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- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Sebastian Bachs Finest Moment
Yeah but if you look at the context, he paid a lot of his own money to assemble that band and record that album.
Was he disapointed that he promo'd the hell out of it and it didn't go massive? Sure. Maybe he didn't phrase that disapointment in the best possible way. But at the end of the day, he has to make a living out of being a musician, and it costs a lot to make an album that sounds good quality like Angel Down. Got to be depressing when you suspect that downloading ruined it for you. Now you might say he just isn't popular and it wasn't the downloading. I dunno, but excuse the guy for having some self respect and choosing to blame the download then.
But I deny this idea that he's shitty to fans just because he went on a rant about downloading. When i saw him live, he thanked everyone who bought the album (admittedly while plugging it to the rest - but what do u expect? Everyone does that). But more importantly. I met him in person and he took a LOT of time to show us some love. Hung out and chatted, signed records and did photos. He's good with his fans.
Re: Sebastian Bachs Finest Moment
He has peoples youtube accounts deleted. Thats not being good to fans. I've seen people bitch about this at Sludge. Its not bullshit.
Baz is one of those artists stuck in the past. Your example of him being nice to you in person shows this. He'll shake your hand in person, or give you an autograph. Post a concert clip on youtube? Say adios to your youtube account. Even funnier is people have posted clips of him saying onstage to upload the show on youtube!!
I don't support artists that pull these stunts. There's nothing wrong with youtube. Its free promotion. There's nothing wrong with fans getting a listen before they buy. In 2009, why should I buy an album I don't like?
Baz needs to embrace the 21st century formats. Leak new songs on youtube and/or his official site. He'll be shocked by how it interests people more than deleting traces of himself on the internet.
M.I.A. going more mainstream than she did with Arular can be traced back to when she leaked Bird Flu in early 2007, around six months before Kala's release. After its release, she posted a video of Sound of Kudoro, which was appearing on another band's album that hadn't even been released yet. Then out of the blue she leaked a demo of Hussel.
Rye Rye another good example. I have not talked to her through messages recently due to her personal problems, but she used to talk to me quite often. Would pretty much answer any question I had. If she hadn't canceled her tour, was willing to meet me after the show. Have considered doing an MIA site at some point in the future, and she even offered to contribute to a bio.
I don't care if her debut album winds up being a shit sandwich, I'm buying it.
I'll take that approach over bitching and deleting any day of the week, and that's why I own multiple copies of Kala on each format and ZERO copies of Angel Down. An artist wants me to buy their album? Two things need to occur...
Don't bitch at me
Give me a reason to buy it
Other artists pass this litmus test. Baz does not.
Re: Sebastian Bachs Finest Moment
I like this shit, slinger gave me it some years ago.
I have that same disc. Not a big fan of it, but Slinger did a great job putting the track list together as it gives you a taste of everything he has done up to that point.
Later I might try and find it and give it a spin.
Maybe not. 
Re: Sebastian Bachs Finest Moment
Got to be depressing when you suspect that downloading ruined it for you. Now you might say he just isn't popular and it wasn't the downloading. I dunno, but excuse the guy for having some self respect and choosing to blame the download then.
To me, the problem lies in that Bach hasn't come to grips with where he is in his career. I doubt his album sold any less than the last Warrant, Slaughter, LA Guns, Firehouse, etc albums did.
Actually it probably sold quite a bit more based on Axl being on it if nothing else.
He sees himself as above his peers, but fact of the matter is, he's not looked at as anything other than a guy from a second or third tier 80's band by most of the public.
Bitching about/to the people who are interested isn't going to keep or raise their interest.
Re: Sebastian Bachs Finest Moment
monkeychow wrote:Got to be depressing when you suspect that downloading ruined it for you. Now you might say he just isn't popular and it wasn't the downloading. I dunno, but excuse the guy for having some self respect and choosing to blame the download then.
To me, the problem lies in that Bach hasn't come to grips with where he is in his career. I doubt his album sold any less than the last Warrant, Slaughter, LA Guns, Firehouse, etc albums did.
Actually it probably sold quite a bit more based on Axl being on it if nothing else.
He sees himself as above his peers, but fact of the matter is, he's not looked at as anything other than a guy from a second or third tier 80's band by most of the public.
Bitching about/to the people who are interested isn't going to keep or raise their interest.
