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Re: Former GN'R Manager Alan Niven Counters Axl's Claims
Axlin08 regarding the firing of Axl, Niven said:
“But the rest of the band won my heart and respect for doing that. I was prepared to do anything for them at that point. I told the band then that if they decided to find another, more reliable singer – and even if they lost their deal as a consequence – I would hang in with them. Whatever Axl says or thinks, I did not and never said: ‘Fire Axl.’
My understanding from reading that is he bascially told the rest of the band that he would stick by them regardless of what they decided to do.
The other claim Niven refuted was he had been trying to sell out his contract for a big payday. Niven then went into quite a bit of detail regarding the Geffen renegotations and how this deal was also eventually tied into the signing over of the naming rights to Axl.
I know contract details and the like are pretty boring for most fans to read about, they would rather hear the salacious juicy details of other shit that went down, but Niven pretty much left it to commentating on the couple of issues that Axl flagged about him in his online post.
I also don't think Niven's intention was to go out and assasinate the character of Axl so your expectation of a big detailed reaction from Niven may have been wishful thinking. If he wanted to do that I'm sure he could have backed the truck up and unloaded all manner of grubby details in order to cut Axl down to size. But he didn't, he put his point accross about the issues where his name was raised and that's it. I also think Niv was pretty balanced, he gave Axl credit for his talent etc, he also flagged the drug issues with the other guys and the problems it caused. I loved the quote about Slash not being able to even run a bath - lol
Also remember Classic Rock wrote the article and spun the intro the way they wanted etc. Izzy's quote of Alan being like the silent 6th member was used by them as part of the intro. Alan didn't say "I am the 6th member" etc.
Personally I would love to see Niven get pissed and just go to town "no holds barred" about anything and everything GNR related. But from my read of it, he never has and never will have any intention of damaging such a mythical legacy.
Re: Former GN'R Manager Alan Niven Counters Axl's Claims
polluxlm wrote:I can see Niven's point of view, but I can also see Axl's. In Slash's book you will also see that Guns N' Roses was pretty much Axl's project from the start. Ironically Slash joined the band as a replacement to a guy Axl fired without telling Izzy. He was always running the show and nobody ever really spoke against it. It was a mutual arrangement for everyone.
Then Niven comes and makes some decisions that, although smart on many levels, made a guy with such control issues as Axl feel threatened. He probably well knows that Niven really didn't want try to sell them out or fire him, but those are the excuses he rationalizes so that he can get rid of a profitable guy that makes him uncomfortable. Not the smartest move and behavior, but not a dictatorish move to ream the other guys either. He's not exactly Nicolas Machiavelli (although he probably read it before that contract negotiation 
).
Re: Former GN'R Manager Alan Niven Counters Axl's Claims
what niven claims seems to be true, without digging into archives, but around this time that we are talking about, doug goldstein came in and started placating Axl left and right...(from slash's book) where Niven didnt always do what Axl wished....and niven seems be the one who negotiated the deal while goldstein and Axl seemed to benifit ultimately from the end contract...sure Axl may have been the sober one and as such thought out his decisisons more but i dont think that his freinds would've anticiapted that he wouldve taken thier rights to their livelyly hood out from underneith them...goldstein was serving axl like i already said, and according to slash didnt care so much about the other guys...niv watched out for them all and kept their eyes on the prize, from what i understand of the info thats slowly coming out is that Zutaut and Niven really stuck their necks out for a bunch of reckless youths and made them millionaires when nobody else would give them the time of day..in the end we hear stories from Axl claiming that everyone was against him...well fuck he has hardly ever been a reliable singer, you dont know which axl you are gonna get until the show is over (if it even begins) for a no name band to land gigs opening for crue, aerosmith and the stones at that juncture of there carreer? let alone a renegotiated contract with one of the most shrewd label executives ever....just to be unceremoniously dumped on his ass in favor of the first nut swinger? and like he said...if he did give up a lifetime 17% royalty of the gnr catalogue...thats huge...and a benifit to the gnr guys as much as loss to his own financial security....like damn dude..not sure where i'm goin with this long ass post but i enjoy reading all these things and searching for the hidden truths....in short i dont think hes a douche or an attention seeker...jsut another guy who is directly in the know talking about his opinion on the matter and i for one appreciated reading his opinions
Fantastic post. Alot of very good, and interesting points.
