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Re: First Listen: Green Day's '21st Century Breakdown'
Von wrote:russtcb wrote:Did I miss something?
I didn't realize it was a page back when I made the comment, but I wanted to clarify what I was referring to. I don't like that kind of language on this site. Period.
Axlin08 wrote:With that said... Gay Day fans should like it. It's totally them. Fag.
Kind of hypocritcal from a Guns N' Roses board, supporting a band with a clearly racist and homophobic song.
A couple of facts...
1) It's not homophobic when you refer to straight people as fags, like I love to do.
2) Yeah, it's pretty lame to refer gays as such, and I have never done so, nor will I ever. I don't support it, but at the same time I also don't support censorship in a satrical and comedy manner.
3) I figured the fact that I mentioned the great, late, and gay Freddie Mercury must be spinning in his grave, a negative comment towards Green Day being compared to Queen, would reinforce the humor in the song being fag, and also make it very clear that it's not homophobic.
4) I think it's very gay that I have to explain all of this. I suggest a sense of humor, and to also not pick specific words out of statements, throw them out of context, simply because I insulted your beloved Green Day.
I don't think this is about homophobia at all, because it clearly wasn't homophobic. Your hiding behind the argument, because I attacked Green Day.
1) It's homophobic and ignorant to use the word when describing anyone, regardless of what you perceive their sexual orientation to be. It's not cool to call white people the N word, either.
2) It's neither satirical nor comedic. It's hate speech and unacceptable.
3) Freddie Mercury was bisexual and, like it's already been said, that's a pisspoor excuse that actually does more harm than good.
4) I have quite the sense of humor. I will not tolerate hateful, derogatory generalizations about any group of people. I could give a shit what your opinion of Green Day is. I don't go out of my way to stay current on the band's goings on. I was a fan in the '90s and happened to be impressed with their last album. If you've gained anything from my posts on these boards, instead of being immersed in your own self-congratulatory world of two-facedness and backpeddling bullshit, you'd realize I have never tolerated this blatant use of HATE SPEECH. I'm not hiding behind anything. I'm in plain site.
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Re: First Listen: Green Day's '21st Century Breakdown'
Billy Joe Armstrong is bisexual, isn't he?
Re: First Listen: Green Day's '21st Century Breakdown'
Then by that same logic, go through the Rihanna thread and delete every single post you made that didn't support what Chris Brown did.
Seriously, that's a pretty bad statement when you were on the other side of the fence in another conversation. Or is it just relative upon your opinions? If you don't like domestic abuse, then that argument is bad. If you like using gay-slurs, then that argument is good.
How does a man beating up a woman, and using the word 'fag' in a comedic manner to describe a weak rock song equal the same thing?
This is the problem with the politically correct world, when we correlate senseless attacks, to using verbal words. Even if I had said fag in the most hateful way possible, directed at every gay out there, it's still not equal to Chris kicking Rihanna's ass. Period.
And i've got a weak argument... 
This is a classic example of what not to do when arguing. Just because you referenced Freddie Mercury (and he's gay) doesn't mean it makes you not homophobic or takes out the offense of any of your statements. It doesn't reinforce the statement, it actually makes it worse.
I don't see how this is throwing it out of context when you called all Green Day fans gay. That's clearly offensive and I'm sure offensive to some people on this board as they are themselves, Green Day fans.
I would like you to explain to me, how referencing a great, gay (bisexual, like that means anything) legendary artist, in a positive manner, which I truely love the man, considering the fact I DIDN'T BRING QUEEN UP, the fuckin' article does. I'm saying it pisses in the face of greatness.
I feel supporting this, and calling GD fans gay, and the song fag, shows that it's not, obviously homophobic. If you disagree, you disagree.
And if Green Day fans take offense at being called gay - it's because they're homophobic themselves. What's offensive about being called gay? There's nothing wrong with the orientation, and it should be accepted and tolorated.
Axlin08 wrote:Von wrote:russtcb wrote:Did I miss something?
I didn't realize it was a page back when I made the comment, but I wanted to clarify what I was referring to. I don't like that kind of language on this site. Period.
Kind of hypocritcal from a Guns N' Roses board, supporting a band with a clearly racist and homophobic song.
A couple of facts...
1) It's not homophobic when you refer to straight people as fags, like I love to do.
2) Yeah, it's pretty lame to refer gays as such, and I have never done so, nor will I ever. I don't support it, but at the same time I also don't support censorship in a satrical and comedy manner.
3) I figured the fact that I mentioned the great, late, and gay Freddie Mercury must be spinning in his grave, a negative comment towards Green Day being compared to Queen, would reinforce the humor in the song being fag, and also make it very clear that it's not homophobic.
4) I think it's very gay that I have to explain all of this. I suggest a sense of humor, and to also not pick specific words out of statements, throw them out of context, simply because I insulted your beloved Green Day.
I don't think this is about homophobia at all, because it clearly wasn't homophobic. Your hiding behind the argument, because I attacked Green Day.
1) It's homophobic and ignorant to use the word when describing anyone, regardless of what you perceive their sexual orientation to be. It's not cool to call white people the N word, either.
2) It's neither satirical nor comedic. It's hate speech and unacceptable.
3) Freddie Mercury was bisexual and, like it's already been said, that's a pisspoor excuse that actually does more harm than good.
4) I have quite the sense of humor. I will not tolerate hateful, derogatory generalizations about any group of people. I could give a shit what your opinion of Green Day is. I don't go out of my way to stay current on the band's goings on. I was a fan in the '90s and happened to be impressed with their last album. If you've gained anything from my posts on these boards, instead of being immersed in your own self-congratulatory world of two-facedness and backpeddling bullshit, you'd realize I have never tolerated this blatant use of HATE SPEECH. I'm not hiding behind anything. I'm in plain site.
