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Re: Self-defence/martial arts for women - tips or links?
Got a lady friend I just met 
who's 5'9, pretty slim, not a gym bunny, looking into learning self-defence stuff. Can't go into too much detail but her work (a new job) is going to bring her into contact with some messed up types, so she's looking into learning self-defence that's going to work for her in the real world if she needs it.
We're both in London UK where you're allowed to use force to repel an attacker (though we're not as enlightened on this one issue as the US - but that's OT!)
Since I figure any forum has a range of people with differing experiences, wondered if anyone has an opinion on good styles she can learn, she's looking into studying krav maga and stuff like that, as opposed to any one formal school of MA.
I'm useless because because no-one but a hardcore molester of grizzly bears is gonna try to rape ME... 
But, I'll score brownie points if I can point her in the right direction! 
Help me out here dudes! 
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Self-defence/martial arts for women - tips or links?
One thing to remember is that if you fuck up defending yourself you're going to make the person attacking you much angrier.
Three points I'd make:
#1 - Best thing to do is not have a fight. If at all possible just get the fuck far out of there!
#2 - They say sometimes humanising yourself can be a way to avoid trouble - like some rapists and stuff will back off if you can force them to emptahise with you. Although I question how easy that is to pull off and it only works in some cases.
#3 - if you absolutely have to fight. Fight dirty. 95% of girls won't win a fair fight with a man. So don't. Balls. Eyes. Don't give someone the chance to have a return shot back at all. But again...you want to own it if you do it - cos if you do it wrong you're going to get beaten twice as bad.
#4 I stress again - try not to fight - don't go around appling rule #3 to someone who doesn't deserve it. Golden rule is to avoid a fight, if there is absolutely no other choice and its a matter of life or death. Then thats the way to go. But most of the time its better to get out of there and let the cops deal with bullshit,
Re: Self-defence/martial arts for women - tips or links?
My advice, dont ask here but ask a fighters forum.
I can recommend muscletalk.co.uk which has a fighters section even though its predominately a bodybuilding/fitness forum, but it has a good wide ranging community, many fighters, who would offer great guidance.
Re: Self-defence/martial arts for women - tips or links?
One thing to remember is that if you fuck up defending yourself you're going to make the person attacking you much angrier.
Not always:
* A recent ten-year study of attacks on women (733 rapes, 1,278 sexual assaults, and 12,235 general assaults) found that on the one hand, resisting an attempted rape lowered the odds of the perp completing the act by nearly two-thirds. But on the other, it slightly increased the odds of injury and doubled the chance of serious injury.
* A study of 3,206 assaults against women between 1992 and 1995 showed that women who fought back early in the attack were half as likely to be injured, and 75 percent of women queried reported that fighting back helped. An earlier study using data from the 70s found that women who resisted had less likelihood of being raped and 86 percent sustained no serious injury as a result — which, I suppose, means 14 percent did sustain serious injury.
* Another ten-year study of victim response in 27,595 crimes (assault, sexual assault, robbery, larceny, and burglary) showed across the board that resisting resulted in less injury than not resisting. Similarly, studies have found that resisting reduces the likelihood of an attempted crime succeeding. For example, the chance of a would-be robber pulling it off drops somewhere between 20 and 48 percent.
StraightDope.com
So, if she does, I'm just hoping someone here will have some info!
Good point Olorin!
Re: Self-defence/martial arts for women - tips or links?
I've done "martial arts" / "self defence" now for about 10 years. What I do is actually a reality based/scenario based self defence. Bascially I believe you need to find something similar. I am not wrting off any particular martial arts style but you have to be aware when studying a martial art that it could take years to actually become proficient at it. Plus these arts were invented many years ago and some aspects of them aren't necessarily practical in today's street environment.
If people love a particular style and want to study that, I think it's excellent. But it may not necessarily be the best thing to learn if you want to survive a street fight.
If you were to pick one "art" Krav Maga" (that you mentioned) which is obviously used by the Israeli military is very good, practical and efficient art. We have some ex-Israeli military guys that train with us (they now live in Oz and work for my mates security business) that have obviously done it and think it's pretty practial.
If she purely wants to learn something quickly that will give her half a chance if she finds herself in a "situation" then whatever it is has to be VERY practical. There needs to be only a small number of techniques that are gross motor skill actions - in other words nothing fancy (fine motor skill). Under stress as your heart rate goes up the first thing you lose is fine motor skills. So big gross actions not fiddly manipulation stuff is important.