I agree with Niv's assessment that Niv took care of the band, and not Axl individually. I think that was a problem on both sides however. I think we can all agree, Axl is a bit of a diva. Niv was a guy that saw all of their talents, but also felt that GN'R were being held back by an erratic and unreliable lead singer. Axl saw this as not being liked, and not being served well by someone who was not fully in his corner. Axl is right in this instance. The problem is, they turn around and hire an ass kisser in Goldstein, who serves Axl very well, but not the rest of the band. I don't think this was a conscious decision by Axl, but more of a comment on Axl being a different performer, a different person, and a different entity from the rest of the band, that has his own needs out of a manager, that the rest of the band didn't see eye-to-eye with at all.
Just like in Slash's book when Goldstein gave him some 'tough love'. And it was so uninspired and so fake, etc. I'm sure Slash's is telling the absolute truth. Because it wasn't coming from Doug's mouth, it was coming from Axl's. But this isn't Doug Goldstein, look at him he's such a douche, this is more of Doug was a manager who saw a weak link (Slash), and the tables were turned. Whereas Niv, who saw more eye-to-eye with Slash, saw Axl as the weak link, the tables were now turned, and it felt a little different being on the opposite side of the fence, and Slash's continued recklessness with his own life didn't help his image with Axl imo.
Niv was something to the band, not Axl, that the band loved. He was a homeboy. A brother in arms. A supplier, a father, a brother, whatever he needed to be for them. He wasn't the one pulling them to the side, saying "get it together", he was the one nuturing who they were, which biases alot of their points of view for them.
If you're a junkie, and you know this guy that let's you crash at his place, and hooks you up when you need it, takes care of you, cleans up your messes, and watches out for you. That's not a homeboy. That's a mother, who severly needs to discipline her irresponsible children.
Axl looked at it a bit differently imo. I think he saw it as "sure Niv takes care of us... because he sees dollar signs. Opportunity". And I see it that way too.
Niv didn't take care of GN'R the way he did, because he was just such a cool guy that wanted to play hard ball with Axl. He did it, because GN'R were an INVESTMENT in the future of one Alan Niven, and he saw Axl as the weak link that could bring it all down, because of his unpredictability. When Axl was a little pup just starting out, wanting to cancel gigs with big band acts, he was obviously a guy that was green and not really up on what to do in the music world. But Alan didn't hit the 'danger button', because he saw their potential. He hit that button, and got Axl under control, because he saw his future in jeopardy.
It was anyways, because being Niv didn't take care of the needs of ALL of the band members, he was let go when it came the right time.
I think Axl was a little bit stupid, I think the rest of the band were a little bit jaded, and I think Niv was an opportunist.
Axlin08 regarding the firing of Axl, Niven said:
“But the rest of the band won my heart and respect for doing that. I was prepared to do anything for them at that point. I told the band then that if they decided to find another, more reliable singer – and even if they lost their deal as a consequence – I would hang in with them. Whatever Axl says or thinks, I did not and never said: ‘Fire Axl.’
My understanding from reading that is he bascially told the rest of the band that he would stick by them regardless of what they decided to do.
The other claim Niven refuted was he had been trying to sell out his contract for a big payday. Niven then went into quite a bit of detail regarding the Geffen renegotations and how this deal was also eventually tied into the signing over of the naming rights to Axl.
I know contract details and the like are pretty boring for most fans to read about, they would rather hear the salacious juicy details of other shit that went down, but Niven pretty much left it to commentating on the couple of issues that Axl flagged about him in his online post.
