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- WeTheLiving
- Rep: 10
Re: 'Chinese Democracy' Officially Drops out of the Billboard Top 200
How do you figure they would've sold more? Do tell...
Man, some of you guys think the GNR name held more clout than it did. They were the biggest band in the world for about 2-3 years. And the majority of their cred was really off one album. This is how the whole argument started. They are not and have never been on the same level of Zeppelin or The Stones.
You guys have tried to discredit this new lineup and Axl as much as you can, to ridiculous lengths. That's fine. Whatever. But at first I thought some of you were just disgruntled. But as the days go on and I hear your arguements that GNR was never considered uncool, the media is in a conspiracy to discredit them (Bono, you were kind of sounding like Axl there), that the 500,000 albums CD did sell was a "built-in" number of people buying the album only because of the GNR name, and not actually knowing it was a new band so it really doesn't count, and Buzz proclaiming himself the keeper of the original bands legacy like it was the holy grail or he was Gandolf, has made me realize that some of you are truly delusional. You're like a husband who can't get over his ex-wife... 20 years after the divorce.
This isn't 1991. There are not a huge number of people who will buy an album just because of the GNR name.
If the GNR name doesnt carry the weight that you claim it never did, and others say it did and does, then how did this band tour rather succesfully (relatively speaking, especially in europe) before it even had one album's worth of material published? Also, how did it manage to sell 500k copies in the US, when relatively speaking, the singles bombed? It had a pop in sales right out of the gate while simultaneously having a relatively unsucessful first single, and a totally unsucessfull second single. In my opinion, the only thing that explains this contradictory success/failure is the recognition of the brand name GNR. What else accounts for filling concerts with no released material, and selling albums with unsuccesfull material? After the first burst in sales, continued sales would be based upon the material itself, sales died rather abruptly. However, I think this band is a good band, but its not recieved as GNR.
The original GNR was viewed as the heir to the throne of the Stones and Zep. Nirvana did'nt knock them off, they were always the biggest band in the world, it just became fashionable to hate success and hate life due to grunge. But GNR was filling arenas until they stopped touring, no?
Re: 'Chinese Democracy' Officially Drops out of the Billboard Top 200
Give it a rest. I told you flat out how it was around here. That's how it was. Gn'R never lost steam or interest around here. I thought we'd aknowledge the fact that this has alot to do with where you lived at the time. So sorry your uncool area thought Gn'R was uncool. Never happend here. Get over it. They stopped being productve so yes naturally people moved on to others things. Gn'R was too big to be hurt by grunge. It had little to no impact on them at the time. Had Gn'R put out a true new Guns N' Roses album in 1995 or 1996 you honestly think the world would've turned their back on it. That's a delusional thought process Fuck sakes read the way the media builds up Cobain today. They say him and Nirvana came in and wiped out all the bands from the 80's and they throw Gn'R into that group as well when it's fucking so untrue. Gn'R thrived durring that era the way very few bands from the 80's did. Gn'R STOPPED being productive. END OF STORY. They did themselves in not the music scene, not the conjured up bullshit that the media was writting about. It's so fucking fake man. U2 never gets lumped in with those "80's" bands cause they were not considerd hair metal. Lazy fucking journalists lump Gn'R into that glam hair metal genre cause when writing about Nirvana and the grunge scene the article has much more punch and impact if a band like Gn'R's demise came about from grunge.
You're being so fucking dense here it's not even funny. I clearly pointed out there were people who bought the new Gn'R knowing who was in the band. It's fucking moronic though to sit here and think that EVERYBODY knows who's in and who's not when clearly I know people who bought the album thinking they were back together. That's just me for God's sake. I'm pretty sure there are others in this world who thought the same. You're living in an online bubble. People in the real world dont' give a flying fuck to check out on a daily basis who's in and who's out of Gn'R. The average Joe sees a new Gn'R album and thinks "Cool I'll buy that" without a second thought . the only dellusional person here is you who seems to think the world is as intune to the Gn'R saga as we are. Do you fucking realize how many people have asked me since CD came out if Slash is back in the band. Wake up man.
And YES there are alot of peole in 2008/2009 who will buy a new Guns N' Roses album based on the name when they see somthing new on display in a store. To think nobody bought this album based on the Gn'R name alone and that the name had no part it..... wow dude you're so in denial.