The other crucial aspect is it MUST be scenario based. This is where you are actually put under pressure - in real life scenarios and have to use the stuff. There is just as much to learn here as the physical confrontation itself. Everything from the confident "talking" when being "interviewed" by attackers down to body positioning etc. This also helps you prepare mentally for where you are going to draw a line in the sand in an esculating confrontation and actually go physical.
Also have a look at their training facilities and the sort of gear they have, e.g. do they have "Fist Suits" or Tony Blauer "Highgear Suits" etc, this stuff is desirable as it enables you to train more realistically - i.e. actually hit people instead of pulling punches etc. (Actually what Tony Blauer teaches is excellent stuff, although he's based in the US).
Here is something I randomly googled which kinda sums up what I am trying to say about reality/scenario based stuff:
What Reality-Based Self-Defense Is and Is Not
According to Jim Wagner, "reality-based" is defined as training and survival skills based on modern conflict situations that practitioners are likely to encounter in their environments (their "reality").
Reality-based self-defense eliminates the unnecessary from martial arts, such as tradition, ceremony, formality, and forms/kata. Techniques are not fancy or impractical such as spinning kicks, high kicks to the head, complicated joint locks. It does not take years of training to be proficient.
Reality-based self-defense is also not mixed martial arts (MMA), which is a sport with defined rules and controlled environments.
This system is based on a few simple techniques based on gross motor skills, practiced in a realistic environment with actors and props. Adrenal stress is introduced. The focus is on the few skills that you are most likely to use in a conflict.
Reality-based is now very popular, as more people learn the difference between martial arts and self-defense. Jim Wagner coined the term, developed his system for law enforcement, military, and civilians. He popularized it through his monthly column in Black Belt magazine.
Components
Some common aspects of reality-based self-defense are:•Realistic Scenario-Based Training. Scenarios include attackers shouting or threatening you, confined spaces, uneven terrain, objects and debris on the ground, clothing you normally would wear, weapon props, and adrenal stress.
•3 Stages of Conflict – Pre-Conflict, Conflict, Post-Conflict.
◦Pre-conflict includes training, conflict cues, and indicators of danger.
◦Conflict includes the confrontation and response to attack.
◦Post-conflict includes escape, first aid, police contact, litigation, and learning from the experiences.•Graduated Response. Different levels of threat demand different levels of response. Do not use excessive force from a legal standpoint.
•Techniques. Hybrid of techniques from martial arts and other fighting disciplines. They are instinct based and simple, and can include striking, blocks, takedowns and throws, ground fighting, defending against holds, knives, guns, multiple assailants, and terrorism.
Re: Self-defence/martial arts for women - tips or links?
Thanks Aussie yes, that's the kinda thing she's looking for, I've been in fights myself and you just get tunnel vision and it's bloody SCARY, this lady might have to face junkies, so not skilled fighters, but I'd like to pass her on something helpful, and the stuff you're talking about sounds good.
Is there any key method or product you can suggest, she signed up to a load of s/d newsletters already I know and gets that formal MA isn't the best way, she just wants to know how to apply existing aggression (which she has lol, despite her job etc ) to the tossers who may decide to abuse her and her job?
Re: Self-defence/martial arts for women - tips or links?
I'm not too sure what's local for you in London that might offer a scenario based type of training. There doesn't appear to be any one singular method or organisation that I know of that does it on a global scale. There just seems to be individual organisations that I come accross in different countries/states etc that seem to teach broadly those concepts, albeit each in there own slightly different manner.
So all I can suggest is when you do check out any local places try and find ones that teach with a scenario/reality based type of style and concept.
Testing the stuff taught under stress, with the adrenal response etc is the best way to find out if you have learnt what they showed you and it helps to build confidence once you find the techniques actually working and coming out under stress. As you pointed out, when the real thing happens you get tunnel vision, you also get auditory exclusion (i.e. you can't hear things), you lose depth perception (that's why you see guys throwing punches when they're still way out of range of the opponent) plus your fine motor skills start to deteriote as your heart rate goes up etc. So a system that uses just a handful of techniques that build on natural flinch responses that are effective under stress would be ideal for what your girlfriend wants.
As I said I can't think of any one place to recommend but just keep these concepts in mind when checking out any places.
