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Re: If the Skwerl
Axlin08 wrote:Yeah, but to acknowledge that the album was hurt by piracy, is to acknowledge that the album's material was crappy. Of which, I do not agree.
Only in a case where people were turned off by the cruddy material, can piracy hurt an album's sales.
No, I think you have it right. YOU and a few others don't think the material is crappy. Joe Public thinks it sucks.
Alot of people who do buy albums, wouldn't have heard all the positives about this album i.e "There Was A Time", "Better", "Street Of Dreams" ect... they made their decision not to buy it based on the negative PR not because they didn't like the album.
Here in the UK for example, the biggest radio coverage we got around the release time on a major/popular station was "Shackler's Revenge" being played for two minutes before the host cut it off and said "that's enough of that".
Re: If the Skwerl
The first single didn't flop as much as you like to point it out.
No it didn't top the hot 100 chart, or hit it at all in fact. But "rock" songs these days rarely do. Maybe a ballad here and there, but it's filled with pop and r&b songs. So before you point that out, it's a useless argument.
The song charted well on the mainstream rock chart for some time. Without a video, promotion, interviews. It, like the album, was released and left to fight for itself.
Tell that to Nickleback and Coldplay. Also tell that to Carlos Santana who is older than everyone in GnRland.
It's a completely valid point, but one that the faithful supporters like to dismiss because, well, quite frankly it buries their point.
Re: If the Skwerl
Axlin08 wrote:Plus, with the fact most radio stations allow internet requests, most fanboys of artists do the requesting online, and slam the radio station with internet requests.
It helps every other artist.
GNR's fans dropped the ball, because their numbers are gone. Only a select few diehards consider this GN'R. The majority has spoken, and they don't support Axl Rose-solo as Guns N' Roses. Simple as that.
do you remember 2006 when the better DEMO charted on the radio?
axl still had a lot of people backing him up right then and there. but somehow it all went astray.
See, here's the thing. I truly believe enough people were backing him up right through the release of this record. Radio stations across the country debuted the single at 6am the day it came out, they played the album in full the weekend it came out. The album was made available for download on Rock Band. These aren't things that happen with every release for every band. The mainstream media was primed for a Guns N' Roses comeback but all the momentum was quickly lost when nothing was done to support the singles, album, etc. Why should radio stations and the general public care when it doesn't seem like Axl does? I'm not saying Axl doesn't care, I'm just saying that's the public perception.
Re: If the Skwerl
Illegal internet downloaders are not radio callers.
Plus, with the fact most radio stations allow internet requests, most fanboys of artists do the requesting online, and slam the radio station with internet requests.
It helps every other artist.
GNR's fans dropped the ball, because their numbers are gone. Only a select few diehards consider this GN'R. The majority has spoken, and they don't support Axl Rose-solo as Guns N' Roses. Simple as that.
If this was a real Guns album, it would've been huge. The audience is starved for it. It could just been 14 remixes of My World, and people would've cummed all over it.
So you're saying that GnR fanboys didn't bury stations with requests? I remember numerous threads for a week or so begging people to call, e-mail, and vote online for CD. Are you saying all other fans do it and not GnR fans?
If this was a real Guns album, yes, it would have done significantly better. We all know that (even the crazy fanboys acknowledge this).
Re: If the Skwerl
buzzsaw wrote:Axlin08 wrote:Yeah, but to acknowledge that the album was hurt by piracy, is to acknowledge that the album's material was crappy. Of which, I do not agree.
Only in a case where people were turned off by the cruddy material, can piracy hurt an album's sales.
No, I think you have it right. YOU and a few others don't think the material is crappy. Joe Public thinks it sucks.
Alot of people who do buy albums, wouldn't have heard all the positives about this album i.e "There Was A Time", "Better", "Street Of Dreams" ect... they made their decision not to buy it based on the negative PR not because they didn't like the album.
Here in the UK for example, the biggest radio coverage we got around the release time on a major/popular station was "Shackler's Revenge" being played for two minutes before the host cut it off and said "that's enough of that".
So TWAT, Better, and The Blues never leaked? I thought they did. People had access to the best material. They just didn't like it.
Re: If the Skwerl
faldor wrote:The first single didn't flop as much as you like to point it out.
