not been any more riots and stuff.
While I agree they arn't industry professionals, it seems Axl's never got on too well with the suit types - and rather than Beta being the reason stuff derails - maybe she's the reason we get anything at all before it derails - and without her it would be worse. Food for thought.
Re: Stinson Vents at Del James During Dublin Concert
I disagree about Tommy.
I respect that he does a great job, I respect that he's held up band morale in the tougher times, and I'll grant he has an identity out of GNR, so I in no way mean this as snub, but the idea that the band ends if he leaves if a bit much.
I remember someone once making the smart ass remark that this band is "Axl Rose and the guys who ain't slash" or something similar, and I think most of the general public feels that way.
Most of the general public who go to a show are going to see Axl and his merrymen, the identity of those merry men is pretty much irrelevant to 90% of the audience unless it's the original band.
The mindset in the news is, "GNR, whose only original member Axl Rose, blah blah blah". Occasionally tommy will get a shout out as a former member of the replacments, but it's a one liner in the media, that could easily be swapped with any resume of a replacement, like "bumbefoot, virtuoso guitarist recommened to Axl by Satrani".
The other thing is, while bass players are important musically, to the audience in most non-funk type bands they arn't. GNR was about Axl's voice and Slash's guitar. Then it became about Axl's voice and various bad ass guitar stufff - from bumble and bucket and so on. It's about guitar and voice to most people, there's not even a lot of bass solos where anyone would miss him or anything. And I don't mean that disrespectfully...I'm just saying....do most people care about bass? If GNR did a show with Axl, Slash, Izzy, Steven and a session guy on bass would the media not call it a reunion? It would be more GNR than the UYI tour was. Don't get me wrong, I think duff is key to the old GNR sound as much as anyone else, but I don't think most of the stadium thinks that.
As for more credibility than Duff, maybe to hardcores who've followed Axl since the inception of the new band, but to 99% of the world - think if Duff returned to GNR (which wont happen with these kinds of late starts Imo) - the same would apply - many people wouldn't care cos they only want Axl and Slash, and of those that do care about the bass - duff's status a founder, and as the guy on AFD, LIES and UYI would eclipse anyone else on the bass.
I dont mean that disrespectfully to Tommy, he does a fine job on CD, and he's been great live for years now, I'm just saying I think this board needs perspective, and that perspective to me is that the general public would not rank tommy over duff, and indeed, does not care much about bass players at all, it's all about Axl Rose these days.
You said it - the hardcores. Tommy's the only thing that gave it legit credibility to begin with, and I say begin with because he's been there since the inception of the reboot. Despite NIN, nobody knows who the hell Robin Finck is, Buckethead is seen as a joke outside of Dickerson's studio and his fanbase 'cause of his schtick, and the rest are nobody's, except for Tommy. Tommy has a massive respect in the business, rock, punk and otherwise. The casual person might not know him, but the people who count DO.
The casuals NEVER fucking took this crap show seriously, because Slash wasn't there. They lost those fuckin' guys out of the gate. The hardcores took it seriously imo because they did see guys like Tommy up there w/ Axl. Axl became a joke as soon as he came out in Jerry Rice jersey's and Korn braids... but Tommy was still there... hardcores were like "you gotta love that guy".
If Tommy goes, it completely dissolves into Faster Pussycat with Axl Rose. A bunch of nobody's with a has been on vocals.
I guess in the end, it doesn't really matter. If they aren't gonna put out a new album, then GN'R needs to reunite, because if they aren't gonna put out new music, they're wasting everyone's fucking time pretending like they're Guns N' Roses. If you're Guns N' Roses, cut some goddamn records. Let's go, time is money... 
Re: Stinson Vents at Del James During Dublin Concert
monkeychow wrote:I disagree about Tommy.
I respect that he does a great job, I respect that he's held up band morale in the tougher times, and I'll grant he has an identity out of GNR, so I in no way mean this as snub, but the idea that the band ends if he leaves if a bit much.
I remember someone once making the smart ass remark that this band is "Axl Rose and the guys who ain't slash" or something similar, and I think most of the general public feels that way.
Most of the general public who go to a show are going to see Axl and his merrymen, the identity of those merry men is pretty much irrelevant to 90% of the audience unless it's the original band.
The mindset in the news is, "GNR, whose only original member Axl Rose, blah blah blah". Occasionally tommy will get a shout out as a former member of the replacments, but it's a one liner in the media, that could easily be swapped with any resume of a replacement, like "bumbefoot, virtuoso guitarist recommened to Axl by Satrani".
The other thing is, while bass players are important musically, to the audience in most non-funk type bands they arn't. GNR was about Axl's voice and Slash's guitar. Then it became about Axl's voice and various bad ass guitar stufff - from bumble and bucket and so on. It's about guitar and voice to most people, there's not even a lot of bass solos where anyone would miss him or anything. And I don't mean that disrespectfully...I'm just saying....do most people care about bass? If GNR did a show with Axl, Slash, Izzy, Steven and a session guy on bass would the media not call it a reunion? It would be more GNR than the UYI tour was. Don't get me wrong, I think duff is key to the old GNR sound as much as anyone else, but I don't think most of the stadium thinks that.
As for more credibility than Duff, maybe to hardcores who've followed Axl since the inception of the new band, but to 99% of the world - think if Duff returned to GNR (which wont happen with these kinds of late starts Imo) - the same would apply - many people wouldn't care cos they only want Axl and Slash, and of those that do care about the bass - duff's status a founder, and as the guy on AFD, LIES and UYI would eclipse anyone else on the bass.
I dont mean that disrespectfully to Tommy, he does a fine job on CD, and he's been great live for years now, I'm just saying I think this board needs perspective, and that perspective to me is that the general public would not rank tommy over duff, and indeed, does not care much about bass players at all, it's all about Axl Rose these days.
You said it - the hardcores. Tommy's the only thing that gave it legit credibility to begin with, and I say begin with because he's been there since the inception of the reboot. Despite NIN, nobody knows who the hell Robin Finck is, Buckethead is seen as a joke outside of Dickerson's studio and his fanbase 'cause of his schtick, and the rest are nobody's, except for Tommy. Tommy has a massive respect in the business, rock, punk and otherwise. The casual person might not know him, but the people who count DO.
The casuals NEVER fucking took this crap show seriously, because Slash wasn't there. They lost those fuckin' guys out of the gate. The hardcores took it seriously imo because they did see guys like Tommy up there w/ Axl. Axl became a joke as soon as he came out in Jerry Rice jersey's and Korn braids... but Tommy was still there... hardcores were like "you gotta love that guy".
If Tommy goes, it completely dissolves into Faster Pussycat with Axl Rose. A bunch of nobody's with a has been on vocals.
I guess in the end, it doesn't really matter. If they aren't gonna put out a new album, then GN'R needs to reunite, because if they aren't gonna put out new music, they're wasting everyone's fucking time pretending like they're Guns N' Roses. If you're Guns N' Roses, cut some goddamn records. Let's go, time is money...
wow......:mosh: "I'm a monkeyyyyyyyy"
Re: Stinson Vents at Del James During Dublin Concert
Totally agree with Aussie about this band not being a festival band in no way, shape, or form and this is probably their final year as a festival headliner. Their own hardcore fans are getting fed up yet they have the balls to go out in front of people who don't give a damn? Next time piss and beer storms will be the least of their worries. The shit will start flying.
The moral to the current events is.....people are sick of it. When piss bombs are hitting you during your second most famous song, time to regroup and move on to plan B. Hopefully plan B consists of something resembling that "moving on" thing that was talked about year after year for a decade. It was talked about so long looks like the crowds are getting a few steps ahead of the advice.
Axlin08 hit the nail on the head.....if they cant record anything, just disband. To hell with this nostalgia head trip. If I want nostalgia I'll start begging for a reunion. I don't need to see lineup #19976588888 do it.
I'll tell you what boring and predictable...the posts in threads like these...
I don't know about all the other stuff...but jesus christ...being late? I never undrestood this arguement at all...
Its went way past the point of just "being late". Being late and its "coolness" went out of style in 2006.
