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Re: Michael Jackson's This Is It Discussion
Agreed. I was actually thinking more about that Letterman appearence, and some of the footage of AIC's live shows at the time. Layne could barely move, and slowly shuffled about.
But the sad thing about it was.... that voice was still there, and haunting and as kick ass at it ever was.
Back to Jackson...
I watched the "counter" Michael Jackson documentary from Fox, hosted by Maury Povich, as well as the 'final' BBC doc.
The "Footage You Were Never Mean't To See" doc, is a mixed bag of bullcrap, and 100% truth. The documentary does a good job at exposing Bashir to be the opportunistic leech journalist that he was. Several times he consoles Jackson, and intentionally misleads him, and tries to be his friend, the one who's going to expose his real story, and yet the Living With Michael Jackson documentary basically was edited to a point to make Michael look like a monster. Bashir also contridicts himself in his unreleased statements, versus the final documentary. Jackson however doesn't save himself much either. The "I would slit my wrists before hurting a child" statement is convincing, but not much is really changed from the Bashir interview, other than a further explanation of the zoo trip in Germany (I believe).
Bottom line, Michael you should've just waited. But from what i'm seeing, Jackson was as addicted to all of the attention, and fortune, and fame bullshit, as he claimed was a burden. Once again I come back to his kids and other children seeming like toys to him.
Jackson doesn't redeem himself from the whole "mother" situation. The kids seemed just like toys, bought and paid for, by Jackson. Nothing more, and that's why he struggled with the question.
Debbie Rowe, who "just couldn't stand the lies", came across the same way as I originally remembered. An opportunistic bullshitter, without a thread of credibility, speaking in defense of Jackson, because he paid her light bill. These two NEVER had a sexual relationship.
Debbie Rowe is the Beta Lebeis of the Jackson camp.
Now, on to the 'final' BBC doc. This documentary had very little truth in it imo, and didn't really bring as much to the table, as wasn't already there. Diane Diamond, or whatever her name is, is totally not credible and full of shit imo. She might be saying SOME truthful things, but her inflection and presentation comes across of a woman who hates Jackson for whatever reason, and wants to see him fry, even if he's innocent. She came across as a narcissistic bitch.
The other two however, the childhood friend and the former publicist (?), I believed alot more. Their stories make more sense, and almost present a pretty realistic idea of Jackson. That originally Jackson's "Wacko Jacko" stuff was actually just a persona, P.T. Barnum-style, fed to the media, in order to create a mythic legend about Jackson. However it seems at some point Jackson bought in to his own legend, and got lost in his own illusion, for which he never returned. Jackson in his later years seemed to surround himself by a ton of "yes men", which led to the firing of the publicist after nearly 20 years. Jackson also tried to cut him out of his severance and vacation pay.
I also took the investigator's claims with a grain of salt. I think the painting of Jackson as Darth Vadar of little boys, was just too strong and too much, lessening it's possible validity imo.
I do think it got one thing right. That Jackson, after the Jordan Chandler incident, intentionally surrounded himself by children as a way of rubbing it in the world's face that you will not stop him. I do not think it was because of child molestation, but more Jackson's own ego of saying, "I'm Michael Jackson, i'll do what I want".
The alarms for Jackson's room, imo, do not equate to Jackson's child molestation allegations, but in fact tie in to Lisa Marie's claims of Jackson's fear of how he looked imo. I think Jackson wanted those alarms in order to hide himself, or change his appearence quickly, because let's face it... his face... he looked like a living zombie. The alarm also could be for Jackson to hide drugs.
Now, the ONE damning thing i've seen in all of this, and the one major smoking gun, is... the secret hideaway room for kids in Jackson's bedroom. That is CLASSIC serial rapist. That is the one haunting thing i've seen that truely goes against Jackson. But Jordan Chandler & Gavin Arvizo and their families, come across as opportunistic, money hungry people, and Jackson came across more as a big brother with children he saw no love in their family, than he did a predator, imo.
And that's the rest of the story.
Paul Harvey - good day 
Re: Michael Jackson's This Is It Discussion
EDIT:
I'm editting this because I think I came off very defensive in this post, mostly because I had to do a lot of research about this topic once. So, no offense meant, bro.