I also don't think Niven's intention was to go out and assasinate the character of Axl so your expectation of a big detailed reaction from Niven may have been wishful thinking. If he wanted to do that I'm sure he could have backed the truck up and unloaded all manner of grubby details in order to cut Axl down to size. But he didn't, he put his point accross about the issues where his name was raised and that's it. I also think Niv was pretty balanced, he gave Axl credit for his talent etc, he also flagged the drug issues with the other guys and the problems it caused. I loved the quote about Slash not being able to even run a bath - lol
Also remember Classic Rock wrote the article and spun the intro the way they wanted etc. Izzy's quote of Alan being like the silent 6th member was used by them as part of the intro. Alan didn't say "I am the 6th member" etc.
Personally I would love to see Niven get pissed and just go to town "no holds barred" about anything and everything GNR related. But from my read of it, he never has and never will have any intention of damaging such a mythical legacy.
Very interesting points, but I see it how Axl sees it. Not out of bias, but out of my own personal perceptions on the world, and how people act. The above statement by Niven comes across as a 'fire Axl' statement.
And once that got into Axl's head, regardless of Niv's intent, perception is reality, and Axl saw a sniper in the rough aiming for his head - Niven.
I can see Niven's point of view, but I can also see Axl's. In Slash's book you will also see that Guns N' Roses was pretty much Axl's project from the start. Ironically Slash joined the band as a replacement to a guy Axl fired without telling Izzy. He was always running the show and nobody ever really spoke against it. It was a mutual arrangement for everyone.
Then Niven comes and makes some decisions that, although smart on many levels, made a guy with such control issues as Axl feel threatened. He probably well knows that Niven really didn't want try to sell them out or fire him, but those are the excuses he rationalizes so that he can get rid of a profitable guy that makes him uncomfortable. Not the smartest move and behavior, but not a dictatorish move to ream the other guys either. He's not exactly Nicolas Machiavelli (although he probably read it before that contract negotiation ).
Which is ironic to me too, why anyone didn't think Axl gaining more control with the project, WASN'T a natural progression. It was his baby to begin with, per Slash's own admission.
Slash was a Sunset Strip unemployed guitarist. Slash was looking to hitch his wagon anyway, and tried out for several bands. GN'R was just the one he stuck with, and they stuck with him. It wasn't like Axl & Izzy, a couple of boys in a band with an idea hatched for this - GUNS N' ROSES - as they called it. Slash struck a cord with THEIR idea.
Now i'm not taking ANYTHING away from the greatness of Slash and what he brought. And it disappoints me to this day that the original band was unable to continue.
But to be shocked it became Axl's ship, well... what do I say? In not in the nazi way, just it happened that way...
It just is. It was Axl's baby to begin with.
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Re: Former GN'R Manager Alan Niven Counters Axl's Claims
When you are as eccentric and egomanic as Axl, you get the control over the ship, sooner or later. Funny how the other guys, drunk and drugged-up, gave away everything, just to keep the band alive. All their efforts to save the band were turned out to be steps to destroy the band. Axl became the captain, got total control, everyone was fired or jumped off, then Mr. Rose navigated to his ship to the icebergs, claiming new beginning and progression. GN'R is a fuckin' Titanic today, the captain locked himself into his room and occasionally shouts out harsh comments about the long-gone mate and the boatmen. And doesn't do his fuckin' job, to lead the ship.
Re: Former GN'R Manager Alan Niven Counters Axl's Claims
Axl never wrote a 5000 word rant against Niven, only a couple of paragraphs of strong allegations were directed at Niven.
Alan Niven responded to these allegations and gave a pretty detailed account of what happened. I dunno why you expected him to counter every single thing Axl said 
The rest of the article was more like rock stories and reminiscing.
Re: Former GN'R Manager Alan Niven Counters Axl's Claims
When you are as eccentric and egomanic as Axl, you get the control over the ship, sooner or later. Funny how the other guys, drunk and drugged-up, gave away everything, just to keep the band alive. All their efforts to save the band were turned out to be steps to destroy the band. Axl became the captain, got total control, everyone was fired or jumped off, then Mr. Rose navigated to his ship to the icebergs, claiming new beginning and progression. GN'R is a fuckin' Titanic today, the captain locked himself into his room and occasionally shouts out harsh comments about the long-gone mate and the boatmen. And doesn't do his fuckin' job, to lead the ship.
Captain Ahab.....:cool:
