the Madagascar Quotes

Neemo

just watching mississippi burning and heard the "this whole thing is fucekd up" from maddy, thought i'd post a thread about the quotes themselves. I knwo there has been discussions in the past about them but thought i'd revive the topic for the new forum. so what do we think of the subject matter? is it about oppression in general, or a reference to something personal to axl or even the breakup of gnr and slashs departure? do we think think these are movies that have influenced or interest Axl or did they just fit what he was lookiong for? Will the quotes make the final album? or will they be chopped because he couldnt get the rights to use them

as with a couple other of the new tracks...i think Madagascar is about the breakup of the original band

I'm gonna tell you a story - FBI Agent Monk (portrayed by Badja Djola), Chapter 35-A Razor Sharp Confession-1:40:06; Mississippi Burning, 1988; written by Chris Gerolmo
Stand up for righteousness! - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Why Jesus Called A Man A Fool (Delivered at Mount Pisgah Missionary Baptist Church, Chicago, Illinois, on 27 August 1967)
What? - Road Prison 36 Captain (portrayed by Strother Martin), Cool Hand Luke, 1967; written by Donn Pearce
Stand up for justice! - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Why Jesus Called A Man A Fool, (Delivered at Mount Pisgah Missionary Baptist Church, Chicago, Illinois, on 27 August 1967)
What? - Road Prison 36 Captain (portrayed by Strother Martin), Cool Hand Luke, 1967; written by Donn Pearce
Stand up for truth! - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Why Jesus Called A Man A Fool, (Delivered at Mount Pisgah Missionary Baptist Church, Chicago, Illinois, on 27 August 1967)
How can a person grow up with all this around them? - Detective William Somerset (portrayed by Morgan Freeman), Chapter 19; Se7en, 1995; written by Andrew Kevin Walker
You got to call on that something - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Why Jesus Called A Man A Fool, (Delivered at Mount Pisgah Missionary Baptist Church, Chicago, Illinois, on 27 August 1967)
Where does it come from? - FBI Agent Alan Ward (portrayed by Willem Dafoe), Chapter 6-'where does it come from, all this hatred?'-00:20:25; Mississippi Burning, 1988; written by Chris Gerolmo
That can make a way out of no way - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Why Jesus Called A Man A Fool, (Delivered at Mount Pisgah Missionary Baptist Church, Chicago, Illinois, on 27 August 1967)
All this hatred? - FBI Agent Alan Ward (portrayed by Willem Dafoe), Chapter 6-'where does it come from, all this hatred?'-00:20:25; Mississippi Burning, 1988; written by Chris Gerolmo
What we've got here is - Road Prison 36 Captain (portrayed by Strother Martin), Cool Hand Luke, 1967; written by Donn Pearce
Fear - Detective William Somerset (portrayed by Morgan Freeman), Chapter 19; Se7en, 1995; written by Andrew Kevin Walker
That power that can make a way out of no way - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Why Jesus Called A Man A Fool, (Delivered at Mount Pisgah Missionary Baptist Church, Chicago, Illinois, on 27 August 1967)
Failure to communicate - Road Prison 36 Captain (portrayed by Strother Martin), Cool Hand Luke, 1967; written by Donn Pearce
I tell ya I seen the lightning...I've heard the thunder roll - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Why Jesus Called A Man A Fool, (Delivered at Mount Pisgah Missionary Baptist Church, Chicago, Illinois, on 27 August 1967)
Everybody's acting like we can do anything and it don't matter what we do. Maybe we gotta be extra careful because maybe it matters more than we even know. - Private Eriksson (portrayed by Michael J. Fox), Casualties of War, 1989; written by Daniel Lang
Sometimes... - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Why Jesus Called A Man A Fool, (Delivered at Mount Pisgah Missionary Baptist Church, Chicago, Illinois, on 27 August 1967)
Hatred isn't somethinG you're born with - Mrs. Pell (portrayed by Frances McDormand); Chapter 29-Mrs. Pell Gives the Vital Information-- 1:29:22; Mississippi Burning, 1988; written by Chris Gerolmo
I feel discouraged - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Why Jesus Called A Man A Fool, (Delivered at Mount Pisgah Missionary Baptist Church, Chicago, Illinois, on 27 August 1967)
It gets taught - Mrs. Pell (portrayed by Frances McDormand); Chapter 29-Mrs. Pell Gives the Vital Information-1:29:22; Mississippi Burning, 1988; written by Chris Gerolmo
Sometimes I feel discouraged - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Why Jesus Called A Man A Fool, (Delivered at Mount Pisgah Missionary Baptist Church, Chicago, Illinois, on 27 August 1967)
I felt this fear - Detective William Somerset (portrayed by Morgan Freeman), Chapter 19
Se7en, 1995; written by Andrew Kevin Walker
He promised never to leave me, never to leave me alone, no never alone, no never alone. - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Why Jesus Called A Man A Fool, (Delivered at Mount Pisgah Missionary Baptist Church, Chicago, Illinois, on 27 August 1967)
Let's get something straight, alright? - Agent Rupert Anderson (portrayed by Gene Hackman), Chapter 27-- Ward and Anderson's Frustration -1:24:58; Mississippi Burning, 1988; written by Chris Gerolmo
Promised never to leave me - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Why Jesus Called A Man A Fool, (Delivered at Mount Pisgah Missionary Baptist Church, Chicago, Illinois, on 27 August 1967)
This whole thing was fucked up - Agent Rupert Anderson (portrayed by Gene Hackman), Chapter 27-- Ward and Anderson's Frustration -1:24:58; Mississippi Burning, 1988; written by Chris Gerolmo
Never to leave me alone - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Why Jesus Called A Man A Fool, (Delivered at Mount Pisgah Missionary Baptist Church, Chicago, Illinois, on 27 August 1967)
All men betray. All lose heart - The Leper / Robert the 16th Earl of Bruce (portrayed by Ian Bannen), speaking to his son, Robert the 17th Earl of Bruce in a scene concerning the betrayal Robert the 17th Earl of Bruce committed toward William Wallace; Chapter 15-Lands of Death-2:13:57; Braveheart, 1995; written by Randall Wallace
I don't want to lose heart!...I want to believe - Robert the 17th Earl of Bruce, (portrayed by Angus McFadyen) responding to his father (The Leper / Robert the 16th Earl of Bruce)'s nonchalant attitude toward betrayal; Chapter 15-Lands of Death-2:14:02; Braveheart, 1995; written by Randall Wallace
Black men and white men - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., I Have A Dream, (Delivered as the keynote speech at the March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom on 28 August 1963; written by Julian Bond)
Together at the table of brotherhood - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., I Have A Dream, (Delivered as the keynote speech at the March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom on 28 August 1963; written by Julian Bond)
I have a dream - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., I Have A Dream, (Delivered as the keynote speech at the March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom on 28 August 1963; written by Julian Bond)
Free at last! Free at last! Thank God almighty we are free at last! - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., I Have A Dream, (Delivered as the keynote speech at the March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom on 28 August 1963; written by Julian Bond)

