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Re: Dj Ashba and Dizzy Reed: "We're working on a new album"
So yes when CD came in stores, the magic was simply gone.
Yes, the magic was gone because we got it when we first heard the new songs, either from live recordings or from leaks. The amount of magic we got was the same, we just didn't get it in one big lump when listening to the record, we got it in small portions through the years before. I don't see the problem.
I remember when the Illusions records came out I was thrilled and couldn't wait to hear the new music. Well in CD there was NO NEW MUSIC.
I just don't get it. Should I be disappointed when listening to a new record for the second time because I listened to it the first time and ruined the magic? Whenever we hear something for the first time, and like it, that's the magic moment. And whenever we choose to listen to something good for the first time, we know -- it goes without saying -- that the magic of listening to this music for the first time will be consumed and probably never -- unless we suffer from severe amnesia -- return.
When I chose to listen to the leaks I knew this. It was obvious. But I got exactly the same amount of joy from listening to the music for the first time, even if it came from leaks, that I would had I waited until the official release. Actually, waiting for something to be official carries the danger of you becoming uninterested in the music in the mean time, and hence postponing the joy can be unwise.
And maybe I had my life wrapped around it, either way the mystery is still gone.
The mystery would have been gone seconds after hearing the released music, too, if you had waited. So today you would still be in the same exact situation. The mystery of CD is forever lost. Get over it. Or hang onto the mystery of CDII.
Actually, I am starting to fear that people are more fans of the mystery of CD than the actual music. Perhaps the whole long-winding CD farce summoned fans that just got hung up in the myth of what the record would be. And now that it has come out and it is just 'a good record' they are disillusioned because what they were really fans of has gone. Too bad.
Re: Dj Ashba and Dizzy Reed: "We're working on a new album"
Neemo wrote:yes but if diehard fans dont give a shit anymore then why should joe-average?
Good question. If die-hard fans stop caring one would expect the same for everyone else. I completely agree. But I don't see why die-hard fans should care less about new music because they downloaded the leaks for CD; I just don't see a plausible mechanism here. The die-hard fans did not get less, they got the same, albeit from a different source. The music has in no way been devalued because of the leaking. The music remains the same. If they were fans of GN'R's music before they should still be (given that the music is good).
If "die-hard" fans stop caring about GN'R and their music now, I think the mechanism is that these so-called "die-hard" fans just grow up and care less about music in general (we all tend to do), or because they are fed up with other aspects of being GN'R (there are many to choose from), rather than how they obtained the music, and mistakenly, perhaps even knowingly, attribute this novel lack of interest to the leaking.
I just find the notion that getting the music through leaks rather than official releases should turn away die-hard fans a bit absurd, perhaps because I don't see a plausible mechanism and because I personally, as a die-hard fan, couldn't give two shits where the music came from.
99 % of the so-called "die-hard" fans are adolescent and their music taste is vicarious and their dedication transient. No wonder they get bored. Being a die-hard fan requires stamina. New kids will take their place (if GN'R do the right things). The real die-hard fans don't get so easily turned away.
I can't speak for others but for me it's not that I care less about the music. Don't get me wrong. If Axl were to announce a new album is coming out, I would buy the album no doubt. I just don't care anymore about the rumours, the delays, the leaks, tours. I don't care about all the behind the scenes stuff anymore. If he ever decides to come up with new music then great if not so be it. I'm totally comfortable with the idea that CD was the last GNR album we'll ever get or should I say Axl. Even when some of the band members speak through interviews and such I only glance at what was said. I don't care anymore. I still love music, music will always be a passion for me but I'm just not interested in all of Axl's shenanigans anymore. Leaks are not gonna turn me away cause I'll ignore them leaks. And as for CD leaks. I agree we did not get less on the album. But what we got were songs that most die hards had heard for years. So the "new music" was actually really old to most of us. So in that aspect I guess we got less. And because of all the waits and the delays, CD had lost all it's aura of mystery.
Re: Dj Ashba and Dizzy Reed: "We're working on a new album"
Actually, I am starting to fear that people are more fans of the mystery of CD than the actual music. Perhaps the whole long-winding CD farce summoned fans that just got hung up in the myth of what the record would be. And now that it has come out and it is just 'a good record' they are disillusioned because what they were really fans of has gone. Too bad.
I think you hit the nail on the head.
Re: Dj Ashba and Dizzy Reed: "We're working on a new album"
CD is over and a new chapter has begun. They seem to be doing things right now. Let's hope it continues. Continuing to debate the failures of Chinese is utterly pointless. Quit looking back and look forward. Keep hope alive!
Re: Dj Ashba and Dizzy Reed: "We're working on a new album"
I just find the notion that getting the music through leaks rather than official releases should turn away die-hard fans a bit absurd, perhaps because I don't see a plausible mechanism and because I personally, as a die-hard fan, couldn't give two shits where the music came from.