Even at that ... that's how he's perceived in America. I can tell ya 4 people n my country bought Angel down and 3 of them are on this board...
Re: Sebastian Bachs Finest Moment
Without getting mean, I just want to throw my support behind James, Russ, & Jorge's statements about Baz's issues.
Axl is a good example. The guy is perceived to be anti-fan and an asshole. But the dude never really made a big deal of the leaks, when he could've. He embraced playing the newly leaked songs live, when he didn't have to. He's left YouTube stuff alone, as well as countless stuff on GN'R message boards for years, when he was well aware of it. He joked about the downloadin' mother fuckers, but in a "bustin' balls" sort of way, and laughed about it. He put CD up on GNR's MySpace days before it's release, in full stream, knowing it'd be ripped and put on torrent sites, and they still haven't taken it down. And despite public perception, the label went after Kevin Skewrl, not the band, and they didn't pursue MSL, even though they could've probably at least stayed a thorn in his ass, and chose not to.
Despite all of the things he's claimed of being behind the times, which he is on ALOT, being cool about how the internet works (at least in 2009), he's pretty cool about for the most part.
When CD tanked, and he referenced the leaks, he didn't dwell on it, or blame anybody, which also speaks professionalism on his part.
Baz, and I say this in the nicest way possible, is an annoying douche. He thinks he's Axl Rose, when in fact he's a Mark Slaughter. He makes fun of crowd sizes as being too small even to the people that paid (yes, I was at one of those shows). He blames internet downloading as the reason his album didn't sell, when in fact, maybe, just maybe, it was just really fucking bad, and no one wanted it. Seriously... Angel Down ain't that good. Love Is A Bitchslap & By Your Side are the only significant songs on the album, and By Your Side just sounds like I Remember You with a little fresh ketchup thrown on top. Even the other Axl tracks fucking suck.
And no one is even mentioning, how he kept his band jobless, while he went off to do reality shows and country albums, and when they complained, they were fired.
I'm certaintly one of those people that don't let personal issues, get in the way of enjoying the music. But when it's directed AT fans, that's when the whole thing changes, and I start to not like you, and with good reason.
I like Skid Row & Slave To The Grind. Everything else, and everything in the future, he can shove up his ass. All up in his ass.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Sebastian Bachs Finest Moment
Baz is one of those artists stuck in the past. Your example of him being nice to you in person shows this. He'll shake your hand in person, or give you an autograph. Post a concert clip on youtube? Say adios to your youtube account.
Well this is going to be one of those issues we don't agree on I suspect.
What baz is doing is protecting his own intellectual property. At a fundemental level when it comes down to it, the artists have the right to control how their works are used. If he doesn't want live clips of his songs played online, or if he doesn't want me to make a video of me washing my dogs butt to "slave to the grind" then he has the right to make sure that doesn't happen.
The fact that youtube is free promotion or whatever isn't really the point. He owns those rights and if he chooses to refuse free promotion or do other things we see as silly that's his right as the artist. That many artists choose to sacrifice their rights also isn't relevant. Many people choose to donate their old clothes to charity. Does this mean I can come and take your old clothes without your permission and donate them? If you stoped me, is it a defence to say that its stupid that you don't want your old clothes given away when everyone would think you're awesome for doing it?
At the end of the day we live in a society where artistic works are protected by copyright and the holders of that are given a bunch of exclusive rights. One of which is this type of usage. If you think it's wrong or outdated...write to someone at congress or whatever...don't give artists a hard time for simply keeping ownership of their own products.
Baz, and I say this in the nicest way possible, is an annoying douche. He thinks he's Axl Rose, when in fact he's a Mark Slaughter.
I don't think that's true at all. Several times in interviews he's expressed his amazment that someone of Axl's fame would peform on his album, and he clearly gets excited whenever he's around Axl or might be. Check out on eddie trunk. Baz is super excited to be back in contact with Axl. There's loads of times he talks about how amazing axl's voice or screams are. It's obvious he admires GNR and looks up to Axl, and that's not consistant with someone who felt he was on par with Axl.
He blames internet downloading as the reason his album didn't sell, when in fact, maybe, just maybe, it was just really fucking bad, and no one wanted it. Seriously... Angel Down ain't that good. Love Is A Bitchslap & By Your Side are the only significant songs on the album, and By Your Side just sounds like I Remember You with a little fresh ketchup thrown on top. Even the other Axl tracks fucking suck.