quotes and info taken from mygnr

RussTCB

removed

James

Imagine the hell it would be to secure the rights to those quotes. Not a decade of hell, but still hell.

Communist China

I wouldn't mind if they weren't in the final product, and I can barely imagine any label going out and getting these rights for a non-single on an already way overdue, over budget album.

Neemo

thats a good point cc...but is it the label's responsibility to secure the rights? or the band's? maybe they have already been given permission and its been wrapped up in the $13mill

when you look at it though there is not all that many things being quoted

Cool Hand Luke
Mississippi Burning
Casualties Of War
Se7en
Braveheart

and two MLK speeches

DoubleTalkingJive

What the label should have done is contact the director to get the rights to have these in the song.

As far as MLK that might be tough to get, they'd have to start with the person who has the rights to the actual speech to use it. I could have sworn a long time ago something went around that they were having trouble getting the rights for MLK, which is something that can definitely be believed.

Depends how much money they have to pay for the rights for these to be used indefinitely.

In TV you get rights to air movies for a certain amount of time and a certain amount of airs, if you are a producer for example "the real world" rights have to obtained to use the music in each episode which most artists grant and money is exhanged something tells me in the Movie world it might be a bit tougher.

Metallica did with it with ONE but that was only for the video using clips from Johnny Get Your Gun which the song is about but they don't have excerps in the actual song. I am sure dealing with one director is much easier a task then five. Believe me I've worked in TV for 17 years. producers and Directors can be very difficult to deal with.

Celene Dion did it the excerps from Titanic in the song "The Heart Must Go On" That song was exclusive for that movie.

I can see this being a much more difficult task to acheive with mulitple movies and that speech.

Maybe they have already obtained the rights but maybe not.

sic.

One thing about the samples is that once you list all the separate sources, you'll there aren't that many after all.

Mississippi Burning
Cool Hand Luke
Se7en
Casualties of War
Braveheart

Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Why Jesus Called A Man A Fool
Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., I Have A Dream

To put it bluntly, most (if not all) films above depict an individual persevering through troubled times, while challenging the powers that be by having the courage to think different. There's always a near overpowering oppressor threatening the individual, be it racism (Mississippi Burning), prison (Cool Hand Luke), a psycho killer in a jaded community (Se7en), or war (Casualties of War, Braveheart). While thematically the films here aren't exactly groundbreaking, the ways certain things are expressed in them must've appealed to Axl on a personal level, which is why he's chosen this relatively small amount of sources to pull the material from.

Both Axl's lyrics and the sample montage feature a distinct personality. While Axl announces that 'I won't be told anymore', his polyphonic other half in the montage begins by saying 'I'm gonna tell you a story'. I wouldn't dare reading too much into the mindset of Axl or anyone else closely associated to the song, but to me Axl and the montage carry separate, yet intertwined narrators. One could see Axl's character as someone who feels he's been mistreated and betrayed, resulting in self-imposed exile from the world. Right before the montage, he confesses that he's been spending time self-reflecting and has reached a conclusion, which apparently enables him to forgive those, who hurt him and return to the world he'd fled.

On the very moment of inspiration the montage personality sets in. It could be described as the Axl characters soul, a train of thought, what have you. He addresses the Axl character, telling him to stand up for what he believes instead of letting unfortunate circumstances weight him down. The Axl character, whom I believe is the same personality as the one in the lyrics, is confused by this epiphany and questions the montage personality, whom initially confines himself to the voice of Martin Luther King. His own disposition start to waiver as he realizes that his prevailing emotions are hatred and fear. A motherly voice says that no-one is born with hatred, as it is something you pick up along the way. Therefore, the Axl character should still have an element of virtue within him, and by savoring that element he can right his wrongs.

The Axl character finally confesses to being afraid after what's happened to him. In the final moment of frustration, he tries to shield himself from further 'attacks' by claiming he was in a bad situation where everybody were doing bad things to one another, and that it should be considered a common trait. At the same time, the inner voice coaxes him to abandon his fears, which finally results as an emancipation.

As far as the Martin Luther King sermons go, I might include a little something from 'Why Jesus Called a Man a Fool'.

I want to share with you a dramatic little story from the gospel as recorded by Saint Luke. It is a story of a man who by all standards (Yes, Speak, doc, speak) of measurement would be considered a highly successful man. (Yes) And yet Jesus called him a fool. (Yes) If you will read that parable, you will discover that the central character in the drama is a certain rich man. (Yes) This man was so rich that his farm yielded tremendous crops. (Yes) In fact, the crops were so great that he didn't know what to do. It occurred to him that he had only one alternative and that was to build some new and bigger barns so he could store all of his crops. (Yes) And then as he thought about this, he said, "Then I'm going to do something after I build my new and bigger barns." He said, "I'm going to store my goods and my fruit there, and then I'm going to say to my soul, '˜Soul, thou hast much goods, laid up for many years. Take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.'" (Yes) That brother thought that was the end of life. (All right)