Not saying the leaks turned the fans away...if anything it kept some of us around, what i'm saying is that dribs and drabs of leaked material as well as absurd rumors and other shit is what turned the fans off...also saying that the slow source of leaked material basically elminated what should have been a buzz for "the most anticipated album of all time" maybe at one time it was the most anticiapted...but when it actually dropped the anticipation was gone because of the leaks..not saying that we got less satifaction from the album, but stretched out over the course of 8 years or whatever the buzz was severely diluted...yeah we got lots of excitemnt at RIR III then more excitement in Feb 2006, then more again as music was made available from whatever sources....but think of all those highs,,,then multiply them by 14...could you imagine the GnR fanbase if nobody heard anything until the release date? it sould have been insanity, and yes something huge may have spawned off of that for radio and tours and whatever else...but it didnt so what can ya do? hind sight is always 20/20
Actually, I am starting to fear that people are more fans of the mystery than the actual music. Perhaps the whole CD farce drew fans that just got hung up in the myth of what the record would be. And now that it has come out and just is a good record they are disillusioned. Too bad. But if so they are not die-hard fans of GN'R and their music, but rather fans of the myths surrounding the band and less so of the music.
EXACTLY TRUE! karma, but when you spend 10 or so years anticipating music but getting gossip then the shift becomes indistinguishable. for me i had to take my time and slowly digest Chinese Democracy. separate the bullshit from the actual product of the album...some poeple appreciate the music for what it is others cant forget all the other shit...some peopel thought that CD would solve all the worlds pproblems...other people knew it was just gonna be a Rock Album, if you expected anythign more than Axl Rose's next album with a new GnR then you were setting yourself up for dissapointment...soem people really were expecting the sun and moon and wondered WTF when all they got was a flashlight
Re: Dj Ashba and Dizzy Reed: "We're working on a new album"
Agathos. It's not that we became more fans of the mystery. But how could I put this? See Axl in my opinion fell asleep at the wheel. People wanted to hear new music from him. They really did. And that is why that in 2000 or 2001 when he played at the Rio festival it got people talking. Then in 02 he did the VMA's and had he released his music back then I think it would've been more successful. Instead he chose to play the waiting game. And while the die hards waited, the average Joe didn't and he lost all his momentum. And back in the Illusions days, it didn't matter that he played new songs during shows in advance cause aside from the people that attended the shows, few outside would hear the new material. Can't do that anymore so the vast majority of the songs had been heard for years. So yes we may have had the magic when we heard it then. But as far as the success of the album it hurt cause not only did the die hards had heard all the new tracks, but the average joes that cared enough to at least check it out had heard the tracks as well and for a long while as well. Therefore when CD came out yes it was a new GNR record, but a new record with really old music in it. And that is where the aura was gone. Most tracks had been played many times. When CD came out it felt like I just but a greatest hits. And people didn't wait back then cause quite franctly they probably thought it would be the only way to hear that music anyways. If Axl really wants to come out with more music I hope he learned from his past mistakes.
Re: Dj Ashba and Dizzy Reed: "We're working on a new album"
CD is over and a new chapter has begun. They seem to be doing things right now. Let's hope it continues. Continuing to debate the failures of Chinese is utterly pointless. Quit looking back and look forward. Keep hope alive!
I hope this new chapter will be a good one. But it is certainly less appealing. Maybe Axl will be able to bring it back eventually.
Re: Dj Ashba and Dizzy Reed: "We're working on a new album"
CD is over and a new chapter has begun. They seem to be doing things right now. Let's hope it continues. Continuing to debate the failures of Chinese is utterly pointless. Quit looking back and look forward. Keep hope alive!
exactly and all you can do is figure out what happened for yourself with the release of CD and try not to fall into the same pit traps you did before so not to take away from the next release from these guys
i didnt listen to anything from Slash prior to the album release....so when i got it i worked for me to heard fresh new music from one of my fav musicians, i'm gonna try to avoid any GnR leaks this time around and patiently await the next album...we'll see how it pans out if something actually leaks 
Re: Dj Ashba and Dizzy Reed: "We're working on a new album"
madagas wrote:CD is over and a new chapter has begun. They seem to be doing things right now. Let's hope it continues. Continuing to debate the failures of Chinese is utterly pointless. Quit looking back and look forward. Keep hope alive!
I hope this new chapter will be a good one. But it is certainly less appealing. Maybe Axl will be able to bring it back eventually.
Axl is out kicking some serious ass right now....partying, rocking...out in public. The band is tight as hell....short of a reunion, what more do you want?:mosh: Check the pics out over at htgth...some great stuff.
