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- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: 2009-10 Chinese Democracy World Tour
But why would it be different in the usa?
World wide people love the old band, world wide people want the old band back, yet - there is enough interest in what axl does alone, or in simply seeing axl as a founding member of the old band live - to sustain the current GNR - not to the levels achieved by the old band - but to the point where it keeps on going. Fans in the usa wouldn't be any more likely to reject new guns than fans in canada or australia or france IMO. Most probably do answer negative to those questions, but enough people give a shit that the show goes on.
Re: 2009-10 Chinese Democracy World Tour
I think my overall point. Feel to conduct your own poll. Hell, I'd even love it if the numbers were skewed. Go to some show of a bans with fans that should appeal to GNR fans. Do an exit poll. Ask those questions I listed above. You'll be surprised at the results apparently.
No no no no no...and no! I will not be suprised because I don't care what other people think about art. All I care about is Gnr as a functioning, profitable business that schedules tours, makes money for themself-the promoter-and the venue. All I hope for in the future is a US tour and new album. By playing all these shows overseas they haul off tons of cash which will allow them to eventually tour the US and to release another album.
I don't care about polls or speculating as to why something is or is not happening. I'll let it happen, then analyze objectively after it happens.
Re: 2009-10 Chinese Democracy World Tour
It has nothing to do with the size of the venue being played. It has to do with how many tickets are sold, how many beers are bought, and how much merchandise is bought. Did the promoter make money, did the band make money?
Yes, I agree that a US tour is much more challenging than the rest of the world and there is a reason as to why they aren't coming here in the near future. However, there are a lot of reasons why their US tours have been a mess. Inappropriate venues and touring schedules chief among them.
Unlike you and Buzz, I don't know what is going to happen in the future so I will choose to wait until it happens (and it will happen). We will see then.
I'm focused on the US. All we can go by is history...nobody if claiming to "know" what is going to happen in the future, but past behavior is indicitive of future behavior. People study trends for a reason.
If by inappropriate venues you mean too many shows or too large of an arena in some locations, then I agree with you. The band is now a theatre act in most US locations. If by inappropriate venues you mean something else, you're going to have to explain yourself further.
The schedule is irrelevent, unless you're referring to too many shows too close to each other. If people wanted to go, they would go no matter what the schedule was. People just don't want to go.
Shows went from relatively full in 02 to half full including tickets given away at many venues in larger cities like Chicago in 06. Sales of the album disappointed in the US by almost anybody's point of view, so why would you expect a tour to be better than the 06 tour? I don't understand what is going to reverse the downward trend. I also find the numbers very difficult to believe given the feedback on the forums given by huge supporters of the band, but I don't care about the numbers enough to argue with them. Maybe GnR bought the tickets or someone bought them on their behalf to inflate the numbers. Whatever. I'll trust people like Russ and their actual experience over the numbers any day of the week.
my only problem with your argument Buzz and now Russ is "the nobody cares anymore". All the promoters outside of the US are still throwing money at Axl. You don't headline Reading and Leeds for the 2nd time in this era if people don't care....you don't sell over 200,000 tickets down in South America if people don't care, and you don't sell close to 100,000 tickets on a mini Asian tour if people don't care. The Canadian tour did pretty good as well. They were in the top of the Billboard touring charts for all these tours. People do care and will pay to see an inferior Gnr if Axl is still involved. It's as simple as that. Of course, it isn't as successful as their prime, and there is no arguing that Slash would catapult them back to close to their heyday, but that doesn't necessarily mean "no one cares".
None of that was in the US. All of it was outside the US. Nobody here cares about this band at all. When was the last time Guns N Roses or Axl Rose made yahoo or google's top searches AND it wasn't related to Axl getting into a fight of some kind? Axl is a sideshow in the US and that's all he is. He's TMZ material.
When's the last time anybody not on a forum or tied to the GnR camp at some point said something positive about Axl? The album even got critical acclaim by most reviews I saw and it still didn't sell and the singles still flopped in the US. I'm sorry, but you cannot blame that on the record company. It's all on Axl because nothing stopped him from doing anything positive to support the album other than himself (proactively stopping the excuses that always follow this statement). Stop the excuses. Even if he had promoted it, it's highly unlikely that it would have made a difference.
