You are not logged in. Please register or login.
- Topics: Active | Unanswered
- Intercourse
- Rep: 212
Re: Slash V Axl V Izzy V Whoeverthe fuck
I think the whole thing boils down to this..
What made AFD so perfect was that everybody was collaborating in a group situation on most songs but knew their true role in the band and stuck to it.
Sure, everybody put their spoke in but at the end of the day and the engine ran best when Izzy gave Axl the musical playing field to sing on, Axl nailed the vocals, Slash wrote the guitar lines, leads and solos and Duff and Steve nailed down the groove beneath the whole thing.
Things started to go to shit when members wanted to expand their roles into other people's areas. The main players were showing up with completed songs wanting them done a certain way and in a certain style. Both Axl and Slash got at Izzy for his 'sloppy' guitar stylings on the UYI sessions . Axl was hiring and firing band members and management at will which further undermined the band and eroded the gang ethos they had so strongly sworn by as the key to their staying together.
For me, the power plays that both men orchestrated in the past have not done either any favours. For all Axl's bullshit about his big new direction; after a decade of work 80% of the CD song structures sound like they could have been recorded very quickly by the old band in 1993. Slash's new album (from what I have heard so far) also sounds very '90's to me. Both men appear to be stuck with writing situations that frankly just don't drive them enough to raise the bar anymore.
That's not to say I don't very much enjoy what both men have done (I will own both CD and Slash's album by next week) but sadly they have proved themselves to be a lot more average than they would ever like to admit when left to lead things themselves.
The thing that gets me is why is that such a problem for either of them to see? Its very rare for band members do better when solo than with their old band, especially white male singers (I'm looking at you Misters Cornell, Corgan and Osbourne).
Bono (for all his ego) was never stupid enough to ditch the golden chariot that is his band to seek the blaze of glory alone. For all his strutting he seems to know his place far better than one or two of our heroes.
- Mikkamakka
- Rep: 217
Re: Slash V Axl V Izzy V Whoeverthe fuck
Mikkamakka wrote:It's a myth. Just because Izzy wrote a ton of Stones sounding songs, he didn't make Guns N' Roses. Slash, Duff, Izzy and Axl were Guns N' Roses, with the actual drummer strongly influencing the sound. Without Slash, all the Izzy songs would've sounded like Rapidfire or JuJu Hounds. That would have tanked and this forum wouldn't exist.
Second. I don't even agree with the 'Izzy wrote most of the GN'R stuff' statement. Quantity wise perfaps, but not quality wise. I mean compare his songs to Slash's monsters, like Locomotive or Coma, not to mention Slash's enormous contribution to songs were he didn't get a single credit (NR, Estranged etc.) - while Izzy was AWOL during the UYI sessions. YCBM would be a Richards-song without Slash's rocking it. Not one guy was GN'R. Stop downplaying Slash's importance. Without his song and solo writing ability, GN'R would have played in empty clubs. Same goes for Axl and Izzy, and maybe Duff.
Funny that you tell me to stop downplaying Slash's importance(which I never did), yet you used the previous two paragraphs to downplay Izzy's importance.
If you want to know how vital Izzy was to the band, go check Axl, Slash, and other ex members discographies post 1991 and you'll find the answer you seek.
Funny that Izzy was AWOL during the UYI sessions yet wrote half the songs, yet when he completely bailed they couldn't write shit. Where are all these "Slash monsters" after 1991 other than in the imagination of Slash fans?
Please check the post-GN'R Izzy albums. That's how GN'R would have sounded without Slash. It isn't convincing at all. As Intercourse stated they were the greatest TOGETHER, when everybody did what he does best.
Izzy was AWOL. I know you're a long-time fan, so probably read the Slash and Axl interviews back then where they said they had to use old demos to get the Izzy parts and a lot of times Slash needed to double his guitar parts, cause Izzy was AWOL.
As I see things Izzy bailed when the band was finished, cause Axl's ego overgrew, and not the band collapsed when Izzy bailed. Cause and effect can be confused. However I absolutely agree that GN'R, the band we all loved, was officially DEAD without Izzy. They couldn't have reproduced the same magic. Same would have happened if Axl or Slash had left
Re: Slash V Axl V Izzy V Whoeverthe fuck
madagas wrote:But, I rationalize this off of my core belief that Axl has always been at least 50% of the Gnr brand. With the old band, I saw Axl as the voice and face of the band and the other musicians as the music. Axl 50% vs Slash/Duff/Izzy/Drummer 50%. Voice 50% vs Music 50%.
This is where Gnr fans greatly disagree....on what percentage each member brought to the table. Just my opinion.
C'mon, Axl AND Slash were the faces of Guns N' Roses. Slash, as 'only' a guitarist made at least as much cover as Axl. He did a lot more interviews. You could have sold any newspaper with Slash (or Axl) on the cover. It was like Plant/Page. Both in the superstar league, not only the singer.
However you wanna slice it, I think Axl was 50% responsible for the success of the Gnr brand....that is what it comes down to. You may disagree, and I respect that. 
Re: Slash V Axl V Izzy V Whoeverthe fuck
Smoking Guns wrote:Madagas, the other albums they could have released, where... Greatest Hits, and Live Era... Also in 1993, they released and album.. So really 94-96/97 are the monies you speak of, but Live Era and Greatest Hits more than made up for those... It was the 97-2004 that cost a shit load of money for which you speak, and an Axl solo album would have never been given that advance. So he had to keep the GNR name if for anything else, to keep money coming in to make the album...
You are slightly off...the record company doesn't care about Greatest Hits albums. They already have the rights to those because they own the masters and in their mind that was future money in the bank. Gnr/Axl owed them an album of ORIGINAL studio material. You pile up 3-4-5 million in studio debt over a 3 year period...they want their money back and are not going to get it with an Axl solo album.
Smokin, I don't think you quite understand the money issue and contractual complexities of the 92-98 era. Axl really was backed in to a corner when the old band dissolved. A lot of it was his fault, but it was not an easy situation to resolve.:(
so do you think if axl had a choice he maybe would have dissolved the GnR name and started out under a new name?
i don't think so, and i think Smoking Guns is maybe closer to the truth here. IMO it looks like Axl always wanted to keep his work under the GnR name because that's where the money was.
now i'm not saying it wasn't mutally benefincial for the record label to keep the GnR name alive, but i think by the sheer expense of CD that Axl was quite happy with how things turned out with his retaining the name - and, though i can't remember the particular source off the top of my head, there is one quote of axl's from way back before izzy left where he said something like "i've a lot of things i want to get out through Guns N Roses". it sounds even then that the very band name was the perfect vechicle for him to express himself and he didn't intend on getting a new b(r)and name ever..
- mickronson
- Rep: 118
Re: Slash V Axl V Izzy V Whoeverthe fuck
Threads like these just make my head hurt
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: Slash V Axl V Izzy V Whoeverthe fuck
Was this before or after he taught Slash the intro to SCOM?
