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Re: Terminator Salvation
Yeah, should give McG an idea what most of the world thinks of his typically, really lame films.
I should be going to see this later barring any unforseen changes, although the reviews just seem to be getting worse. The biggest complaint i've seen is that it's just a straight forward action/war movie, that lacks the depth of the first two Terminator's. We'll see...
Re: Terminator Salvation
Review:
I watched Terminator: Salvation a few hours ago, and I must say, I was stunned. Stunned at how WRONG people are about this movie. Go see it. It's good. I'd go so far to say great. I actually was one of those few people that thought T3 was "okay"/"fair"/"not bad", and T4 makes it look like the steaming pile of crap it probably was, but took me all these years since 2003 to see. I can't believe that one critic actually called T3 the "good old days" in comparison to T4.
Okay, where do I begin. T4 is a vastly superior film to T3. I actually always was a little soft on T3, or not to hard on it is a better phrase. I knew what it was. T2 was such an amazing film, that it couldn't be topped for a third film. T2 was still a solid sci-fi/action masterpiece in my opinion, even in 2003. So they water it down, recycle it, and basically just "cover" T2. Which was always my issue with T3. It just seemed like squeezing more juice out of the orange that was T2. It wasn't bad, but it you won't T3, done better - see T2. That was always my attitude. It was just a retread, nothing more.
Okay, now with that said about T3, T4 actually attempts to pull off a Batman Begins. The only difference is, it stays in the same universe. It fully acknowledges T1. It's a big part of the story, basically a prequel but in the future to T1, obviously acknowledging the timeline set forth in T3 where Judgment Day was not overted and Skynet became global, as well as the character of Kate. But that's it. It totally tries to start fresh and be it's own film.
McG, who is notorious for making really really awful, and non-serious films... can for once give himself a pat on the back. Well done. The whole time watching this film, I felt like it was a film made by a fan, for the fans. But not those casual ones. Diehards. I think that's why critics are raping this film right now. Critics hate it, because it does indeed ignore setting up a new story. It doesn't need to. It's juicy already. This is what people have been waiting for for years, a Terminator set in the future, and it's as action packed, and bleak as we thought it'd be. The film starts cold. If you don't know what's going on in the Terminator world at this point, this film doesn't help you. I highly suggest at least watching T1 or T2 before going into this, and most likely T3 would certaintly help alot too, 'cause we're in that timeline. There's a few Star Wars-ish subtitles in the beginning to help along the casual or non-fan, but this film appeals to the audience that's already signed up to see it. These are the type of people that petitioned Fox to keep The Sarah Connor Chronicles alive. This is the type of film this is, and the type of fan it appeals to.
The first thing I liked about the film, was it was fresh. It was a new idea on plot. We had had three films of a hero vs. a villian, and the slasher-like film chase that ensued as Michael Biehn tried to protect in T1 and Arnold in T2 & T3. We didn't need another, besides Arnold is the best for that, and T3 was his swan song to the business, and let's leave it at that. He went out on a high note. This film doesn't try that same old tried and true concept. Instead it tries to be Apocolypse Now in the future. It's a straight up war movie. Except humans vs. machines in 2018. And for that, it gets it right. Totally right. There's tons of big epic action, like you'd expect from a Terminator film after the "big" T2 & even T3. This film goes even bigger. Sure alot of his is
but alot of it is done old school too for purists. If I had to complain about anything, it's that there's tons and tons of cool robot gadgetry going (
) But you don't know what anything is. There are no labels. It's a small detail, but i'd like to be able to identify what i'm talking about. Maybe i'm not enough of a fan to know, I dunno.
McG also does plenty of winks to the old franchise, WITHOUT going cornball and taking away like some have suggested. Okay okay, so the "come with me if you want to live" line has been beat into the ground so much, that it's getting lame, but it's passably pulled off. There's also other little winks, like
that works perfectly to the scene. Alice In Chains "Rooster" has good placement in the film, but seems to just be there cause I guess McG was a fan of the line "Ain't found a way to kill me yet". But that's really all it's there for, and I guess it ties into the character of Marcus, but it's something most people aren't going to catch imo, unless they both Terminator fans, AIC fans, and have read a couple interviews with McG about the soundtrack. The song that ironically has PERFECT placement in the film, is Guns N' Roses "You Could Be Mine" making a reappearence as a wink to T2. Ironically the song kicks more ass here, than it did in T2.