Well that's your opinion. It's not mine. I think axl sounds amazing on the aerosmith cover. And stuck inside has a cool heavy riff. American metalhead is a great fun song, especially the live versions, sort of an old school anthem type track. There's a lot of great songs on the album to me. Sure I can see that by your side is reminisant of Skid row...but I really like it...and being like the old stuff isn't a bad thing....personally I like it when artists do the type of music that made them famous and they florish in. I know Zakk wyld is good on paino, but i don't care, I want to see him ripp the shit out of a guitar. For all i know Baz might do a killer spoken word album, don't care - I wan't to hear him sing and scream like on Slave to the Grind. To me angel down was baz doing what he does well. And i'll gladly buy some more of it.
And no one is even mentioning, how he kept his band jobless, while he went off to do reality shows and country albums, and when they complained, they were fired.
Well there's two sides to that story. The band was charging him to hang out, to record, to write new songs, to do promo, to tour. to practise for a tour. he had to pay them money to do anything at all associated with being in a band. Maybe he was doing some TV stuff to finance the amount of money it would cost to pay a guy to drive over and show you the new guitar riffs he's written? He's asked for new band members when he's realised he doesn't have enough money to support 5 guys all by himself. When it went 2 years without anyone suggesting a new song. When he had to cancel shows because he couldnt afford to reherse (that's not a viable situation) and when his band didn't return his calls multiple times in a row. Sounds reasonable to me.
Re: Sebastian Bachs Finest Moment
Well this is going to be one of those issues we don't agree on I suspect.
What baz is doing is protecting his own intellectual property. At a fundemental level when it comes down to it, the artists have the right to control how their works are used. If he doesn't want live clips of his songs played online, or if he doesn't want me to make a video of me washing my dogs butt to "slave to the grind" then he has the right to make sure that doesn't happen.
The fact that youtube is free promotion or whatever isn't really the point. He owns those rights and if he chooses to refuse free promotion or do other things we see as silly that's his right as the artist. That many artists choose to sacrifice their rights also isn't relevant. Many people choose to donate their old clothes to charity. Does this mean I can come and take your old clothes without your permission and donate them? If you stoped me, is it a defence to say that its stupid that you don't want your old clothes given away when everyone would think you're awesome for doing it?
At the end of the day we live in a society where artistic works are protected by copyright and the holders of that are given a bunch of exclusive rights. One of which is this type of usage. If you think it's wrong or outdated...write to someone at congress or whatever...don't give artists a hard time for simply keeping ownership of their own products.
You are right. He is perfectly within his right to protect his propety.
But you're wrong in James RIGHT to give him a hard time. Baz is the businessman and James is the consumer.
The consumer disagrees with how the businessman conducts his business. So he complains, or boycotts, which is perfectly within his own right, and you either disagree with it (you) or agree with it (me), but that's what makes a horse race.
In 2009, artists are under intense scruntiny to either "get with the times", and to embrace a more limited role in ownership of music. Artists like Baz are choosing to fight it tooth and nail, and that's fine, he's perfectly fine to do that... but I don't want to hear HIM complain when he's doing dishes at Geno's Italian.
I don't think that's true at all. Several times in interviews he's expressed his amazment that someone of Axl's fame would peform on his album, and he clearly gets excited whenever he's around Axl or might be. Check out on eddie trunk. Baz is super excited to be back in contact with Axl. There's loads of times he talks about how amazing axl's voice or screams are. It's obvious he admires GNR and looks up to Axl, and that's not consistant with someone who felt he was on par with Axl.
Of course he's humbled by Axl Rose. But outside of Axl's world, on his own, he conducts himself in Axl's own manner, and it's gotten worse since Axl befriended him.
He can't pull it off. He's not big enough.
I guess what i'm saying is, Axl is a diva. He gets away with it, because he's Axl Rose. People aren't gonna put up with a Sebastian Bach being a diva, but he doesn't know that apparently.