Also you seriously need some reading comprehension skills. At no point did I ever say the 500 000 copies was based soley on the name. You sound like an idiot to even try and twist my words to suggest that. yeah I'm so fucking stupid that I think every person who bought that abum was ignorant to the fact Slash wasn't in the band.
You'd be equally ignorant and even more so to think that everybody who bought that album knew who the band consisted of. There was without a doubt some arbitrary built in number where sales were based of the Gn'R name and nothing more. I can't make it any more clear than that. If you dont' get that than holy fuck.
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah....
Yeah. They were popular in Canada and all around the world. Whoopdie-fucking-doo. You've made it very clear they were very popular where you live, amongst your friends and highscool. Congratulations. That's not what I was talking about. Or the big media conspiracy that's out to destroy GNR for the sake of lord Cobain. You can let it go now
And Nope, never said people were intuned to the GNR saga in my "online bubble" because most people in the real world don't give a flying fuck about GNR enough to just buy their album because their name is on it. Maybe you should wake up. Which is what my original point was until you got your feelings hurt that I dare say that people thought a Slash era GNR was uncool. You have gone out of your way (along with a few others) to bash the new lineup and album. Every subject. Every thread. I'm telling you how it was here. It obviously wasn't like that in Canada, but it was here. And this was during the UYI period, not after. Sorry.
The album sold 2 million copies. And I'm sure there were people who bought the album just based on their love of GNR and Axl -- Then again, most of those people DO know what's up with GNR. The sales also had a lot to do with his music. Sorry. GNR isn't a band people are going to go out of their way to buy an album for no reason other than "GNR put out a new record." With all do respect to everyone you know who are apparently a representation to how everyone else in the world thinks...
Re: 'Chinese Democracy' Officially Drops out of the Billboard Top 200
If the GNR name doesnt carry the weight that you claim it never did, and others say it did and does, then how did this band tour rather succesfully (relatively speaking, especially in europe) before it even had one album's worth of material published? Also, how did it manage to sell 500k copies in the US, when relatively speaking, the singles bombed? It had a pop in sales right out of the gate while simultaneously having a relatively unsucessful first single, and a totally unsucessfull second single. In my opinion, the only thing that explains this contradictory success/failure is the recognition of the brand name GNR. What else accounts for filling concerts with no released material, and selling albums with unsuccesfull material? After the first burst in sales, continued sales would be based upon the material itself, sales died rather abruptly. However, I think this band is a good band, but its not recieved as GNR.
The original GNR was viewed as the heir to the throne of the Stones and Zep. Nirvana did'nt knock them off, they were always the biggest band in the world, it just became fashionable to hate success and hate life due to grunge. But GNR was filling arenas until they stopped touring, no?
1 - I never said at any point their name never carried any weight. It did for about 3 years. But their popularity was eroding. I know people want to use album sales only when it suits them, but UYI sold half of what AFD did. Which was still a big fucking number. And people were criticizing them. And I've never questioned their popularity around the world.
2 - The 2002 tour really wasn't successful. Unless half empty arenas are what you call successful. And from my memory a lot of people showed up thinking Slash was still in the band. Maybe you guys are under the illusion that if the original band got back together they could sell out stadiums...
3 - Chinese Democracy the single did pretty well on radio. Considering. As did the album. It wasn't giant. But it didn't bomb. And if people refused to accept it as GNR but bought the album anyway because of the GNR name... That kind of makes no sense. 
Again, I'm not going down the "GNR was uncool" road... You think whatever you want to think about why GNR was looked on so unfavorably... Peoples hatred of success or the media conspiracy. Have at it.
- metallex78
- Rep: 194
Re: 'Chinese Democracy' Officially Drops out of the Billboard Top 200
In January 1993, GN'R played the largest outdoor concert ever staged in Australia at the time, so grunge and Nirvana had no impact on GN'R's popularity. Allot of people still gave a fuck about the band regardless of music trends going on.
- WeTheLiving
- Rep: 10
Re: 'Chinese Democracy' Officially Drops out of the Billboard Top 200
The tour was successful considering the band had no album out. What im saying is, there is no way to even fill up an arena half-way, while having NO MATERIAL released unless there is something else drawing the crowd in. Its not like you can get a bunch or random guys and throw a concert and fill it up half-way with nothing from that band on the radio or no album out to let the world know you exist. The only thing that can explain this phenomenon is name recognition. This isn't detracting from this version of GNR, because at the point in time prior to CDs release there was nothing to detract from, save their live performances because there was no material yet.
