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- killingvector
- Rep: 21
Re: Damien Echols from the West Memphis Three Interview
Spot on Neemo.
The trial transcripts and evidence are up on callahan's site. Just google callahan & the west memphis three. You can read everything there unfiltered.
wm3.org supporters tend to blur the line between actual innocence and not guilty in a court of law.
The DNA evidence was introduced in the appellate phase and was doomed to die from the very beginning. The partial DNA results could not exclude the defendants from the crime scene; their lawyers knew that very early on. From an evidentiary point of view, the DNA was never going to exonerate the 3.
From the point of pure innocence, where we re-try the 3 in our own minds, the DNA evidence equally fails because there is still a likelihood that they were at the crime scene. The partial DNA matches still link the 3 to the scene of the killings, whether it is skin scrapings under the nails of Moore or the blood on Damien's necklace which was found to be either Baldwin's or Moore's, I believe.
Re: Damien Echols from the West Memphis Three Interview
Unfortunately this case has taken on mythic proportions, and has attracted nuts defending the three, that they don't need.
Although there's LOTS of facts that prove enough circumstantial to free them, i'd be quicker to believe the authorites in this case right now, and for awhile.
There's way too much wacky shit going on with their defenders. Those cats have reached the "where's Jimmy Hoffa" status.
With that said, I do believe these guys are innocent.
- killingvector
- Rep: 21
Re: Damien Echols from the West Memphis Three Interview
Echols will get the needle in 2011/2012 when his federal appeal is denied something this year.
But it is shocking the absolute bullshit that is out there in regards to supporter lies. Just look at the post a few above which says that it was PROVEN that animals inflicted the wounds to the victims not a knife. Guys, it was a theory floated by the defense in an attempt to get a new trial. The ME rejected it, the judge rejected yet there are people on the web convinced it is fact.
The same goes for the "hobbs" hair. The poster above said it was definitely determined to be from the stepfather of the victim, thus I guess the insinuation is that Hobbs was one of the killers. Yikes. First you build the straw man and then light him on fire.
Re: Damien Echols from the West Memphis Three Interview
Echols will get the needle in 2011/2012 when his federal appeal is denied something this year.
But it is shocking the absolute bullshit that is out there in regards to supporter lies. Just look at the post a few above which says that it was PROVEN that animals inflicted the wounds to the victims not a knife. Guys, it was a theory floated by the defense in an attempt to get a new trial. The ME rejected it, the judge rejected yet there are people on the web convinced it is fact.
The same goes for the "hobbs" hair. The poster above said it was definitely determined to be from the stepfather of the victim, thus I guess the insinuation is that Hobbs was one of the killers. Yikes. First you build the straw man and then light him on fire.
Yes, that was a copy and paste job. I wanted to know your side of those claims, outside of the obvious errors in claiming theories as facts.
- BrokenGlassNCigs
- Rep: 25
Re: Damien Echols from the West Memphis Three Interview
So anyways, Axl did wear a Free West Memphis Three t-shirt on the tour kickoff last night. Thought it was worth noting.
Re: Damien Echols from the West Memphis Three Interview
i feel we will never know and i'm not an expert on this case by no means but i find it offensive that these celebrities are coming out so highly convinced of their innocence. just the brutality alone on such small children shakes me to the core and is hard for me now to feel for them when these boys had to suffer like that. i am very bothered and perplexed by this to say the least. the cops fucked up alot on the o.j thing and he was aquitted. we all know he killed them right ?
Re: Damien Echols from the West Memphis Three Interview
James Lofton wrote:Olorin wrote:I dont even know the back story
Wow. You're in for an eye opening story.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Memphis_3
I HIGHLY recommend the documentary called Paradise Lost. One of the best documentaries I've ever watched. It might still be on youtube. If not, rent/download it ASAP.
And if you read the court transcripts you will realize why the documentary presented a slanted view of the entire case.