1) Nobody ever said it was, and i've never even said the 'N' word in my entire life directed at anybody, white or black. I've also never called anyone gay - fag - either. But i've been called faggot many times, in a non-comedic sense, in a very hateful sense, and funny... I got over it.
2) That's YOUR opinion. Get back to me when black comedians stop using the word nigger, and gay comedians stop using the word fag. If you're not down with that, then i've got to tip my hat to you, you actually are supporting your point and stance, and i'll respect the hell out of that.
3) Ironically this is a homophobic statement coming out of your own mouth. Only a homophobe would feel the need to mention Freddie was 'bi', like it's 'gay lite' or some shit. If i'm a homophobe, then so must you be.
4) I'm in plain site too. When have I ever been two-faced? Anything beyond providing factual evidence, makes you look like nothing more than a liar pushing censorship, because of YOUR opinions.
I never once referred to gay people as fags, not once.
Re: First Listen: Green Day's '21st Century Breakdown'
I guess I'll step in here.....
The term 'fag' is a very general term. Not sure how long its been in use, but I remember as a kid everyone using such gems as "Hulk Hogan is a fag". Well, obviously he's not a fag. For years the term went beyond a derogatory gay slur and just became a word in the pop culture lexicon.
While racial and homophobic slurs are against the rules, when it comes to the term fag, its basically just a judgment call on a case by case basis. The term is used here, and if you search it, there is a page of threads with the word in it.
The only time I have noticed it used in a truly derogatory term was when nugdafied was flaming in the U2 thread. Now someone could say, "Axlin08 did it in this Green Day thread. Isn't it the same thing?"
Not really. He seemed to be using the term to mainly just hammer home his dislike of Green Day, and of course put a bit of emphasis on the word fag.
Like I said, you have to take into consideration the context its used in each time you see it. Is it flame bait, or just general conversation?
I can see why gays(or people with gay friends) would take offense to any situation its used in, but we don't live in a world viewed through rainbow glasses. The word lost a lot of its power years ago, and I'm not really interested in giving it more of that power back.
Re: First Listen: Green Day's '21st Century Breakdown'
How does a man beating up a woman, and using the word 'fag' in a comedic manner to describe a weak rock song equal the same thing?
You said-
Kind of hypocritcal from a Guns N' Roses board, supporting a band with a clearly racist and homophobic song.
So, by that logic, it is clearly hypocritical as well to not support Chris Brown's actions since you are also a fan of Axl, who has been involved in many domestic abuse suites himself.
And if Green Day fans take offense at being called gay - it's because they're homophobic themselves. What's offensive about being called gay? There's nothing wrong with the orientation, and it should be accepted and tolorated.
Also weak. People like to be called what they are. They don't like it when people call them something they are not. It just doesn't just imply to being gay either. If people call you a pussy, you may take offense to it if you don't see yourself that way. If people call you a geek because you get good grades you may take offense if you really aren't a geek and just happen to be able to get good grades without trying.
So if you call Green Day fans gay, I'm sure a lot of them are going to take offense. Just like I take offense when people call me gay because I like GNR, it doesn't make sense for them to do that.
Re: First Listen: Green Day's '21st Century Breakdown'
3) Ironically this is a homophobic statement coming out of your own mouth. Only a homophobe would feel the need to mention Freddie was 'bi', like it's 'gay lite' or some shit. If i'm a homophobe, then so must you be.
You've trivialized and made incorrect assumptions about the sexual orientation of an artist you claim to admire and respect. I was clarifying. I don't view bisexuality as "gay lite" and never claimed to. That's the first I've heard of it and it's coming from your mouth, not mine. In fact, my clarifying Freddie Mercury's actual sexual orientation shows that I have a greater respect for different orientations and don't generalize gay to mean anything and everything not straight, which apparently you do.
EDIT: Truth be told, I do agree with James' post above me here. All I originally intended was a reminder to watch out and curb the (perceived) homophobic slurs. I then realized it was a page farther back than I thought and deleted my comment, but felt it necessary to clarify to russ what I had been referring to. Now's it's become all this. Let's just drop it at this point and try to keep in mind that our use of language, however innocent, can have the potential to alienate and hurt the other users here. It's not censorship. It's being considerate. Let's all try to be as considerate as possible. Axlin08, I have no problem with you outside of this thread and this is an unfortunate disagreement between us.
Re: First Listen: Green Day's '21st Century Breakdown'
Saikin-
I see your point now
Von-
I took offense at the 'homophobic' comment. I'm sure you were referring to the word, but I took it as 'me'. I've been very sympathetic and supportive of the homosexual community over the years, to the point of driving friends and family away from me because of it. So being called homophobic is something I take great offense by, as well as being called a racist. When you burn bridges in your life to stand up for something, and still get labeled a bigot, it can get a bit frustrating, and personal, even on an internet message board.
At the same time, i've always been a firm believer that anything can be satirized, words or situations, as long as the delivery and timing are correct. Probably the only no no is a child's molestation and/or murder, where you can go after the situation and the media circus surrounding it, but you can't make the child the subject of the satire. It just doesn't work.
And as for the Freddie thing, I hear you, but that's more my experience than your comment. I know he was bi, and i've seen TONS (way more than should be) of people when you say Freddie was 'gay', they immediately cock an attitude and say he was 'bi' like that's somehow 'less gay'. Like they take offense at you calling him a gay man, because they want to keep that out of their head because they thought he was oh so cool, until they found out about his personal life. It's like they are so homophobic that they like to pretend they don't know that. I've seen many hardcore metal fans do the same thing with Halford & Priest.
This whole thing just became a big clusterfuck of people's feelings. In the future i'll refrain from using the word, as being it's the internet, people cannot interpret tone and inflection.