.
Granted this film is not knee-deep on character development. The characters of John, Kyle Reese, and even the memory of Sarah Connor are as fleshed out as they're gonna get in the eyes of this film, so much to the point, like I said with this film - it expects you to know their roles in the mythology. The only character that gets anything interesting, like others have stated, is the character of Marcus. He does become something really cool -
, and he's given the most interesting stuff. Straight up. This is Sam Worthington's film through and through. It should've just been his name over the title, with 'Special Guest Star' Christian Bale as John Connor. However interesting Marcus is however, they go for something simple in explaining him, just a little backstory on
. Nothing majorly complicated, and deep, and certaintly you can find much better depth than that on the now 'bullshit' cancelled Sarah Connor Chronicles.
But it's not that big of a deal really. T4 is not that kind of film. McG opted for flash, and a really stylistic look at the future, in a really cool sci-fi war epic. That's all. This isn't Shakespeare. The film is not bad because of it. This film is popcorn for the eyes and ears. This is Welcome To The Jungle in the Terminator franchise, the kick ass fist-pumping rocker. Let T2 be the Estranged, the deep song with meaning. T4 does it's own thing, while staying true to the franchise, and I loved that about it.
The music is also redone by Danny Elfman. The score is not as bad as I expected, and seems to be apart of the 'reinvention'. So those looking for the old Fiedel's cues from T1 & T2, you won't get them, short of a couple things. The scenes with the machines, to take cues from T1, specifically the electronic cue, that robotic sound. The T-1000 cue re-emerges also in the robot stuff, as does the classic "da da dat dat DUM" in the beginning and end, but those looking for the actual theme - it's not hear sadly. Fiedel's old theme, or maybe even a rearrangement by Elfman, would've added an extra kick in the ass to the ending. And naturally that ending is left WIDE OPEN for T5.
Anyways, I could go on and on. Bale gives a natural, low-brow, action-driven performance, and does it well. It's Oscar-worthy compared to Arnold, but then again he was a cyborg. I'd definitely call Bale's performance, no different than Michael Biehn in T1. He brings it all to the table, but not too much. It's not The Dark Knight. It's a war movie. Although the "yelling" stuff people are talking about, happens once in the beginning of the film, and I don't think it's Bale's fault. It sounds like it was dubbed over, and badly. There's a scene where Bale gets on a CB and calls back to HQ, and he goes from a hoarse whisper, to this all out yell, then back down to the whisper. It doesn't even sound like the same take. Sounded and looked like he did the whole take in the whisper, the middle section didn't sound right, and they synched it up badly by having him redo the speaking part in the studio way to up tempo, and threw that on top of it. It sounds like something you'd see on "The A-Team" when someone runs to a vehicle or something and no one is saying anything, and suddenly you just hear audio of Hannibal saying "Get 'em BA!" and it totally doesn't work for the scene, and sounds like it was done in a studio? That's what happens imo. It's not Bale's acting. The irony of the whole thing is how Bale went around talking about what makes Terminator good is "the human element and their stories" or whatever he said, and ironically T4 is probably the most driven Terminator film about - THE MACHINES. They are the interesting element here, and one character has alot of depth with it.
In closing, if you go into this film, just wanting that opening kick ass rock song, to "get the band back together" and restart what made, and can make Terminator so fuckin' great. This film is for you. If you're looking for T1 or T2 or even The Dark Knight of the Terminator franchise, you'll be disappointed.
3.5/5 - Pretty Good
Re: Terminator Salvation
I stopped reading when you said you thought T3 was decent/okay/fair 
Just kidding, just kidding. But I don't think people are saying the movie was bad.. it was just whatever. I enjoyed it, but it wasn't anything special as a movie imo. And I stand by thinking Bale was totally so-so at best.
IMO, the only parts I really enjoyed were when Marcus found the young Kyle Reese, and they were trying to escape from the harvester(human harvester things, whatever) things. Only thing that gave me that terminator sense. Overall it just seemed like a dumb action movie... whatever happened to classic scenes like this one? lol.
[youtube]AeV-DI09Q3w&eurl=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php%3Ftopic_id%3D93555%26currentpage%3D2&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
And what was up with Connor's wife? She was such a bad role -_-
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: Terminator Salvation
I stopped reading when you said you thought T3 was decent/okay/fair
Just kidding, just kidding. But I don't think people are saying the movie was bad.. it was just whatever. I enjoyed it, but it wasn't anything special as a movie imo. And I stand by thinking Bale was totally so-so at best.