Most people aren't interested in a Guns N Roses album that doesn't sound like Guns N Roses. No amount of promotion can fix that. People don't want their bands to grow into something completely different, they want them to keep doing what they like. If they can tweak that to a different style, but still be who they are, that's fine. Nobody wants a nostolgic 80s band recreating themselves into a mid 90s industrial band in 2008.
As for the "kids" that grew up on this band, they must not care too much either because I was near the top of the TWAT performance on RB for my PS3 and I suck at it. The kids aren't playing the songs on the game and they aren't buying the record. That generation doesn't seem all that interested either...maybe it's because they aren't looking to a guy in his mid 40s that they cannot relate to at all to save music, maybe it's because they don't like Axl, maybe they all love Slash from GH3 (kidding). Whatever it is, they aren't interested either.
Re: 2009-10 Chinese Democracy World Tour
DCK wrote:Think I'm backing out of this debate
Me too. Arguing with someone just for the sake of doing so isn't my thing...well, not as much as it used to be anyway. My point is pretty clear (to most people, though I haven't taken a poll to confirm that).
nice jab on your way out the door 
honestly, i think we agree on 90 percent of what the other is saying - maybe i haven't been clear enough on my points or you just haven't been listening well enough.
I have no idea why the usa so clearly likes gnr less than the rest of the world but it's got to have something to do with the over all market. metallica and ac/dc are still doing well are they not? so that makes it all more difficult BUT it is clear that the music played on the radio in the us is drastically different than every place else.
Re: 2009-10 Chinese Democracy World Tour
buzzsaw wrote:DCK wrote:Think I'm backing out of this debate
Me too. Arguing with someone just for the sake of doing so isn't my thing...well, not as much as it used to be anyway. My point is pretty clear (to most people, though I haven't taken a poll to confirm that).
nice jab on your way out the door
honestly, i think we agree on 90 percent of what the other is saying - maybe i haven't been clear enough on my points or you just haven't been listening well enough.
I have no idea why the usa so clearly likes gnr less than the rest of the world but it's got to have something to do with the over all market. metallica and ac/dc are still doing well are they not? so that makes it all more difficult BUT it is clear that the music played on the radio in the us is drastically different than every place else.
I think you're right. I think the big difference is that I am pretty sure I know exactly why and you're either not sure or don't want to acknowledge the likely answer.
It wasn't really meant to be a jab - I thought it was funny.
Re: 2009-10 Chinese Democracy World Tour
war wrote:buzzsaw wrote:Me too. Arguing with someone just for the sake of doing so isn't my thing...well, not as much as it used to be anyway. My point is pretty clear (to most people, though I haven't taken a poll to confirm that).
nice jab on your way out the door
honestly, i think we agree on 90 percent of what the other is saying - maybe i haven't been clear enough on my points or you just haven't been listening well enough.
I have no idea why the usa so clearly likes gnr less than the rest of the world but it's got to have something to do with the over all market. metallica and ac/dc are still doing well are they not? so that makes it all more difficult BUT it is clear that the music played on the radio in the us is drastically different than every place else.
I think you're right. I think the big difference is that I am pretty sure I know exactly why and you're either not sure or don't want to acknowledge the likely answer.
yes, ofcourse you do.......
i agree with buzz that (even disregarding the line-up) nobody wants a reinvented gnr in sound or atleast the odler folks don't and they are the ones potentially interested. CD is too different. outisde of a reunion, gnr needs a more classsic sounding album if they want to see better success in the us. the problem with that is if they fail they will lose some more fans.
do you need me to translate that buzz because i'm sure you're reading "slash sucks, i want axl's balls, new gnr is the best version of gnr ever, the usa prefers bumblefoot in gnr to slash"
Re: 2009-10 Chinese Democracy World Tour
Yes. They are a 3000-5000 seat theatre band in most US locations. Yes. I think they booked too big a venue in a lot of US cities. Yes. I think they scheduled too many shows too close together. Those things contributed to the "mess". Tomorrow is another day, and things could be different if done right. It will never be the old days, but it can be financially successful and entertaining for whatever fans are left if executed properly.