This also basically comes down to who you believe in the Mj case, and I believe him, and I refuse to accept the opinions of books and documentaries from people who have a vested interest in making Michael a monster. And they do slant their work to serve that purpose. Even Bashir's had some slimy editting moments, even though Michael looked really bad in it with no help from Bashir... And like a famous documentary filmmaker once said, they can make you think whatever they want. Because they have an editting room.
EDIT AGAIN: I just read Axlin's post and I pretty much agree with everything he said, and he said it much better than I did.
My last point on the issue with your post is this:
You tried painting the father as a con man and used comments from the mother to help prove that point. She clearly had financial motivation as well(and benefited from it WHILE the supposed abuse was occurring), so if you're gonna assassinate the character of one, you need to aim your sights on both.
I should have never added what the mother said, because it had nothing to do with why I think it was all an extortion attempt. I added it on there as a last point. If her character is an issue, then my apologies, forget it. The fact is none of what I mentioned came from her. The father did get the kid to "remember" the abuse after pulling his tooth and giving him a sedative that psychiatrists have said is known for being used to coerce people and leaves them vulnerable to suggestion. He WAS caught on tape talking about extorting Michael and not caring what affect this would have on his son, caring only about the money. And the boys descriptions of Michael's genitals were wrong. The DA said there were similarities because he described the skin on Michael's body as being splotchy, which isn't exactly a home run.
And I know what you're quoting very well...
In a study of 1,713 people arrested for the possession of child pornography in a 1-year period, the possessors ran the gamut in terms of income, education level, marital status, and age. Virtually all of those who were arrested were men, 91% were white, and most were unmarried at the time of their crime, either because they had never married (41%) or because they were separated, divorced, or widowed (21%).
Forty percent (40%) of those arrested were “dual offenders,” who sexually victimized children and possessed child pornography, with both crimes discovered in the same investigation. An additional 15% were dual offenders who attempted to sexually victimize children by soliciting undercover investigators who posed online as minors.
Here's that wiki link
Child pornography is a multi-billion dollar industry and among the fastest growing criminal segments on the Internet, according to the USA The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children (NCMEC), the International Centre for Missing & Exploited Children (ICMEC) and other international sources.[10][11][12][13][14][15][16] New technology such as inexpensive digital cameras and Internet distribution has made it easier than ever before to produce and distribute child pornography. The producers of child pornography try to avoid prosecution by distributing their material across national borders, though this issue is increasingly being addressed with regular arrests of suspects from a number of countries occurring over the last few years.[9][10]
Child pornography is viewed and collected by pedophiles for a variety of purposes, ranging from private sexual uses, trading with other pedophiles, preparing children for sexual abuse as part of the process known as "child grooming", or enticement leading to entrapment for sexual exploitation such as production of new child pornography or child prostitution.[17][18][19]
You still don't think child porn is easy to find?
http://www.antichildporn.org/whiteppr.htm
Nevermind all of that, this is what I'm talking about. From a text for Law Enforcement:
Sex Offenders
Characteristics
Long-Term and Persistent Pattern of Behavior
Begins pattern in early adolescence
Commits multiple offenses
Makes ritual- or need-driven mistakes
Specific Sexual Interests
Focuses on defined sexual interests and victim characteristics
Evaluates experiences
Is quick to use modern technology (e.g., computer, video) for sexual needs and purposes
Collects paraphernalia (i.e., souvenirs, videotapes)
Records fantasies
Acts to turn fantasy into reality
Hopefully there is no offense taken on this post, james, or me coming across as a dick.
Re: Michael Jackson's This Is It Discussion
The other two however, the childhood friend and the former publicist (?), I believed alot more. Their stories make more sense, and almost present a pretty realistic idea of Jackson. That originally Jackson's "Wacko Jacko" stuff was actually just a persona, P.T. Barnum-style, fed to the media, in order to create a mythic legend about Jackson. However it seems at some point Jackson bought in to his own legend, and got lost in his own illusion, for which he never returned. Jackson in his later years seemed to surround himself by a ton of "yes men", which led to the firing of the publicist after nearly 20 years. Jackson also tried to cut him out of his severance and vacation pay.
I also took the investigator's claims with a grain of salt. I think the painting of Jackson as Darth Vadar of little boys, was just too strong and too much, lessening it's possible validity imo.
Those two figures were the strong points of the documentary to me. The friend, J. Randy Taraborelli, wrote a 625 page book on Jackson in 1991 which I borrowed from the library. I think both Diamond and the investigation seemed sleazy, especially Diamond who used to host A Current Affair, a tabloid show in the 1990s.
The smoking gun/ shocking revelation for me was when they spoke to the ex-publicist Bob Jones about the World Music Awards in Monaco in 1993. The excerpt where they said only Michael and Chandler stayed in the room during the entire day due to flu like symptoms was somewhat damming. The publicist didn't have a good explanation of that day. I think that he suspected there was something going on between the two by the way of his skeptical answers to some of the questions. He also provided the detail of Chandler sitting on MJ's lap while Jackson was seated next to Prince Albert which bolsters his claim.
Re: Michael Jackson's This Is It Discussion
He doesn't look bad, but he is clearly very very thin.
That Jackson simply dumps the kids when they grow older..well..might be true, but I know of one case which says something else. Some Norwegian kid got to know Jackson back in the early 90's and MJ invited him and his mom to join him on tour. The kid is like...20 now but MJ and him kept in touch and spoke a lot. Jackson even dedicated his 2001 album to the kids friend who was killed by some Nazi teens.
Anyway, I haven't dug into this a lot. I ordered a book called Micheal Jackson Conspiracy or something like that, which are solely based on the transcripts from the case in 05. It will provide an interesting read.
I've been digging into some of his lyrics though. A lot of them seems to be about women. "Who is it" for example...he's clearly dumped and feels sorry for himself ranging to being a bit paranoid as to why she dumped him.
Dirty Diana is about a groupie...it's pretty clear.
There's a lot of them...one might think about why he wrote so many songs about girls and romance if he had none of it. I think he did. I once heard a story that his house-crew was in total shock when Lisa Marie Presley came down the stairs in a robe one morning..just out of the blue.
The lyrics to the song "Morphine" is especally interesting. He is clearly singing about taking morphine. However, no one really did take interest at the time. "He's Michael Jackson..he doesn't do drugs. He's just a boy..."
The song is bloody good too.
He is clearly pissed the fuck off at the time he wrote those lyrics...a total change from his love and peace lyrics from the early 90's. It's quite shocking..I wasn't aware he wrote such lyrics. Here he is anouncing he's taking morphine..if those lyrics are true...then some of the others also might be true.
Re: Michael Jackson's This Is It Discussion
I wouldn't put too much stock into the subject matter of the songs. Elton John sang about girls (though the songs were written by Bernie Taupin). Not sure if George Michael wrote his own stuff but it seemed to me like he was singing about girls. Not saying that means anything. It could just be other people's experiences. Michael said in the Bashir interview (I believe it was) that "Billie Jean" was writte about groupies. As he had seen his brothers go through a lot of "Billie Jeans". So he wasn't singing about a personal experience, just something he observed.
Re: Michael Jackson's This Is It Discussion
Axl S wrote:He doesn't look too bad in those photos. Obviously older but looks healthy enough.
Thats what I was thinking. I'm hoping the rehearsal footage is decent.
If/when that's released. If done correctly, that could be a bigger seller than the "Thriller" VHS documentary/video.
Re: Michael Jackson's This Is It Discussion
russtcb wrote:Axl S wrote:He doesn't look too bad in those photos. Obviously older but looks healthy enough.
Thats what I was thinking. I'm hoping the rehearsal footage is decent.
If/when that's released. If done correctly, that could be a bigger seller than the "Thriller" VHS documentary/video.
Lets not get ahead of ourselves
But yes If/when this is released it will be a big seller and definitely top of the music DVD charts and maybe near the top of the overall DVD charts. Perhaps make it a set. One Cd of unreleased material, audio of the rehearsal and a dvd of the rehearsal.