IMO, the only parts I really enjoyed were when Marcus found the young Kyle Reese, and they were trying to escape from the harvester(human harvester things, whatever) things. Only thing that gave me that terminator sense. Overall it just seemed like a dumb action movie... whatever happened to classic scenes like this one? lol.
[youtube]AeV-DI09Q3w&eurl=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php%3Ftopic_id%3D93555%26currentpage%3D2&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]And what was up with Connor's wife? She was such a bad role -_-
HaHa, I love that scene. I need to buy the first Terminator. I own the second and third ones on DVD and I think I have the first one on VHS at my parents' house, but I don't own a VHS player so it's useless to me. I would buy it on Blu-ray but I've heard some pretty mediocre stuff about the T1 and T2 Blu's (not much different than upconverted DVD).
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: Terminator Salvation
Axlin08,
I've got a question about Arnold's appearance. I know they CGIed him into it, but I hope they didn't use current old geezer Arnold. It would make more sense for them to use a picture from the first Terminator movie for the CGI. Is that what they did?
Re: Terminator Salvation
And what was up with Connor's wife? She was such a bad role -_-
Yeah, I agree on that. Kate served no purpose to the film. It's all the more strange that they cast Bryce Dallas Howard in the role. I don't know if Claire Danes didn't want to reprise her role, but it was a bit of a weird moment. So Claire Danes who's older (I think) than Howard, plays 'younger' Kate in T3, yet the younger actress, plays 'older' Kate in T4? Danes could've easily reprised her role (just for continuity purposes), and done the same thing as Howard. Kate just seemed to be there for the sake of being there. It's not a perfect film, but that was one place where the ball was dropped. Kate
and I don't think they acknowleged it, other than the obvious way to tell. She also had very few lines, and really was just there to be a doctor on hand for Connor's underground Resistence. They could've easily put any actress, or have Howard just play an all different character - the doc - and no one would've known the difference.
Other than acknowledging Skynet being global, and Kate just being there... it's really the only acknowledgment to T3, and frankly, that seems to be her only purpose there is to set the T3 timeline.
Axlin08,
I've got a question about Arnold's appearance. I know they CGIed him into it, but I hope they didn't use current old geezer Arnold. It would make more sense for them to use a picture from the first Terminator movie for the CGI. Is that what they did?
They did a very good job with it imo. Arnold supposedly came in, and they did a CGI test of his face and bone structure, and they went from there bringing in a body builder of similar structure to put the face over, a guy who played Arnold in a biographical film. They then apparently went back with current Arnold and his real life structure, and 'younged' him up to look, really really close, almost identical to Arnold circa 1984. He's
.
I'm not a big CGI fan, and I thought they did a good job with it. It looks 99% like the real thing. Like T1 Arnold actually kicks some ass in the film. Naturally though, it doesn't take long before he gets messed up. Otherwise Arnold could've gotten a paycheck for his likeness.
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: Terminator Salvation
I watched T2 today. I am convinced it's the best action movie ever made. Kickass action, great humor, and a hell of a story. Then again, I have a rather large nostalgia connection to it since I grew up with it in the same way that I grew up with Burton's Batman movies. I even dressed up as the Terminator one year for Halloween. My mom did a hell of a job with my costume, which was based on this action figure:
- Communist China
- Rep: 130
Re: Terminator Salvation
Having watched T1 last night I gotta take issue with saying Bale's low-brow performance was on par with Michael Biehn. Biehn does an amazing job in T1, and is so much more than just an action actor. Bale looked like Vin Diesel when comparing T4 to Biehn in T1.
Re: Terminator Salvation
I prefer T1 too as I think it has a better dramatic story. I'd give Bale a break as the screenwriters of T4 wrote such gems as Primeval and Catwoman, but they did somehow manage to write The Game, which was good. Although Fincher directing the film probably had something to do with that. Has he ever directed an awful film?
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: Terminator Salvation
I prefer T1 too as I think it has a better dramatic story. I'd give Bale a break as the screenwriters of T4 wrote such gems as Primeval and Catwoman, but they did somehow manage to write The Game, which was good. Although Fincher directing the film probably had something to do with that. Has he ever directed an awful film?
Yes, see Alien 3.
