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Re: Jason Lives: FRIDAY THE 13TH
I don't hold the first F13 on a pedestal at all. In fact, I think its one of the worst horror movies of the 80s. It is effective in the sense it does a brilliant job at starting the whole 'campfire tale' trend in american horror, but other than that it falls flat. Part II is where the real franchise begins, and could have been a stand alone film itself.
Re: Jason Lives: FRIDAY THE 13TH
A truely beautiful review. 
I made an epic rant, but you even touched on some things that bothered me, and I forgot about.
With that said, I still thought it was an 'okay' film. Not near as bad as James highly accurate, brutal review.
Re: Jason Lives: FRIDAY THE 13TH
Oh yeah, we're gonna hit this piece-by-piece.
I just want to chime in that Axlin08's condemning this movie while heralding the sacrilegious, franchise killing piece of shit known as Freddy vs. Jason is really puzzling.
Why? The same things that make FvJ fail in places, are the precise same things that make F132009 fail in the same ways.
FvJ is not a perfect movie, but is a Top-5 imo.
Freddy vs. Jason is a movie that fails on all levels, disrespectful of its source material and disrespectful of its audience
Wow I couldn't disagree more. Minus bad acting, and over the top dialogue in places, Yu seemed to be as respectful as possible, while putting his own stamp on the film. I don't see where this is a big problem, it's been done before. It'd been nice securing some rights to the Paramount films, in order to make the opening have flashbacks like Freddy got, but it was made up for the fact the majority of the opening was that of a Friday The 13th and dedicated to Jason.
The only disrespect of the audience that occurs, is the Nightmare 1 & New Nightmare, and Friday 1-4 nutswingers, that think every single fuckin' entry in either franchise has to have Michael Myers-copycat Jason ("human" Jason as Friday fans call it) and "dark" Freddy. The problem is, Freddy has become an icon, something entirely different. And yes, I prefer the campy "one liner" Freddy. We've got PLENTY of dark slashers. Give Freddy a sick sense of humor, gave him something unique imo, and Robert Englund just owns it almost always.
Simply because FvJ shows more respect to the later-sequels of both franchises, and picks up after the stories of Freddy's Dead & JGTH (both better films than F132009) does not mean it's not worthy, it's bad, or it's been disrespect to it's audience. As a fan of films like Dream Warriors & Jason Lives - I dug FvJ on that level.
It features the series' worst characterization of Jason as a lumbering, Frankenstein's Monster-like creature
This I agree with. That was a bit of a misstep by Yu. Kirzinger has made it clear, he did what Ronny told him, and Sean Cunningham lobbied for Kane Hodder, to no avail. To see '80s Freddy' vs. 'Hodder Jason' would've been a fanboy dream. I wish it would've happened.
But nothing about Frankenstein Jason takes away from the movie. Jason still works, although I do roll my eyes during the cornfield kill and when Jason throws Freddy clear across Camp Crystal Lake, into the roof of another building.
who's afraid of water
Yu simply wanted to do his own thing with it. Freddy's afraid of fire, and Jason's afraid of water. Every film does their own little thing. I think where Yu screwed up, was he didn't capitalize on it - at all. He didn't use it. A waterfall is simply used to neutralize Jason, almost like the "Samhain" scene with Michael in Halloween 6: Producer's Cut. The fire thing with Freddy wasn't used at all, short of Jason Ritter & Monica Keena blowing up Crystal Lake, Riggs & Murtaugh style, for virtually no reason. Freddy kept kicking ass, and didn't seem to be phased by any of it.
but ultimately just an antihero with mommy issues.
Hate to break it to you... he's ALWAYS been an anti-hero with mommy issues. If you were rooting for Ginny, Chris & Trish in the earlier films... wow. I was kind of there for Jason. If I want to root on a true "hero", i'll go root for Loomis over on Halloween.
Freddy, reinstated in his full creepy splendor for Wes Craven's New Nightmare
That movie is so overrated. If I never hear about it again, i'll be a happy man. It never pulled me in, it never excited me. When I first watched it, I was just so happy that Craven was NEVER involved in directing the sequels. Nightmare 1 was a good movie, and I liked dark Freddy... then... but after the abysmal, rushed Freddy's Revenge, I think Freddy made a natural, organic progression, not counting the awful Freddy's Nightmares.
has been declawed and reverted back to a grimacing, catty, prime time TV host.
You mean the POPULAR Freddy, that everyone likes. Don't believe me? Dream Master did the best BO.
The script is laughable on top of being pretty much nonexistent.
Actually I thought there was TOO MUCH setup involved and an existing script. I just wanted to see Freddy & Jason get it on. I couldn't care less for the Dream Warriors-esque backstory, that was unnecessary, and half-hearted. All I could wonder if Shaye had a hand in that, because he wanted it to be more of a Nightmare 8, rather than a Friday 11. I dunno.
The execution is below par if not for the Friday the 13th flicks
Actually it probably had the most thought-out execution of ANY Friday film. I actually think this is a weakness. It should've been better, for the amount of prep-time put in to it, and the fact New Line considered it more of a big action release, rather than a low-budget horror release.
then for the unanimously well-produced Nightmare on Elm Street franchise.
There's good films and bad films in that franchise too, no matter what anyone tells you. NOES2 & New Nightmare are weakpoints. No different than Halloween, TCM & F13 all have pro & con films.
Ronny Yu is the worst person to helm either series, a shooter and not a director. The acting is unusually worse than it has to be. The characters suck asshole.
I agree with all of that 100%. FvJ in the hands of more of a "fan" of the series, could've been interesting. Then again, Adam Marcus & Jim Isaac are huge fans, and most people depise their films.
The music blows, both the score and the nu metal soundtrack
Not the strongest score ever or an Alice Cooper-influenced soundtrack, but yeah I liked it. Much more so than the lame TCM2003 & TCM:TB music stuff.
So yeah, unfortunately Roadrunner Records Presents MTV's Freddy vs. Jason: A Self-Referencial Horror Parody That Pisses on the Altars of Your '80s Horror Heroes isn't my thing.
You must've missed Dokken, The Fat Boys, Sinead O'Connor, Billy Idol, Iron Maiden, Goo Goo Dolls, Lion, Pseudo Echo, 80's Alice Cooper, and Metropolis... all of which were very poppy at that time.
FvJ's music is simply a reflection of the times, no different than previous Freddy & Jason films. At least Grahme Revell & Roadrunner contributed a soundtrack, unlike the godawful soundtrack & TCM-recycled score for F132009.
This reboot gets everything right that New Line's previous three attempts at Jason
No it doesn't. Not by a mile. Lame dialogue, average execution, and poor acting, PLAGUE F132009, no different Jason X & FvJ.
no different than even the underrated JGTH, got wrong.
JGTH got alot of things right, that F132009 didn't. It tried to be different, it tried to be a breath of fresh air in a Part IX, and had a FANTASTIC cast, including the great, underrated John D. LeMay from F13: The TV Series as a lead, as well as the great character actors Steven Williams, Steven Culp & Erin Grey.
And while it's not the best since the Final Chapter (I don't understand the hate for A New Beginning)
ANB also suffered a weak cast, and too much thought. The kills were great, and setup is good, but it's not JGTH... or Halloween III. It's not some seperation, that really shines. When they knew Feldman was not going to return for Part V, because of The Goonies, they should've just axed the Tommy Jarvis character. He was unnecessary. I can't believe for a second, that anyone at Paramount, actually thought at one time, that Tommy would become the new killer at that time, when Jason had become an icon, and was part of the horror lexicon. They should've learned their lesson after Halloween III. Some times, for the casual audience, it does boil down to certain characters. Just random guys in a hockey mask is not Jason, and not F13. If that were the case, F1380 would've aged more gracifully with Mrs. Voorhees. Instead, it's skipped over by most fans now, in favor of just kicking off with Part 2. They aren't 'F13 concept' fans, they are 'Jason' fans. The TV series would've also been more popular and warmly received, if they were 'concept' fans.
it's one of the series' best entries overall
That's an opinion, through and through. I still think this film will fall in the eyes of diehard fans in a few years, no different than TCM2003.
At least i'm taking a chance defending films like Parts 8-11, which are universally hated. But somehow to you, you view bashing F1380 as some ballsy move, when it's been falling ever since Part 2 in the eyes of fans. Why isn't defending the later sequels, ballsy for the same reason?
and has rejuvenated interest in a character and a franchise
I'm very happy for the film's success, and will remain "open minded" to future sequels. One thing I regret in my original statements, was saying I was not looking forward to Part XIII. That's a bit of an exaggeration. I'm an F13 fan through and through, no matter how awful they get, i'll be there, whether at the theater, or at the video store.
in a way that even the gimmicky marketing of Freddy vs. Jason failed to do.
You wouldn't have your beloved F132009 without FvJ, and it's success. Fact. New Line was ready to write off Jason as "unprofitable" and "maxed out" in terms of marketability after the lackluster performances of Paramount's Part VIII, and NL's JGTH & JX. The teaming of FvJ was born WAY back in the day, because they foresaw the road ending for both Freddy & Jason. FvJ was a massive commercial success, no matter how much you lie to yourself about that fact.
After it's massive success, New Line saw that both characters STILL had fuel in the tank, and the same year (2003) success of the TCM remake, renewed New Line's interest in reviving singular Freddy & Jason films in a remake or reboot format.
Once again, kiss the feet of FvJ... you have F132009 because of it. Not because of the bad-ness of FvJ, but because of positive audience reception, and BO success. FvJ SAVED both franchises.
F13 & Jason is back, and a NOES reboot is also in the works from Platinum Dunes, thanks to FvJ.
Or we could go back to the $12 million total grosses of movies like Jason X.
Although I enjoyed JGTH & JX, they still were not impressive enough to warrant continuing their formulas. Regardless of my average opinion towards F132009, i'm glad to see it at least get back to basics after the "fun depatures" of Parts VIII-X. Getting back to Crystal Lake, at least improves future chances of good films.
Re: Jason Lives: FRIDAY THE 13TH
While I do hate Freddy vs Jason with a passion, the film does contain one of the franchise's best scenes....
During a dream sequence, we see the camp counselors screwing while Jason is drowning. While we knew this had happened over 20 years ago, this was the first time it was ever truly visualized in the franchise, and this scene should have been in one of the franchise's first few films.
Not fond of Manhattan either. Lots of potential there, but I could never get over the G rated aspect of this flick. They could have shown this film in segments during episodes of Sesame Street and no one(kids or parents) would have called in to complain.
Kelly Hu was totally wasted in this flick. Should have gave her a slight makeover and handed her the starring role. A beauty pageant winner with no prior experience at acting getting to star in the new F13 would have given this film some much needed publicity.
Re: Jason Lives: FRIDAY THE 13TH
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There have been so many different directors and writers in this franchise, I'm not sure why they feel the need to ALWAYS give us the origin of this character. Does there always have to be a reason to his rhyme? How about just once, a group of people stumble upon this area and they don't have a fucking clue as to what went on at Crystal Lake? They either know beforehand, or find out in the process.
reminds me of the Final destination franchise to an extent. Each sequel has to spend 20 or 30 minutes investigating that first set of teens from the first film. Who cares? Cant an event happen that doesn't have to link to that, and cant they die without knowing about the original cast?:haha:
This is one of the main reasons I have wanted a foreign director to take over the reigns of one of these iconic franchises before its too late.
We would see a different take on the story instead of the continued rehashed drivel diluted decade after decade.
- NY Giants82
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