Like metallex78 said, this band was popular despite music trends. And even though UYI didnt match appetite in sales, GNR was the biggest band on planet earth in terms of album sales and touring. It just became hip in some circles to "understand" GNR was dated. If they played that huge Australia gig 2 years after UYI was released, that band still had some gas left in terms of commercial success.
Re: 'Chinese Democracy' Officially Drops out of the Billboard Top 200
They say Grunge happened overnight, but it really didn't. It changed the balance completely on the weight scale, but it still took a few years before the hair bands packed their bags and left the scene. It's not like it was one day here, the next day gone. If GNR had toured in 97-98 for example, the crowds coming out would probably be significantly less than in 93.
GNR also drags people out today because of something called nostalgia. Plus, GNR drew interest from 98-99 onwards almost like a dead musician draws a whole new crowd after his/hers passing. GNR was dead. It's sort of cooler that way.
Re: 'Chinese Democracy' Officially Drops out of the Billboard Top 200
Axlin08 wrote:If GN'R had put out an album in 1996, with a bit of an altered sound, but traditional flavor, like Metallica's Load... it would've done the same numbers.
That album would have never happened. That's why it didn't. And that's why those guys aren't together anymore.
If UYI was released a year later it would have sold half of what it did in 91-92.
It would've sold HALF?
I don't understand that logic at all. Grunge had already hit when the UYI albums were released, AIC's Facelift had been out a year, Nirvana's Bleach had been out for a couple years, and Nevermind was coming out, as well as Pearl Jam's Ten.
If GN'R was so weak, and grunge (the new rock) was all so powerful, and MTV was calling the shots, then UYI would've never been shown in the first place in '91, and GN'R so promoted. If people weren't interested in GN'R, they wouldn't have bought the album.
Grunge was already there, no different than in 1992. If anything sales would've been MORE because hype for the next GN'R would've just grew bigger going into 1992, versus 1990-91 during production and actual release.
If GN'R was so uncool and so unpopular, MTV would've never continued the extensive coverage of the UYI world tour, and they wouldn't have kept airing video exclusives, and they wouldn't have hyped stuff like the November Rain & Don't Cry videos.
The only time I remember when GN'R had really kind of come and gone, was when the Estranged video dropped, and by that point everyone had just moved on. UYI2 had been out for three years, and people had moved on, and on top of that the video was lame.
I'm sure some people had moved on to new things, with a non-working GN'R (short of TSI & the Sympathy cover single).
I just don't buy how GN'R were uncool and dead. The NEW Guns went gold without any promo and any original band members in 2008. GN'R with Paul on rhythm, if they could've collaborated with a concentrated effort, released around 1996, would've been on par with Metallica's Load. GN'R still was immensely popular. Maybe not 'rule the world' popular, but fuck, Metallica ain't been that since the Black album.
Re: 'Chinese Democracy' Officially Drops out of the Billboard Top 200
Honestly, I think it would have sold the same because it would have still the drawing card of being the album that followed AFD and fans would wonder how the band had progressed. They would have missed out on the T2 tie in and that would have cost them some sales.
If they would have released UYI as one disc the sales would have definitely been in the 15+ million dollar range.
Re: 'Chinese Democracy' Officially Drops out of the Billboard Top 200
Axlin, wtf are you talking about?
No one flipped a switch and said what was cool or uncool. And stop using grunge. It had nothing to do with it. The entire music scene changed. UYI era took a huge hit on GNR's cred. If you don't think so, fine. But the album was released before that turn, and hair bands were still successful... Those hair bands are part of what made GNR so big and great, because they were a real band with great kickass music in a sea of mediocrity. They were basically the only "big" band like that... I would even call them the first grunge band... But rock music got relevant again starting in '92 and destroyed shit metal. GNR weren't the main real rock band on the block anymore. And their image to a large extent was not cool -- I remember fans fighting over that image on the RS.com boards back in 2000! It wasn't the raw look and sound everyone fell in love with. But most importantly, they still put out great music. That's why UYI sold well. They WERE popular, but it was not the same. THEY WERE NOT THE SAME. and they weren't treated the same.
For the other responses -- Again, I have never questioned GNR's international appeal.
And half empty arenas is not a sucessful tour. Sorry. It's just not. The GNR name couldn't sell those arenas out even with a lot of people thinking it was the original band. Album or no album.
