You are not logged in. Please register or login.
- Topics: Active | Unanswered
Re: Michael Jackson's This Is It Discussion
From TMZ:
Jackson Death Certificate
Posted Jul 7th 2009 5:13PM by TMZ Staff
We've obtained a copy of Michael Jackson's death certificate. On cause of death, it says "deferred."
It does say Forest Lawn Cemetery was a "temporary" disposition of the body. As we first reported the body will not go back to Forest Lawn. Final burial is pending at an unknown location.
Jackson's occupation is listed as "musician." The type of business is "entertainment." Years in occupation -- 45.
As for race, the word "black" is written.
The informant -- the person who gave the information for the death certificate -- is listed as La Toya Jackson.
The place of residence is not listed as the Holmby Hills home -- rather, it's listed as his parents' home in Encino.
See James? He's even filling out his own info for the death certificate. 
Re: Michael Jackson's This Is It Discussion
I've heard a LOT of people say they started crying when his daughter spoke. But all I really thought when I heard that she did (I didn't see it) was-
This was a memorial service for a guy who kept his kids faces hidden most of the time. Would this be what he wanted?
Also, I heard this as a joke earlier, but the more I think about it, I legitimately want to know... Were the concession stands in the Staples Center open today?
- Gunslinger
- Rep: 88
Re: Michael Jackson's This Is It Discussion
Seriously, the fact that anyone even considers his innocence shows how fucked up society is general when it comes to celebrities. If he was some random middle aged man that liked to target boys in a specific age range to sleep in his bed no one would ever buy the nonsense that he thinks he is Peter Pan.
Before I say anything else I want to say that I do NOT know if the guy is guilty of these things he's been accused of or if he is not. I've heard opposing accounts of the "facts" over and over but nothing concrete has surfaced to make me believe with certainty that he was guilty OR that he wasn't...I DON'T know.
You say if he was a "random middle-aged man", well the fact is he was hardly "random". The guy has displayed that he has the mind of a child over and over LONG before the child abuse allegations. Of course this continued throughout his life. What "random middle-aged man" would sink his entire fortune into a place he called Neverland?
I sometimes myself see "most people" being influenced by the media and celebrities getting a different set of rules than the rest of us. I see it quite often. However with wisdom comes truth. If you ONLY see this view of things then you become tainted in your thinking. It is easy to get caught in that trap, I've did it myself and I believe you are doing the same now. I say this because you are hell-bent on believing guilt regardless of just as much "proof" suggesting innoncence.
One accuser was able to accurately describe his genitals and he *immediately* settled once that came out.
I have heard many times this is totally false and if you use common sense it most likely is false. Unless Jackson was hung like a horse, extremely small or had some sort of weird warts or scars what could someone describe that was so unusual? lol
As far as your Jason Francia example I have read MANY times that this was a falsified report produced by the maid who was looking for cash from the National Enquirer. Here's one link talking about this, there are several others you can look up for yourself. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,151665,00.html
My whole point here is NOT to give you grief but to just to get you to see BOTH sides. It is no better to deem someone guilty without proof than it is to proclaim how "fucked up society is in general" because someone believes he is innocent.
I don't know if he is guilty or innocent with certainty and probably never will. He will be judged in a higher court soon and that is enough.
During my lifetime I will hear BOTH sides with an open ear until something concrete surfaces.
Until then...RIP Michael and thanks for the great music.
Re: Michael Jackson's This Is It Discussion
Before I say anything else I want to say that I do NOT know if the guy is guilty of these things he's been accused of or if he is not. I've heard opposing accounts of the "facts" over and over but nothing concrete has surfaced to make me believe with certainty that he was guilty OR that he wasn't...I DON'T know.
You say if he was a "random middle-aged man", well the fact is he was hardly "random". The guy has displayed that he has the mind of a child over and over LONG before the child abuse allegations. Of course this continued throughout his life. What "random middle-aged man" would sink his entire fortune into a place he called Neverland?
.
I think your first paragraph is the way most people should look at the whole thing, but most people don't. This sentence- "I've heard opposing accounts of the "facts" over and over but nothing concrete has surfaced to make me believe with certainty that he was guilty OR that he wasn't", basically says it all.
As for the second paragraph...
Well imagine a "random middle-aged man" had "displayed that he has the mind of a child over and over" and sunk the moderate amount of money that he did have into a playhouse that he set up in his yard and called Neverland. This guy also liked to spend the night in the same bed with the young boys that came over to play at his playhouse...
His throat would be slit within a month.
- Gunslinger
- Rep: 88
Re: Michael Jackson's This Is It Discussion
Well imagine a "random middle-aged man" had "displayed that he has the mind of a child over and over" and sunk the moderate amount of money that he did have into a playhouse that he set up in his yard and called Neverland. This guy also liked to spend the night in the same bed with the young boys that came over to play at his playhouse...
His throat would be slit within a month.