Jesse Misskelly has been represented as a 'retard' by his own defense team and the Echols/Baldwin attorneys. However, on the stage, the defense's own expert admitted that Misskelly was not retarded and was aware of the difference between right and wrong.
This is important because the crux of the case comes down to Misskelly's confessions (plural) which, in the determination of actual guilt or innocence, condemns Baldwin, Echols, and Misskelly.
The first confession was delivered without any warning after Misskelly made it clear he wanted to clear his conscience. Although he made mistakes as to the timing of the crime, which were corrected in a second tape recorded interview, he knew aspects of the crime that only the police knew, i.e. that the Byers boy was the only victim who had his genitals mutilated, that two of the boys were sodomized, that black 'rope' (in reality shoestrings) was used to hogtie the victims, and that two of the boys were drowned while the other was killed in a different manner.
Misskelly went on to confess AFTER his conviction while being transported to the county jail. He told the escorting officers that the appeals process was not going to save him because he was involved in the killings. The officers informed the DA and Jesse's lawyer who tried vehemently to stop Jesse from making another statement to the prosecution. Remember this was post conviction and there was nothing Jesse could gain from making such a statement. Stidham, jesse's lawyer, was exasperated and had to listen to jesse lay out the act of murder to the DA. He told the authorities he had held one of the boys and even ran down one after he tried to escape. To corroborate this story, Jesse told the DA that he threw an empty Evan Williams whiskey bottle under the highway underpass in the Robin Hood Hills woods. As the sun was setting , the DA, the police, and Stidham went out to the crime scene, recovered a broken bottle top which was immediately matched to the Evan Williams whiskey bottle. It was found in the exact place Jesse had said it was located and offered a piece of evidence that the police were not even aware.
The Paradise Lost documentaries are very well made and I do encourage watching them. But the director Joe Berlinger admitted that he was convinced of the 3's innocence after only a five minute conversation with Echols. The teleplay is decidedly one sided as it did not truly capture details of the trial and the appeals which were commonly known to those covering it.
1. During Misskelly's trial, the defendant sat with his head down the entire trial. The jurors could see into the holding area at times and noticed Misskelly joking around and smiling with his attorneys before the proceedings started
2. Echols was decimated on the stand; this point was brought up by Jason's lawyer in the documentary. Echols hedged on his involvement in some form of satanic rituals; Misskelly gave police a detailed description of the meetings which included orgies and animal sacrifice. Echols hedged on his knowledge of Aleister Crowley; the DA produced a legal pad that Echols had scribbled on in which the defendant had been writing the names of various people, one of which was Crowley.
When Melissa Byers took the stand and told the jury that her deceased son was frightened one day (before the murders) by a man with long black hair and wearing all black clothes who drove up to their house, jumped out of a green car, and taken his picture, the connection with Echols was established. All the elements of the description fit Echols. Misskelly had mentioned in his confession that Damien had pictures of the three boys in a briefcase he brought to these night meetings. Echols, according to Misskelly, had selected these victims some time before the crimes.
3. The DNA and fiber evidence could not exonerate the 3; fiber evidence could not eliminate Echols and Baldwin as the source of fibers found at the crime scene. DNA evidence could not eliminate Echols and Baldwin as being source of DNA found at the crime scene.
I strongly suggest, if you are interested in the case, to probe deeper because the documentaries promote the wm3.org agenda and not the true facts of the case.
Weren't these kids interrogated for long periods without an attorney? If so, it destroys every point in that post.
When you get down to brass tacks, there's no concrete evidence linking them to this crime. Evidence(and its an insult to evidence to call it that) such as the Byers chick saying a devil worshiper with long hair took a pic of her son just doesn't cut the mustard.
The ONLY thing troubling is the confession(s), but we both know how easy it is to get someone to confess to something they did not do.
Misskelly had mentioned in his confession that Damien had pictures of the three boys in a briefcase he brought to these night meetings. Echols, according to Misskelly, had selected these victims some time before the crimes.