Now the Slash chants are back in full force, fans booing before, during, and after songs, piss being thrown at them like a z rate bar band, Axl having hissy fits multiple times a night, and band members now looking visually agitated at gigs. That may sound like peaches and cream to you, but to the average person it is not.
If I were to take a guess, I'd say that tweet was real and he's basically forcing himself to each gig. To add insult to injury, his Euro base is starting to turn on him worse than the American crowds ever did.
There's a signpost up ahead......next stop......
James Lofton wrote:Starting to look like a repeat of 2002 is in the cards and when the train derails this time, I'm jumping off at the moment of impact.
This is worse than 02 IMO.
I agree, but I see a similar train wreck approaching.
- estrangedpaul
- Rep: 5
Re: Stinson Vents at Del James During Dublin Concert
I just read over on HTGTH that Tommy was not too happy about the events. Didn't really believe it though. Well, looks like it might be true after all.
Maybe it's just a reactionary moment for him since his family was in attendance? Things are not looking good right now. Here we go again. What will tomorrow bring?
Hmm, I doubt Tommy's family would be there.....maybe he considers the band his family? Thats what I took from the original article. They might be the ones in danger when people are throwing stuff on stage.
- estrangedpaul
- Rep: 5
Re: Stinson Vents at Del James During Dublin Concert
About the going on late though. Why does it seem like all of a sudden, the late starts are getting so much attention? Am I crazy to think that it's due to the coverage it got leading up to the Reading/Leeds festivals? They put it out in the press, pretty much warning the crowd that they could be in for a long wait. I know it's been said to death, but they've ALWAYS gone on late. And 1 hour, a half hour, 1 and a half hours, that's not exactly breaking any records. A lot of shows have close to an hour wait in between the opening act and the main act. I went to see Tom Petty a few weeks back and he went on about an hour after Crosby, Stills, and Nash.
Its because the shows are in UK & Ireland where there are stricter curfews and also a lot of Irish felt (in one guys words" "fucked up the ass by an egotistical maniac, and no Irish person is gonna take that shit" so thats why they responded with abuse. The late starts always got attention in the UK - Leeds 2002, Newcastle 2006. The Irish gig in 2006 went fine coz Axl turned up on time.
- estrangedpaul
- Rep: 5
Re: Stinson Vents at Del James During Dublin Concert
did u hear the fucking crowd booing on WTTJ when DJ did the hand cupped over ear thing?
JESUS
But the great thing was he turned it around - during Ballad of Death he did it again and people cheered. 7 guys saved the gig that 1 guy wanted to ruin.
Re: Stinson Vents at Del James During Dublin Concert
Good point about the Euro fanbase James. Everyone was under the impression that the band could get away with touring in Europe, as they were more accepting. I always thought that was grossly exaggerated. I can't see how things could go any worse if they toured the US.
I still don't truly understand exactly why things have changed so much since 2006. People didn't get THAT upset then and the same things are going on now and all chaos is breaking loose. Again, the massive negative media attention from Reading/Leeds had to add fuel to the fire. That's the only explanation I can see. And they said there's no such thing as bad press. They were wrong.
Re: Stinson Vents at Del James During Dublin Concert
"fucked up the ass by an egotistical maniac, and no Irish person is gonna take that shit" so thats why they responded with abuse.
What's this bullshit? Were better than other people because were Irish? Load of shit. Were a nation of pussies who like to tell stories about how great we are. I'm not buying that "no Irish person would stand for this" bullshit. It was mob mentality on the night. " Oh look they're throwing stuff.. I guess I'm supposed to throw stuff too... Oh now were all booing.. Cool.. Me to.."
Re: Stinson Vents at Del James During Dublin Concert
faldor wrote:I just read over on HTGTH that Tommy was not too happy about the events. Didn't really believe it though. Well, looks like it might be true after all.
Maybe it's just a reactionary moment for him since his family was in attendance? Things are not looking good right now. Here we go again. What will tomorrow bring?
Hmm, I doubt Tommy's family would be there.....maybe he considers the band his family? Thats what I took from the original article. They might be the ones in danger when people are throwing stuff on stage.
Yeah good point. I took him literally, till Olorin pointed the same thing out earlier.