But the parable doesn't end with that man making his statement. (My Lord) It ends by saying that God said to him, (Yes) "Thou fool. (Yes) Not next year, not next week, not tomorrow, but this night, (Yes) thy soul is required of thee." (Yes)

And so it was at the height of his prosperity he died. Look at that parable. (Yes) Think about it. (Yes) Think of this man: If he lived in Chicago today, he would be considered "a big shot." (My Lord) And he would abound with all of the social prestige and all of the community influence that could be afforded. (Yes) Most people would look up to him because he would have that something called money. (Yes) And yet a Galilean peasant had the audacity to call that man a fool. (Yes)

[...]

I'd like for you to look at this parable with me and try to decipher the real reason that Jesus called this man a fool. Number one, Jesus called this man a fool because he allowed the means by which he lived to outdistance the ends for which he lived. (Yes) You see, each of us lives in two realms, the within and the without. (Yeah) Now the within of our lives is that realm of spiritual ends expressed in art, literature, religion, and morality. The without of our lives is that complex of devices, of mechanisms and instrumentalities by means of which we live. The house we live in'”that's a part of the means by which we live. The car we drive, the clothes we wear, the money that we are able to accumulate'”in short, the physical stuff that's necessary for us to exist. (My Lord)
Now the problem is that we must always keep a line of demarcation between the two. (My Lord) This man was a fool because he didn't do that. (Yes)
[...]
Now number two, this man was a fool because he failed to realize his dependence on others. (Yes) Now if you read that parable in the book of Luke, you will discover that this man utters about sixty words. And do you know in sixty words he said "I" and "my" more than fifteen times? (My Lord) This man was a fool because he said "I" and "my" so much until he lost the capacity to say "we" and "our." (Yes) He failed to realize that he couldn't do anything by himself. This man talked like he could build the barns by himself, like he could till the soil by himself. And he failed to realize that wealth is always a result of the commonwealth.
[...]

Finally, this man was a fool because he failed to realize his dependence on God. (Yeah) Do you know that man talked like he regulated the seasons? That man talked like he gave the rain to grapple with the fertility of the soil. (Yes) That man talked like he provided the dew. He was a fool because he ended up acting like he was the Creator, (Yes) instead of a creature. (Amen)

If the sermon struck a chord with Axl, he might've considered himself as literally the rich man, who'd become estranged of his former self, the artist that built the house in which the wealthy hermit resided. In that sense, the song could be considered as Axl looking back at his times with the former band, and how he developed an image of a spoiled brat with a rock star tag, and why the band fell due to infighting. There's likely more into the situation than that, as Axl might be throwing a jab at all the people who willingly lifted him to the top of the heap, secretly hoping for his downfall.

In the long run, fame did little favors to Axl. At the height of the band's popularity, Izzy left. The Making of Don't Cry is a good reminder of how alone Axl felt at the time, as he realized he couldn't connect with one of his best friends anymore. Right before the GNR hiatus in '93, he'd publicly hoped that he'd finally have some time to settle down and enjoy life with Stephanie and her infant son. The other family would be GNR, with Slash and Duff. Once he'd finally lost all those around him during the halcyon days, Axl might've felt a retreat is in order, and it is this (assumed) mental state against which I consider Madagascar.

Communist China

Axl using MLK quotes always bugged me. Seems like cheapening them to me. Especially considering Axl's "n-words get out of my way" past.

Neemo

that was a great post sic. karma

and by that alalogy i am thinking that the song will not do without the quotes and the quotes dont hold as much meaning by themselves, if the label forces axl to remove the quots i think that the song will not be released.

damn i wanna listen to the song again now with your post in mind

Neemo

Communist China wrote:

Axl using MLK quotes always bugged me. Seems like cheapening them to me. Especially considering Axl's "n-words get out of my way" past.

that is a whole other can of worms ...but for the record that is taken way out of context IMO, just cuz he said the word doesnt mean he's a biggot, especially given the subject matter of the song, not every black person is a jackass selling stolen goods on a street corner

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