Agreed, BUT we wouldn't have the insight of this "random middle-aged man's" life that we have with Michael. Very public interviews and documentaries (some that we later find were edited to favor guilt), the very vocal confessions about his childhood and us SEEING with our own eyes how he grew up. What I mean is him growing up in the spotlight and the obvious enforced work ethic he had, even as a child obviously robbing him of any "normal" childhood.
Again, I am not by any means saying this makes him innocent I'm just saying (imo) there is almost an exact equal amount of evidence favoring guilt or innocence. I wouldn't feel comfortable in proclaiming a verdict either way as of now.
Re: Michael Jackson's This Is It Discussion
jorge76 wrote:Well imagine a "random middle-aged man" had "displayed that he has the mind of a child over and over" and sunk the moderate amount of money that he did have into a playhouse that he set up in his yard and called Neverland. This guy also liked to spend the night in the same bed with the young boys that came over to play at his playhouse...
His throat would be slit within a month.
Agreed, BUT we wouldn't have the insight of this "random middle-aged man's" life that we have with Michael. Very public interviews (some that we later find were edited to favor guilt), the very vocal confessions about his childhood and us SEEING with our own eyes how he grew up. What I mean is him growing up in the spotlight and the obvious enforced work ethic he had, even as a child obviously robbing him of any "normal" childhood.
Again, I am not by any means saying this makes him innocent I'm just saying (imo) there is almost an exact equal amount of evidence favoring guilt or innocence. I wouldn't feel comfortable in proclaiming a verdict either way as of now.
I see what you're saying, but I don't think many people would care to gain the insight into that person's life, or care after they did. There were a ton of people who were abused in their childhood, or had to start working to help support the family (moreso a generation or so ago than lately) at a very young age.
Excuses won't get made for them because they were bagging groceries and helping around the house or something while their friends got to be kids instead of making hit albums.
This is an odd comparison, but I saw something in a Mad Magazine when I was in Jr High that really stuck with me(but that was a long time ago, so bear with me here).
When you're a normal guy and live in filth, you're a lazy slob, but when you become a rich artist, you're just quirky and it's just how you work.
Again, I am not by any means saying this makes him innocent I'm just saying (imo) there is almost an exact equal amount of evidence favoring guilt or innocence. I wouldn't feel comfortable in proclaiming a verdict either way as of now.
Even after everything I just said. I still agree with this.
Re: Michael Jackson's This Is It Discussion
Acquiesce, you're going to see him guilty no matter what, and that's your right, dude, and I respect it, even though I disagree completely. And I really didn't want to get into this debate, I just wanted to point out some facts I know that you have wrong -- not trying to sway your opinion, because you're going to think what you think anyway, no matter what... But anyway:
The book was from a fan. It had an inscription from the fan who sent it to him and it wasn't in his collection. It was also along the lines of a Jock Sturges book and isn't anything people would be offended over. Only the Jesus freaks have a real problem with it. Again, its art, its controversial art in some circles for sure, but nothing horrible or pornographic.
I have to say, I hate Bill O'Reilly with a passion. I loathe him. But I'm not faulting him or accussing him of truly sexually harrassing that woman just because he settled with her. Settling a case like that isn't just for the benefit of your family, or because the humiliation, but constantly having it hanging it over your head when you're fighting it takes a huge toll on you. If you have ever been part of a law suit, you'll know why most court cases end in settlement because of the strain it causes. It is not an admission of guilt. People are paying out just to end it. Really, I've seen what lawsuits do to people and families. Its the one thing I understand the most about Axl and what it did to him.
Really, the 30 night thing comes down to who you believe. And, imo, it had less to do with bad parenting and more with manipulation by the parent(s). ie: wanting to "adopt" Michael and planning to build a second wing to their house strikes me as someone trying to mess with Michael's head. The father was a very shrewed man.
He did testify. You're right. But the credibility was shot when he told police repeatedly Michael didn't do anything to him, then his mother immediately turned around, got lawyers to sue and sold her story to Hard Copy.
The only thing that was proven was that the PI got JC's father (on tape! ) talking about the extortion deal. And the people JC told the story to were the ones who said that's how his father got him to remember... He gave him the sedative after pulling the kids tooth. He was a dentist and wannabe screenwriter.
Maureen Orth has been biased in most of her stories, not just MJ. It was the same coverage the tabloids did, by using unamed sources that fit their story angles without getting them substantiated, and having a very scrutinized, and really disgusting, relationship with the DA's office. I could go on forever about this part, but I'm not going to. My head would explode
This is basically what I have to say about that whole subject.
Michael's little girl really made me choke up today. No doubt the media are going to play that clip into the ground 
Re: Michael Jackson's This Is It Discussion
Well, it's all about over. Hard to believe, but I guess life rocks you off your feet every now & then.
Final thoughts, died too young, a great entertainer & musical talent, and in reading up on the events I don't think he ever sexually molested kids, but it is fucking wierd to sleep with them at his age. I think he really needed to see a shrink. I guess with his fame & fortune, why?? He's got money, a career, ppl felt there's no reason for him to, and no one could force him into it. Gotta be strange making the money he made, I wonder what his royalties paid out per day. Think about it, this isn't Bill Gates or the Google people needing to run a company. He's not a famous actor needing to churn out work every 2 or 3 years for a big payday or a star, athlete. He wakes up, and without doing anything makes about a million dollars a day, $30 million a month (approx). Without touring, performing, writing etc...