Well that's your opinion. It's not mine. I think axl sounds amazing on the aerosmith cover. And stuck inside has a cool heavy riff. American metalhead is a great fun song, especially the live versions, sort of an old school anthem type track. There's a lot of great songs on the album to me. Sure I can see that by your side is reminisant of Skid row...but I really like it...and being like the old stuff isn't a bad thing....personally I like it when artists do the type of music that made them famous and they florish in. I know Zakk wyld is good on paino, but i don't care, I want to see him ripp the shit out of a guitar. For all i know Baz might do a killer spoken word album, don't care - I wan't to hear him sing and scream like on Slave to the Grind. To me angel down was baz doing what he does well. And i'll gladly buy some more of it
Axl's vocals on Back In The Saddle are damn good, especially for those that are fans of the Use Your Illusion-era voice. Those vocals almost could pass for 1991-Axl.
Everything else around Axl is what's bad. The instrumentals are mediocre on their absolute best day (I personally think they're weak), and Baz doesn't bring anything all that interesting to the song.
In fairness, I guess I should take this time to say that my opinion of Back In The Saddle (Aerosmith's) has degraded over time.
I would be interested in hearing Axl do a cover of Back In The Saddle with the new Guns.
Well there's two sides to that story. The band was charging him to hang out, to record, to write new songs, to do promo, to tour. to practise for a tour. he had to pay them money to do anything at all associated with being in a band. Maybe he was doing some TV stuff to finance the amount of money it would cost to pay a guy to drive over and show you the new guitar riffs he's written? He's asked for new band members when he's realised he doesn't have enough money to support 5 guys all by himself. When it went 2 years without anyone suggesting a new song. When he had to cancel shows because he couldnt afford to reherse (that's not a viable situation) and when his band didn't return his calls multiple times in a row. Sounds reasonable to me.
Read between the lines. Absolute NOBODIES intentionally are difficult with the goose that lays the golden egg (Baz), just cause? I don't believe an ounce of Baz's story, at least the way he puts it. I believe the band did exactly that, but not in Baz's context.
They have to eat too, and need to be in an active band. It's not a "band". It's not [insert band name] featuring Sebastian Bach on vocals. It's the Sebastian Bach band. It's Baz solo. It's HIS job to come up with songs. It's HIS job to come up with that stuff. He surrounded himself by hired musicians, yet scratched his head when they wanted money. They're session players. It's what they do for a living. They got to eat too.
Bottom line, is this leads me back to my "Baz thinks he's Axl" theory. Baz operated his solo act like he was Axl Rose. The difference is, he doesn't have the resources or name power to keep those players under contract for an extended period of time.
If Baz would just say that, i'd respect him. But instead he wants to run down the players, and trash them for trying to make a living the only way he would allow them. That's why I think he's a self-absorbed douche.
The other thing is, Baz probably relied on those guys in HIS solo act to bring material to the table, because Baz doesn't have the talent to do it himself. Back in Skid Row, he had Rachel Bolan & Snake Sabo to do all that work for him. All he had to do was come in and record vocals. Now he bounces around with these solo acts under his name, yet wants the contract players to come up with the material. Totally different presentation than Axl Rose, who has his contract players as contractual members of the band entity "Guns N' Roses". They know walking in, they are in a 'band' and are expected to contribute as such.
Baz needs to realize he's a session vocalist, and always has been. He needs to be in someone else's act, not solo.
Re: Sebastian Bachs Finest Moment
The fact that youtube is free promotion or whatever isn't really the point. He owns those rights
No he doesn't. If I go to a concert and record a few minutes of a song on a cellphone, the artist does not own that clip. I do. If you think the artist owns that clip, than you must also think the venue owns it, the promoter owns it, and the chick who sold me a coke owns it. How about the girls dancing near the stage? Maybe they own the clips as well since they are being recorded.
Its stances like yours that embolden artists like Baz. If someone wanted to waste money and time taking one of these relics to court over this shit, they'd win.
Many people choose to donate their old clothes to charity. Does this mean I can come and take your old clothes without your permission and donate them? If you stoped me, is it a defence to say that its stupid that you don't want your old clothes given away when everyone would think you're awesome for doing it?
That's not even close to being the same thing.
If you think it's wrong or outdated...write to someone at congress or whatever...don't give artists a hard time for simply keeping ownership of their own products.
I don't need to write to Congress about something I am correct on. It is my choice as a music fan to boycott this guy's garbage and not support his stance of deleting fan vids and fan accounts on youtube. It is my choice as a music fan to support artists that don't do that. I am not in the minority. Its why Baz will never sell a decent amount of albums, and other artists will continue riding the wave of success in the 21st century.