Please. The cops were on them like flies on shit and would have found these pictures. Not buying that garbage for a second and that's pretty much proof it was a coerced confession and he was willing to say anything and agree to anything just to try and be set loose.
Thanks for posting this info as other than the documentary I haven't followed the case in years, but none of that points to guilt.
What everyone seems to forget is the attack was mainly aimed at the Branch kid, and as we all know that's what you look for when investigating a multiple homicide. Some random satanic ritual would not have revolved around mutilating that one boy. Whoever committed the crime knew that kid, and his killer is probably the person who had all their teeth pulled out so no tests could be done on the bite marks.
To those unfamiliar with the case, none of the three teens in prison had their teeth pulled out after the murder. Branch's stepfather did.
- emcitymisfit
- Rep: 28
Re: Damien Echols from the West Memphis Three Interview
Cramer wrote:This story is outrageous, totally inexcusable. However I've seen multiple stories like this in my lifetime. These fucking prosecutors and judges simply won't come back and admit they were wrong. In this case, the same judge won't allow a new trial. I couldn't imagine having an ego so big, that it kept three innocent people in jail, one of which faced the death penalty.
Echols has exhausted his state appeals. His defense has flailed around with different theories at each level of appeal: the Bojangles man, animal predation, John Byers, and now Terry Hobbs.
He filed his federal writ early which, once it is rejected (and it will be), the time table for execution should be set. Probably in 2011 or 2012.
Justice prevails.
Justice and the death penalty are antithetical.
Even IF Echols is guilty (which, I honestly don't hold an opinion about one way or another), the death penalty is a stupid, barbaric institution.
Why RISK killing innocents for something that doesn't deter crime, costs more to implement, and won't resolve an injustice?
But I digress...
Re: Damien Echols from the West Memphis Three Interview
Because it's cheaper to exterminate criminals, than to keep feeding and housing them for life.
Pro-Death Penalty. I'm all for getting innocents out of there, and i'm also one of those "free them all" before one innocent dies, but for the other guys, the dead-to-rights guys, kill 'em, get it over with, we need the bed. All death penalty guys should then be killed by firing line. A bullet is cheap as hell.
Pro-Legalize all drugs. About half the jails would be emptied, for REAL criminals to be put in, with the destruction of the drug trade.
Pro-research. We need to keep pumping ideas into the science of psychology to figure out preventative measures in order to understand the anti-social personality, and fight crime that way.
But I digress...
- emcitymisfit
- Rep: 28
Re: Damien Echols from the West Memphis Three Interview
Because it's cheaper to exterminate criminals, than to keep feeding and housing them for life.
Nope. Wrong.
Pro-Death Penalty. I'm all for getting innocents out of there, and i'm also one of those "free them all" before one innocent dies, but for the other guys, the dead-to-rights guys, kill 'em, get it over with, we need the bed. All death penalty guys should then be killed by firing line. A bullet is cheap as hell.
"Dead to rights" isn't really an American ideal...
Going back to your first point, making sure that we don't kill innocents (which is impossible) by nature requires a lengthy, specialized appeals process, which is what makes capital punishment even more expensive, as counter intuitive as it sounds.
Just look at some of the people executed or sent to death row and then exonerated. The failings of our justice system will make you sick. This isn't the system I want deciding who gets killed and who doesn't.
Pro-Legalize all drugs. About half the jails would be emptied, for REAL criminals to be put in, with the destruction of the drug trade.
100% agree with you. The drug war is just alcohol prohibition one-hundred fold. Ineffective, expensive, and only puts power in the hands of thugs.
That's what happens when you create black markets for illicit substances. Why we haven't learned that as a society in 2010 escapes me.
Don't even get me started on the racism inherent in the system, and how it not only discriminates against minorities (see: Rock/Powder cocaine sentencing) and keeps inner city areas under the constant threat of violence, but also empowers criminal cartels in other societies (Mexico).