I am glad I got back into his stuff, and found the true talent within it. I no longer look at it as cheesy pop. I haven't listened to my Thriller cassette in probably 15-20 years, and even then it was probably as a joke. I watched the Bad video the other night, I had completely forgotten it was a 12 minute video. Pretty cool video actually. I like how it borrows from West Side Story, Grease etc with the tough guys out dancing the others (similar to Beat It), pretty amusing, yet cool in some fantasy land. He truly was THE King Of Pop, no doubts. We have about 35 pages of threads on him & his death now, I'd be hard pressed to think there's really anyone else's death who could trigger such a response on this Guns N Roses message board, original GnR members aside. If you told me this 2 weeks ago, I would have laughed in your face & put it more at 7-8 pages. One last thing, I always remember seeing on TV & the news about older movie stars, when they died or mentioned them somehow, maybe my parents would talk, they'd always say how Fred Estaire or Gene Kelly were such magnificent dancers, and I never got it. So what! Who cares?! But I think I've come to see it, I don't care about dancing, it's a talent I'm sure, but I don't view it like I view great guitarists, or even actors, but when I'm older, and I hear people talking about the great dancers in life, I'm sure I'll be the old guy claiming Michael Jackson was the greatest I ever saw.
Re: Michael Jackson's This Is It Discussion
Before I say anything else I want to say that I do NOT know if the guy is guilty of these things he's been accused of or if he is not. I've heard opposing accounts of the "facts" over and over but nothing concrete has surfaced to make me believe with certainty that he was guilty OR that he wasn't...I DON'T know.
I completely respect this position and I do understand where you are coming from, but I can never wrap my head around those who just write him off as a simple harmless man who was a little bit odd. To me there is just too much pointing towards guilt to simple write it all off as being a coincidence. When you have to explain so much away it defies common sense and logic. If he was a gas station attendant rather than a star, people wouldn't give him the same benefit of the doubt. Of course, no parent in their right mind would have let their child sleep with MJ the gas station attendant like they did with MJ the musical icon in the first place.
You say if he was a "random middle-aged man", well the fact is he was hardly "random". The guy has displayed that he has the mind of a child over and over LONG before the child abuse allegations. Of course this continued throughout his life. What "random middle-aged man" would sink his entire fortune into a place he called Neverland?
Sure, he was hardly random, but to me this behavior fits the textbook definition of a pedophile. Pedophiles who like to befriend and "groom" their victims often act like big children at heart to make it easier for children to relate to them and feel at ease with them . They often create domains that are appealing to children so the children would want to hang around. MJ just happened to have a fortune to create a larger scaled child fantasy land.
I have heard many times this is totally false and if you use common sense it most likely is false. Unless Jackson was hung like a horse, extremely small or had some sort of weird warts or scars what could someone describe that was so unusual? lol
He had a weird discoloration there because of a skin condition he had. So that was unusual and the kid was accurately able to describe it.
As far as your Jason Francia example I have read MANY times that this was a falsified report produced by the maid who was looking for cash from the National Enquirer. Here's one link talking about this, there are several others you can look up for yourself.
Hey, I don't deny that his mother was sketchy. I believe every parent involved with this was sketchy, but was their behavior was more sketchy than MJ's? Absolutely not. At best his behavior was highly inappropriate and most people engaged in such behavior would sound off the alarm bells. Personally I believe that some of the parents involved like the maid and JC's parents did see dollar signs when they realized what happened to their kids, but I don't believe it was totally made up. I can see why people have a hard time believing them, but like I said in a previous post, MJ has every reason to lie, so I am not sure what makes him more credible over anyone else.
Agreed, BUT we wouldn't have the insight of this "random middle-aged man's" life that we have with Michael. Very public interviews and documentaries (some that we later find were edited to favor guilt), the very vocal confessions about his childhood and us SEEING with our own eyes how he grew up. What I mean is him growing up in the spotlight and the obvious enforced work ethic he had, even as a child obviously robbing him of any "normal" childhood.
That's true, but he's hardly the first child star, and while many of them do end up messed up on drugs, he's the only one to end up sleeping in bed with boys in a supposed attempt to try to relive his childhood. Honestly, I do believe he was emotionally stunted on some level, but many pedophiles are attracted to children because their sexual development was stunted at a certain point in their life. So to me this can easily be argued as pointing to his guilt just as much as people use it to point towards his innocence. Many pedophiles were also abused at some point in their life so again this can point towards guilt as much as it does innocence.
Re: Michael Jackson's This Is It Discussion
well lets put it this way....Slash was a aquaintence and a musical collaborator with MJ....and he still said he wouldnt let Jackson hold his kids
Meanwhile, former Guns N' Roses guitarist Slash has confessed he refused to let Jackson - who was cleared of child abuse charges in 2005 - hold his son when they met in London.