No it didn't top the hot 100 chart, or hit it at all in fact. But "rock" songs these days rarely do. Maybe a ballad here and there, but it's filled with pop and r&b songs. So before you point that out, it's a useless argument.
The song charted well on the mainstream rock chart for some time. Without a video, promotion, interviews. It, like the album, was released and left to fight for itself.
Tell that to Nickleback and Coldplay. Also tell that to Carlos Santana who is older than everyone in GnRland.
It's a completely valid point, but one that the faithful supporters like to dismiss because, well, quite frankly it buries their point.
Name me one "ROCK" song by any of those artists you mentioned. Coldplay hasn't put out anything that's rocked ever. If you want Axl to start writing the quality of crap that Nickelback writes then you're on your own there. I'll pass on that. And Carlos Santana collaborated with pop stars to hit the hot 100. I see you're laying the groundwork for Slash's solo album. Again, you're missing the point. NO ROCK songs chart on the hot 100 these days. To say "Chinese Democracy" was a failure because it didn't is a baseless and ridiculous argument. One you can't seem to get over.
Re: If the Skwerl
LIf people downloaded the album, liked it, but didn't want to buy it, the singles would have done better because those people would have still supported the songs they liked.
Discuss.
I think alot of us can agree "Estranged" is one of our favourite songs, it didn't do too well as a single...
Re: If the Skwerl
See, here's the thing. I truly believe enough people were backing him up right through the release of this record. Radio stations across the country debuted the single at 6am the day it came out, they played the album in full the weekend it came out. The album was made available for download on Rock Band. These aren't things that happen with every release for every band. The mainstream media was primed for a Guns N' Roses comeback but all the momentum was quickly lost when nothing was done to support the singles, album, etc. Why should radio stations and the general public care when it doesn't seem like Axl does? I'm not saying Axl doesn't care, I'm just saying that's the public perception.
honestly, the fact that he didn't promote this album doesn't bother me that much really. it's the quality/production/final product. if the music is good and sounds nice there will be people buying the record. and i will buy it eventually but it will be just because, and that's disappointing to me. it's disappointing that i would rather listen to live versions of the songs on the album than the actual studio version. 
Re: If the Skwerl
buzzsaw wrote:faldor wrote:The first single didn't flop as much as you like to point it out.
No it didn't top the hot 100 chart, or hit it at all in fact. But "rock" songs these days rarely do. Maybe a ballad here and there, but it's filled with pop and r&b songs. So before you point that out, it's a useless argument.
The song charted well on the mainstream rock chart for some time. Without a video, promotion, interviews. It, like the album, was released and left to fight for itself.
Tell that to Nickleback and Coldplay. Also tell that to Carlos Santana who is older than everyone in GnRland.
It's a completely valid point, but one that the faithful supporters like to dismiss because, well, quite frankly it buries their point.
Name me one "ROCK" song by any of those artists you mentioned. Coldplay hasn't put out anything that's rocked ever. If you want Axl to start writing the quality of crap that Nickelback writes then you're on your own there. I'll pass on that. And Carlos Santana collaborated with pop stars to hit the hot 100. I see you're laying the groundwork for Slash's solo album. Again, you're missing the point. NO ROCK songs chart on the hot 100 these days. To say "Chinese Democracy" was a failure because it didn't is a baseless and ridiculous argument. One you can't seem to get over.
OK. I own this point. Even though I don't like either band, that is what "Rock" music is today. Let's move on.
How many "shitty" songs did better than CD and Better did on the "Rock" charts. Prove to me that the public liked the singles, because all the evidence I've seen suggests that even the "Rock" fans didn't get on board with either single. I remeber a time where CD and better were both on the "Rock" chart right around #20. Explain to me how that is success?
Re: If the Skwerl
buzzsaw wrote:LIf people downloaded the album, liked it, but didn't want to buy it, the singles would have done better because those people would have still supported the songs they liked.
Discuss.
I think alot of us can agree "Estranged" is one of our favourite songs, it didn't do too well as a single...
You're right. It was released after the grunge era started. I'm not going to go back and look it up, but unless proven otherwise, I'm going to assume that Estranged did better than either single off of CD. I'm not sure what your point is.
